Hello all,
I do my lumber squaring and surfacing with a 6″ jointer and 12 1/2″ planer. I am in the process of planning out and obtaining the parts necessary to build a workbench (The Scott Landis book makes me feel like a sissy without a homemade bench). I’m going to either laminate some maple or make the front out of a single slab with some strips up front to ease dog hole installation. So, the question: I won’t be able to run the top post assembly through the planer and Veritas just came out with a jointer plane. If I buy a jointer plane will it likely sit unused in the shop post work bench construction or will I wonder how I ever lived without one or some where in between?
Matt
Replies
Matt,
If you are like me you will wonder how you ever lived without it, but then I'm a handplane addict. When did they come out with a jointer plane? I didn't see it in their latest catalog.
Mark
It's actually a number 6 fore plane (maybe technically too short to be called a jointer at 18" as opposed to 22") although their web site advertises it for smoothing and flattening large surfaces.
I was down to the store yesterday and had a look at there new #6. I looked to be a very well built tool and shared all the features of the rest of the planes in there line. As far as going and spending $300.00 CDN when I have a #6, #7 and #8 Stanleys hanging on the wall. I don't think so, but if I never I would drop the money. But first I would ask if they were comeing out with a #7 or #8.Scott C. Frankland
Was the Newfoundland Wood Worker now the Nova Scotia Wood Worker.
If you end up not using it, you can always ebay it for probably around 60-80% of the retail price.
However id wager youll end up using it more often then you think.
Matt, I picked up an old Stanley Bedrock jointer plane a few years ago at a tool for 25.00. I just figured it was a good deal. I have found it to be the solution for many problems. You don't use it all the time, but when you do, you're sure glad you have it. I would never get rid of it.
Was that a bedrock #7?
Creekwood, it's probably just taking up space on your shelf; I'd be happy to free you of that burden and let you double your original investment...
just because that's the kind of guy I am... interested?
Well, yes it is a #7, and thank you for your generous offer; but I think I'll keep it. I know I got a steal, it was at an auction in a cabinet shop that was closing. The auctioneers put together an awesome asortment of other tools. If I had had enough money at the time, I would have outfitted a complete shop for about 30% of the original cost. Some of these were older tools, and the quality was excellent. One of these days I'll find out how much that #7 is really worth.
By the way, your name, is that because you live on Pine Island, on the Gulf coast of FL?
Hey Creekwood,
Nice story on the bedrock #7, good for you. I'm glad it went to someone who apprecaites it. Imagine the tools we'd all have if we ever just "had the money at the time"!
BTW: I just came in from the shop to catch a bite of lunch... I have a 2002 Stanley collector's price guide... I'll dig it out tonight and look it up for you if you're interested.
BTW2: Yup. Pine Island, Florida, down here in God's country. Somebody has to do it!
Thanks, Pine Islander. Good place to live. Believe it or not, I'm not far from you. Arcadia, but don't hold that against me. Maybe we can chew the fat sometime. You must know Merrill over at Alva Hardwoods.
Matt,
Sissy's don't have planes either....lol
Yes, one of the fun things about a workbench is being able to plane on it. As a general rule...you can plane a board that is up to 3 times the length of the plane.
Keep us posted on your bench progress please.
Huh? Where did you hear that? You can plane a board as long as you want. One simply uses winding sticks and other straightedges to gauge progress.
One is forced to wonder about the twelve foot Medieval church doors and other large wooden items found all over Europe...
Chass,
I wish I could remember the source. I have read litterally dozens of articles(no books yet) on planing and tuning to try and develop some skill. It stuck in my mind at the time because I was trying to figure out why the different lengths for planes...ie. what is the issue the different lengths address.
I remember as a kid seeing pictures of the Medieval craftsman planning large boards...usually with two people. I don't remember how long the planes were.
Trust me 'bro you can flatten as long a board (or benchtop) as you want with a standard no. 7 (22 or so inches long).
I've been known to pull a piece of string from end to end on very long boards (I've built a few sets of church doors) to get a feel for the amount of bow or swale to an edge. You can just tack the string down with a thumbtack or a brad. Of course, you do this before you make the final crosscut to finished length. Slightly flatten the arris at both ends of the board (make a heavy chamfer) and drive a small brad on each end, pull the string and you've got it. Make some reference marks and start planing.
As for flattening a face, judicious use of winding sticks will get you where you need to be.
Hey Creekwood,
Nice! I like Arcadia. Actually, I think my wife and I are heading up toward your neck of the woods one of these Saturdays to look at antiques. (Notice I didn't say 'buy', but don't tell her that.)
Of course I know Merrill... isn't he great? A couple of years ago I visited all the hardwood dealers I could find in south/central Florida... Alva Hardwoods is by far the best in my opinion. We're really lucky to have him. Plus, he's just such a nice guy, I'm happy to give him my business.
I'd love to chew the fat anytime, creek... just shoot me a line.
$25 for a Bedrock jointer!!! Some people get all the deals. I see that Pine Islander has graciously offered to double your money on it, well, how about I double it and let it roam freely with a large herd of others similar to it? :)
Steve
Edited 3/12/2003 9:43:40 AM ET by Steve
Steve, what a nice gesture. I'm sure my plane would be thrilled to run free with yours. But I just couldn't bear to turn it loose, I would miss it so much! You can see from my reply to Pine Islander the story behind it. I keep looking for another auction like that one, but I guess it's just a once in a lifetime chance.
Well, because it doesn't sound like your going to part with it any time soon (drat!), I looked up the value according to John Walter. Somewere between $150 and $300, but a really good one or a really old one will bring quite a lot more. Have fun with it, and if you ever change your mind....
Steve
'Large Herd', huh? All Bedrocks?
I'm not sure I'd call myself a collector, I just buy planes that I actually use... but I sure have a hard time finding Bedrocks in this part of the world.
Where do you tend to find yours?
Well, large to me, about 50. I'm sure there are others out there with far bigger herds. I like to buy an old one and fix it up a tad and put it back to work too. Most of mine are Bailey's, a few Bedrocks, Stanley combo stuff, ect. I just bought a Preston bullnose from a guy in the UK. I get most of mine either from estate auctions, Ebay, or neighbors that hear that I collect them. Bedrocks are the hardest to find for sure. Right now I'm looking for a 604 1/2. I let one go on Ebay with a broken frog, then found a perfect replacement the next day. Still kicking myself over that one. Ebay is a great resource. Sometimes you can get one heck of a deal. I'm trying to get the whole lineup. It will probably take me the rest of my life, but I can't think of anything more fun to collect/use. Speaking of Bedrocks, here are a couple links that I find interesting. The first is for Patrick Leach's site, check out the new 601 they are building. The second is for Bob Kaune's site. Anything Bedrock, he probably has.
http://www.supertool.com
http://www.antique-used-tools.com
Just out of curiosity, whats your favorite smoother?
Wow. I'm impressed. Got any photos of your collection?
Thanks for the links... I've got to get back to the shop, but I'll certainly check them out later.
My favorite smoother? That would be Garrett Hack's Norris... I took a couple of passes with it at a woodworker's show last year... that was an epiphany!
As for what I actually own, I have a Bailey 4 and a Bailey 4-1/2 that I keep tuned for smoothing. Every time I look at a schnazzy one, those danged old kids start complaining that they want to eat or go to the movies or something! Oh well...
So what's your smoother of choice?
Hey, Pine Islander. I'm embarrassed, and my face is red. I told you and Steve I had a #7 Bedrock. Show's how observant I am. It's a Bedrock, but a #608. I just use it, and never really put in my memory what I really had. So, forgive me for speaking out of turn. Any info on that?
thanks
You are even luckier then I thought! You can add another $100 to the John Walter quote I gave ya. Probably going to handle it very carefully now? If it has the round sides, like a Bailey, its worth more, as it is older. The type 1-4 are the really valuable ones, but it is probably a newer one. Check out the link I listed on a previous post for supertool.com. Look at the Blood and Gore pages for a ton of info on the particular model. Patrick kind of thinks Bedrocks are over rated, but it is still an excellent read. Great fun this hobby!
Steve
Thanks, Steve. Great to hear I've got one that good. The patent mark says April 2, 95. I'll check the edge to see if it's like the Bailey. I have a Bailey #5 also. And one I have just sitting here is a Stanley No. 73 rabbet plane. Any info on those would be appreciated.
Thanks for the reply.
creekwood,
I bet you've actually got a Stanley 78 instead of a 73. They are not really worth a lot of money. I paid $50 for a nice complete one. By complete, I mean with the fence and depth stop. Personally, I think they are a great plane. I use mine on practically every project. They work great to size tenons plus about a million other things. As for the #5, they seem to be the most common, for good reason. They are a very useful size, so everybody must have had one. Some of them, without the lateral adjust lever, can bring a hefty premium, but most are just good users. One more thing, as 78's are frequently missing there fence and or depth stop, parts can be found on some of the look alikes. I've got a Wards Master Quality ($5) that has a fence and depth stop are identical to the Stanley. A little shopping around might get you the parts for cheap. The nicker off of a 45 or 55 combo plane will fit the 78 too. Have a good one,
Steve
My bad, Steve. Guess I need new glasses. It was a 78, but it's missing no parts. I checked the edge of the Bedrock, and its profile matches the Bailey, so I guess I've got the older one. Thanks for your insight. I'll treat it with extra care.
Hey Creek, Here is a link to a Bedrock type study, if you want to find out exactly which type you've got.
http://www.antique-used-tools.com/brtypes.htm
Makes a guy feel real sorry for poor ol' Creek, huh?!
Hi !
You can find antique tools and more online at this site !
http://www.uktoolshop.com
.... I Love the smell of sawdust in the morning....
Creekwood, you poor guy!
Only a #608? Awwwwwwwwwwww! Well, just because I like you, and you're from Arcadia, my 'double-your-money' offer still stands! ;-)
Ignore the first two numbers... that's a #8 sized Bedrock (a 607 would be a #7). Yours would be 24" long, the #7 would be 22". It would be heavier, of course, all the better for flattening a big honkin' board... good for you!
I have a reprint of a 1909 Stanley catalog which shows that plane with rounded sides... and the 1926 catalog shows it with flat sides.
With your luck, it's the older one!
Hey, Pine Islander. Looks like I made out ok. Don't feel too sorry for me, ok? It is the older one, with rounded sides, that match the Bailey. When I got it at that auction, the auctioneer told me the hand tools don't sell well, the modern cabinetmaker was only interested in the new power tools. They didn't want to take the time to learn how to use hand tools, so they never looked at them. Too bad. They're missing out.
Tell Merrill Jerry said hi. Ever want to get together and compare notes, drop me a line; [email protected]
Hey Creek,
You ever hear of any more auctions like that, you give me a yell, OK? I'll be out there in a flash!
I'm adding you to my e-mail address book right now.
Probably will see Merrill Sat. AM... will pass along your greetings.
Garrett Hack's Norris? Now I'm all sorts of jealous! Wouldn't it be nice to have one or two of those? I saw a picture of him in one of the FWW mags, with a rack of infills. His planes are probably worth what my whole shop is! Do you think they are worth the money? I see a few companies are making replicas, but for a sizable chunk of change. Someday. I can certainly sympathize with kids spending tool money.
My smoother of choice is an old Sweetheart Bailey 4 1/2 usually, but I've got a 4 and a 5 1/4 that quite a bit of use too. I haven't taken a picture of the planes, but I think I'll try it tonight. Might make a nice photo. I'll post it when I get it done. Have a good one,
Steve
Edited 3/13/2003 11:48:48 PM ET by Steve
Yeah Steve, I'd settle for just one! It was absolutely amazing...
I'm very happy with my Ford truck, it's reliable, and comfortable... like my Stanleys but that Norris was a Porsche Turbo Carrerra! Better than I could have imagined. And I'll probably never own one either the Porsche or the Norris... but I can still dream!
Worth it? Well, you know how it is in this business, Steve... something is 'worth' what someone else is willing to pay.
BTW: Garrett considers his collection "small and specialized". He visited a guy (in Houston, I think) that had a collection that if sold, would devastate the tool market. The guy lived in a rennovated warehouse so that he could displat SOME of his planes. (My wife thinks he must not be married!)
Well, I tried a photo of some of them but... I'm not very good with the wifes camera. Wish they weren't so grainy. This is some of them. I'm in the process of building the bench and some cabinets for my hand tools so everything is "stored" haphazardly. There are some more in boxes, but I ran out of time to get them photographed due to my bro wanting my help with some wrench turning.
Nice, Steve! Great stuff... be sure to build those cabinets way oversized so that you can justify the 'need' to fill them up!
BTW: Do you have a chisel plane? I looked hard at a #97 a few weeks back... but the guy would "let it go" for $500...
I'm thinking about the Veritas... any thoughts?
Pine, Thanks for the compliments. I like the idea of building huge cabinets :) You know, I didn't even know that Veritas made a chisel plane so I scrounged up the closest LV catalog at checked it out. Are you thinking of the one that you mount a chisel in? I guess I've never been around a Veritas plane. They look well made, have you tried any of them? That was very generous of that guy to offer to let his 97 go for $500, haha. I just went over to the Lie-Neilsen site and checked out their take on a 97, very nice. Good price too, $120 for the small one and $185 for the full size. I guess I've always thought that if I were to come across a good deal on one, I'd get it, but there are a few others on the list first. I bet its one if those that once you get it you wonder how you ever lived without it! You know, I was all set to get a 112 next, but now I'm second guessing. Good thing those cabinets will be big.
That collector in Texas, wow. Makes you wonder what is out there. A couple of weeks ago, I found a couple of cutters for a 77 doweling machine at my favorite hardware store. A new in box 9/16 and a new 3/8. I paid $12.60 each, even though my wife thought I was crazy. I listed them on ebay, hoping to double my money. It was amazing, the 3/8 went for $50 and the 9/16 brought $300! What you said about things being worth what people will pay for them is absolutely right. Have a good one,
Steve
My bad, Steve... I meant L-N but I said Veritas.
No, I've never even seen a Veritas plane in the flesh either, but their stuff does generally seem first rate.
The Lie-Neilsen chisel planes are sweet lookers, aren't they? I think I'm interested in the smaller one (standard sized). It seems to me the small one could go everywhere the big one can, but the reverse might not be true. Any thoughts?
I think you're right, once you have one of these, you'd wonder how you ever got along without it, and I'm thinking I'll never see a #97 for that price.
Sounds like I've talked myself into it, thanks Steve!
I, for one, am shocked that you don't need one for your general woodworking since you only own a 6" jointer and 12" planer. Yes, you'll use it.
My advice? Buy a Stanley #7 at a garage sale or flea market. You should be able to find one for $35-ish.
Why? Partly because I'm frugal, partly because I love old planes, but mostly because tuning up an old plane and then using it is amazingly theraputic and rewarding.
Once you have it, you'll wonder how you ever got along without it.
And besides, you'll periodically need to flatten that beautiful new bench.
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