Replies

1. 
   Woods1111 | Oct 20, 2008 04:28am | #1

   The scope of woodworking is wide.  You cannot do everything, nor can you equip yourself to do eveything. 

   If you are and remain to be a hobbiest in woodworking, then probably satisfying your wants and needs with furniture is a possible route to take.  Not to complicate this direction, then you want to select the style of furniture to create.  Start simple.

   So, what tools to begin with, or to accumilate?  Obviously, table saw, jointer is the first combo that work together.  Somewhere, sometime, you need to decide if power tools is the passion and/or hand tools are the desire.  With volume, you need power tools.  With time and recreation, you want hand tools.  Both can work together.

   I cannot give you a clear cut answer, but you need to experiment with what you have and maybe a few new tools added, and most important, explore your own passion with creating in wood and methods used. 

   When time is not a factor, wood and recreation go hand in hand in creating a tangeable end that you fabricated with tools in hand.

1. 
   RGomez | Oct 20, 2008 05:09am | #2

   That sounds like a good overall theory for satisifying my overall desire for woodworking. 

    I guess what I mean is that is it unrealistic to think that I could get along with a good jointer plane and no jointer machine and not feel like I am toiling over every project I undertake??  I would like to do projects in a reasonable amount of time for what a given project actually is....  I would be happy with say a furniture project per month (is this too unrealistic with learning curve etc?)  nothing really fine, more arts and crafts say???

   It also seems to me that the core machines that I have read about to set up a shop that has reasonalbe price and functionality with the ablity to work at a reasonable pace includes a table saw, router table, jointer, planer and bandsaw. 

   Using this as a means of achieving what I want to express through projects etc./ What would your order of priority be?  Also, can hand planes in combination with a bandsaw for resawing be as efficient as a planer and jointer machine.  How much time more are we talking here? Minutes? Days? Hours? Longer? 

   If you had the setup I described in my last post what would you get next?

   thanks again.

1. 
   roc | Oct 20, 2008 10:21am | #3

   For me the bandsaw is the most important power tool. I have resawed wood to thickness by hand using a two man saw. It is quite difficult to follow the line on the back side. So you saw at an angle for a while, turn the plank over, saw at an angle, then flip it back etc. This is ok for two feet but to do a plank seven feet long without a pit in the ground gets to be ridiculous. To understand what I mean you should try it. From then on when ever you use a bandsaw to resaw you will practically get down on your knees in appreciation of the good fortune of having your own bandsaw.Some people just run boards through their thickness planers to take them down. I suppose this is ok with cheep wood. But when you start using the good stuff you can see how precious even a quarter inch thick sheet of nice figure can be.For instance tonight I needed to take an eight quarter bubinga plank down to seven quarter to match the other seven quarter planks I have that will make up a dinning table top. I resawed off a sheet of "veneer" a little under one quarter by 10 inches wide by seven feet long. It is beautiful figure and if I just had a thickness planer that nice big piece would just be dust.What I make would be considered fine so resawing to thicknesses that are thinner than standard, for drawers and pidgin hole gallery parts, is part of the aesthetic. But all this is only for our family and I don't attempt to make any income by selling my work.Sam Maloof tended to use thicker parts using the approximate plank thicknesses as he bought them and a bit more free form shapes and he got along for years using almost all hand tools and making a modist living from it. But he is a very fit and determined man. It is staggering to think about how hard he worked in the early days. Worth reading his biography or at least looking at his work to compare with your ideas of what you want to make.In my view it is worth starting with the hand planes in the old way because you learn so much from it. It is not cheeper. It is not fast, though if you are working the softer woods it would not be too bad. Some of the nicer figure may need to be hand planed any way to get around tear out.I feel like I am starting to ramble here. Just about everyone winds up with the tablesaw, jointer and thickness planer in the end. For what I do the bandsaw was more important than any of these three so I bought it first and did the rest with handtools.Some people search out a situation where they can share power tools like these at a school or other shared shop space. I prefer to hole up in my own shop and not travel back and forth or deal with chronically dull or abused tools so I stay home and spend more time using hand tools than some people would find tolerable. I have more free time than some because I don't have kids. So if you don't have the time you may be better off getting the power tools and forget the longer but more rewarding side trip with the hand tools.>Get along without toiling . . .Depends on your fitness level. I have a back ground of spending eight to ten hours on my bicycle in the mountain roads or running for five hours at a whack. So planing for hours is not a big thing.>how longone thing to consider is if you make a lot of multiple parts that you want the same thickness the thickness planer (and jointer) are going to save a lot of time. To do the same by hand planes you got to mark out ALL your parts and plane to the lines.Using the thickness planer you get one the size you want and then mark that machine setting and you can plane all the others down to it without laying all the later parts out. Can power thickness plane several or all the parts at once to the same final dimension thickness and on edge for width. I suppose you could plane a large "sheet" to the thickness you want and then rip on the table saw but released stresses may get you in trouble and the parts may bow out of flat. or crook a bit.You will need to invest in blades for the power tools and a way to sharpen them. Some people have a heck of a time keeping their thickness planer blades sharp on some of the most recent home shop machines. Worth going to the Amazon.com and reading the feed back posts on DeWalt and Delta etc.Hope I didn't just ad to the confusion; try and read between my lines.Edited 10/20/2008 4:02 am by roc

   Edited 10/20/2008 4:10 am by roc

1. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 26, 2008 11:52pm | #28

   Some people just run boards through their thickness planers to take them down. I suppose this is ok with cheep wood. But when you start using the good stuff you can see how precious even a quarter inch thick sheet of nice figure can be.

   Yes! I do that! But only in my Yellow Planer at the high speed setting. I only take off the high nubs.

   Your point is well taken and I agree. I say nothing wrong with Electricity and power tools!And finish off with with the card scrapers!

2. 
   AdamCherubini | Oct 20, 2008 07:03pm | #5

   You need a stanley #7. Buy one on ebay or at a flea market and be sure to pay less than $50 for it.  You'll need to learn to sharpen it and tune it up.  Learn what to look for in purchasing an old plane at http://www.supertool.com (click on blood and gore)

   Don't buy any other planes until you've figured out how to make this plane work properly and quickly.

   Of course you can practically and quickly flatten stock by hand.  People did this for centuries.  Some of them were probably faster than Norm is today. 

   But you obviously need to try it for yourself.  A modestly priced #7 will satisfy both your woodworking needs and your curiosity.

   Adam

    

    

1. 
   RGomez | Oct 21, 2008 12:39am | #6

   Thanks for the advice. I will lookup this Stanely number 7 and see what it yeilds- Should I spend the money on this or just go out a "better" number 7 if I plan on buying it anyway down the line-- like I said this is all just order of priority.   I never liked buying the same thing twice if I can help it.   I take it you are saying I need the jointer plane before anything else I listed?

   I don't mountain bike but I have decent upper body strength. I have been a meat cutter from age 18 (31 now manage the shop) and I get along fine enough with hand tools but I also like using power tools I just don't want to spend my money in the wrong order wishing I had bought one thing before the other. 

   I am still waiting to see if anyone else has any input as to an order of priority judging from my initial post.  Again, I thank you all for your great advice. 

    

1. 
   AdamCherubini | Oct 21, 2008 01:04am | #7

   S#7 is top priority. Woodworkers need to straighten and square edges and flatten lumber as you pointed out yourself. This is the plane that does it. It can straighten and square stuff jointers can't and it can often do these jobs faster and better than a jointer can. In my opinion, the power jointer is the easiest machine to do without. My opinion is you don't need a fantastic #7. All you need is to learn to sharpen it and tune it up. It's not designed to produce wispy shavings in figured woods. That's what your smoother is for. Didn't see a circular saw or radial arm saw on your list. A cross cut hand saw is your next priority. You can get one at a flea market for $5. You are young enough that you should be learning to sharpen hand saws. That will open a whole new world to you.After that you need a cross cutting back saw- maybe 14" long. Again a flea market saw would be cheapest. But this is a tool that you can buy new and will be better than the flea market tool. So i would do that. You need a roughing plane. I think you should buy the cheapest #5 you can get and make it work. It's like a rite of passage. You'll be surprised at how bad a plane you can get to work and work well. I have old wooden planes, which I prefer. They are fun to use, work well, and have a lot to teach you if you are willing.After, only after you've bought and mastered the first two planes, should you purchase a new smoothing plane. This is the time to treat yourself to something really nice. After all, you've been frugal with your flea market planes and sweat equity. So you've earned it.That should be it for the basics. You can do a lot of woodworking with these tools plus the stuff you already have.From here, you should let your imagination and projects guide you. If you want to do a project with dovetails, then you'll need a dt saw. If you want to do veneer, you'll need tools for that. Forgot one thing- get thee a grinder. I have the 8" Woodcraft slow speed model and I have an SG wheel on one side. These grinders aren't great and I wish I had a better one. This is a tool I could see having to replace. The cups that hold the wheels on are not flat. Truing new wheels is pain. What I'd like to do is find someone with a hobby metal lathe who could machine new aluminum cup washers. Failing that, I'm not sure what the alternative is. If you've got the scratch and don't want to buy 2 grinders in your lifetime, spring for a Baldor. Don't know if Grizzly or somebody else offers a better grinder. I really don't think a Tormek is an alternative for a bench grinder. And tho the surface feet per minute (SFM) isn't much different between a 6" high speed and an 8" low speed, I think its much nicer to use the 8" low speed. It's easier to freehand stuff on it etc etc. Oh and the tool rests on the Woodcraft grinder stink too.Adam

   Edited 10/20/2008 6:10 pm ET by AdamCherubini

2. 
   Lataxe | Oct 21, 2008 01:07am | #8

   R,If you're a modern person you will be wanting results and personal ability to come quite rapidly. You can build very nice furiture to a good standard in short order by using machine tools. The price is that the furniture will have a look that reflects machine tool operations - regular, neat and clean.Many people are satisfied to stay with that look (indeed, they prefer it) but many are discovering that there is something attractive and personal about furniture made well but with the evidence of hand tooling -those irregularities of edge and surface that make the piece "not-machined".You may have the patience and resilience to start, perservere and be successful with handtools. Personally I would suggest you feed your possibly modern need for quick results by using the machines and then explore hand tools when you know you're able to understand the design and construction thang with competance.But if "handmade" and "handtooling" as processes appeal as much as the desire to make something then start with them planes and chisels. But be prepared to sweat, to be frustrated and to apply a lot of willpower!Lataxe

3. 
   Woods1111 | Oct 21, 2008 03:17am | #9

   I've read your reply to me and the other replys.  It can get confusing !  So, here goes.

   I liked the reply and advise who said, use machine tools to get started and make a few items.  Then, once you've figured out what you like to make and how to make it, that is the "manufacturing processes", then if you feel good about it, expand into using hand tools to acomplish some to the tasks in creating woodworking items.

   Although hand tools are good to create with, and satisfying,  for one to start with hand tools can be frustrating.  If you are to choose hand tools as the avenue to create with, then make small items first.

   Now, let.s talk about machines.  Do not think of buying an "inexpensive machine"  that will function adaquately for what the price reflects.  You will kick yourself and probably buy another model later on down the road.  Instead, think of "long term investment".

   So, what kind of authority am I speaking from ?  I own a 10,000 sq.ft. shop, have nine employees, and own 55 woodworking machines.  Do not buy junk !

   Buy the General, Delta, Powermatic, etc. type of table saws.  The $1400-$1800 types, not the $500 portable table saw.  Buy an 8" long bed jointer that has a 66" or more bed (table length is the quality part of jointers).  Buy a shaper with at least a 3/4" spindle instead of a router table.  This will do alot better work, although the investment of shaper cutters is considerably more.  Do these seem to be big machines to you ?  You will grow into them, rather than kick yourself down the road five years from now.

   And yet, hand tools are an asset as well.  I started buying machines in 1968.  Some where in the late 80's or early 90's, hand tools became interesting.  Since then, I've made a 180 degree turn-around.  Although, I run the shop for 40+ hours, evenings and weekends find me creating with ONLY hand tools.  So,both avenues have merit.

   Machines, buy bigger than you need, you'll grow into them. (Gosh, it's fun spending your money ! )  Don't buy junk.  Hand tools,  buy Lie-Nielsen, Bridge City Tools, or Veritas, (they have some nice innovative tools).  Flee market tools are fine as long as you know tools and what you are buying, as well as "tuning them up" to do the job.

1. 
   RGomez | Oct 21, 2008 04:30pm | #10

   Well-  Thanks for the advice.  My wife seems to think that your reasoning is along my lines as I usually hold out for the better tools rather than buy something and replace it again later.   I am considering everything you said. I must say however I don't know that all that stuff is going to fit in my garage! ha ha.  I have to also remind myself this is a hobby and not how I make my living. 

   Does anyone else have anythig to say to a poor soul trying to find his way?  Anyone else want to wiegh in on this in terms of a practical standpoint?   Also- I originally asked if 1 project per month is too much to shoot for with a beginner. Is th is realistic?   I pick up stuff fast usually and adapt with my hands.  

   Thanks for your advice. 

   Ralph

1. 
   RalphBarker | Oct 21, 2008 06:17pm | #11

   Fitting all of the machinery you'll want into a garage is easy. You just need Jay Leno's garage, minus all of the cars, of course. ;-)Assuming you don't want to park any cars in the garage, an average two-car garage starts off looking like a huge space, but quickly fills. It's likely that you'll want to put most machines on roller bases, so they can be moved about to create working space. Creative thinking and innovative cabinet design will come in handy.One project a month may be optimistic - especially if you don't want to turn your wife into a shop widow. Small projects dubbed "weekend projects" often take several weekends to actually complete.

2. 
   RGomez | Oct 23, 2008 01:28am | #12

   Thanks.  I will take everything here into account this has been really helpful.

    

   Ralph

3. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Oct 23, 2008 02:00pm | #17

   Hi Ralph,

   Another hobbiest chiming in here.

   The one underlying thought that seems to be in most of the replies you've gotten so far is - you won't really know until you try it.

   So, I would advise you to try it with what you now have.  Pick a project/piece that you want to make and have at it with the tools you now have.

   In all likelyhood you'll run into a roadblock or bump along the way.  At that point I would ask questions about techniques as to how to solve your issue.  That way you'll get inputs from all the knowledgeable folks in here as to their preferred methods.

   I guess the point I'm trying to make is that, to coin a phrase, one size doesn't fit all, especially in woodworking.  Everyone has their preferred method to accomplish a task and that preference is usually based on the tools they're comfortable/confident with using.

   There is no pat answer to this question, same for your question about whether or not it is reasonable to expect to make some # of projects every month.

   Your questions will be answered by your customers - do you and your customers like your work?

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

4. 
   RGomez | Oct 23, 2008 09:11pm | #18

   Thanks Bob.

   What I did is bid on this Stanely Jointer plane (no7) and will tune it and use it to complete the lid of a chest I am building where I have to edge join boards for the lid.  In this way I'll see what I am talking about myself.  I am really surprised by the number of people on here willing to take the time to give advice to a beginner.  After this I'll save for an 8" jointer machine and see if I like that better.  Either way I am sure having the machine for repetatitve tasks will come in handy. 

    

   Thanks.

    

   Ralph

5. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 25, 2008 01:47am | #19

   After this I'll save for an 8" jointer machine and see if I like that better. 

   I get a old 20 inck jointer if you have the time and money!

6. 
   RGomez | Oct 25, 2008 03:21pm | #20

   Yeah- I just bought a 50 dollar 7 inch stanley jointer to see if I like that approach.  After that I will start saving for the machine.  Is there anyone who could recommend a replacement blade or any upgrades for this tool?

    

   Ralph

2. 
   RalphBarker | Oct 20, 2008 06:55pm | #4

   You've received some good advice from craftsmen with extensive experience. My thoughts, after having spent 40+ years as a beginning woodworker, is that the balance between power and hand tools is quite personal. That is to say, there's no single answer that works for everyone. Our objectives differ, as do our work spaces and our budgets.

   That said, I don't think I could get along without my 8" Inca combination jointer/planer (even though the infeed and outfeed tables are short by production-machine standards, and Inca is now out of business), nor without my bandsaw, nor my scroll saw. I did, however, get along OK for a decade or so with just a table saw and a 4" jointer.

   Well, not "just" exactly. There was the router (1/4" at first, then 1/2"); inexpensive chisels, later replaced by more expensive Japanese chisels (and a dozuki, of course), etc., etc. A decent router table (with a dedicated 1/2" router) has supplanted my long-held desire for a big shaper. I also recently made a jig/fixture to hold my 4x24 belt sander for edge sanding. I'm not sure how I ever got along without it. But, I've recently had the urge to re-tune my #4 smoothing plane and the #7 jointer plane. Go figure.

   All of this is by way of saying that it's all an adventure, and a personal one. The key is to have fun along the path.

1. 
   roc | Oct 23, 2008 06:42am | #13

   >Inca is now out of businessOH Heck ! That is sad to hear. I have always pictured my self with one of the more recent table saws and I like the idea of the wide but short jointer. It would fit in my present shop. I don't think there is any way I could have the full length 8" jointer in my shop (but I need the width).In case one falls from the sky into my yard; how is the accuracy of the thicknesser and the jointer mode? Did you find to do nice work that you had to tune one or the other or were they both able to remain accurate at the same setting? I hope that makes sense.

1. 
   RalphBarker | Oct 23, 2008 08:09am | #15

   I've been very pleased with mine. I don't do much work with long stock, so the short bed hadn't been a problem for me. Accuracy has been fine, and adjustments stay put.

1. 
   roc | Oct 23, 2008 08:12am | #16

   Thanks !

2. 
   roc | Oct 23, 2008 07:14am | #14

   > to start with hand tools can be frustratingYep Yep !
   I came to realize that the thing that is majourly important about learning hand tools is to be around people who use them. So you can pick up all that indescribable stuff the apprentice woodworkers had access to but usually modern beginners do not.It is important to watch people who use them well and fast and have well set up tools that you can try. Also these people can set them up and you can learn from them how it is done.To get some old crap plane and attempt to make it work from reading and trial an error is a night mare. I actually enjoyed the night mare. Well looking back on it anyway. Sort of like the way I hear child birth is. You forget how much pain it was once you are enjoying the child.DVD Coarse Medium and Fine by Christopher Schwarz is a good start. Would be best if you can go to a wood working school for a week.

3. 
   BG | Oct 26, 2008 12:57pm | #21

   RGomez,

   I'm still a beginner after five years, as a matter of fact I've just finished upgrading my #7 with a Hock blade (about$30) and LN Chip breaker (about $30). Hock and LN make after market blades and chip breakers for the #7.

   While I enjoy FWW very much, the facts are most of my projects in the past have come from Popular Woodworking. Many of the fine projects in FWW would require an investment of $500 or more in fine wood. I don't trust my skills yet for that kind of investment and I like to make stuff, lots of stuff, so I recycle woods. It is those desires that dictate my selection of tools.

   Rough woods are initially flattened on the workbench with the #5 and #7 and then move to the planer to develop parallel surfaces. The TS squares up the stock and then I bandsaw thinner pieces for drawers, panels, etc. ( I use very little plywood)and finish up with the planer. Joinery is at the TS or workbench with the chisels and everything is brought together with hand planes.

   So you start to see the workbench, TS, Bandsaw and Planer are at the very heart of everything. The drill press gets very little praise except when you need it. If you want to build a lot of stuff and not blow the budget, I think you need to take the wood where you find it and make it useful.

1. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 26, 2008 04:32pm | #22

   I'm still a beginner after five years,  LOL  LOL 

   I'm still a beginner after Sixty five years, I ENJOYED THR TRIP.

    

   Edited 10/26/2008 9:38 am by WillGeorge

2. 
   RGomez | Oct 26, 2008 04:38pm | #23

   Thanks sounds like sound advice.  I am looking at bench grinders for my chisels and plane irons any recommendations on a budget of no more that 150-160.

   Ralph

1. 
   Ray | Oct 26, 2008 06:47pm | #24

   A few years ago Dewalt sold a little 5" wet grinder for about $20.00 that worked pretty well, model GR050.  If you're on a thin budget, you might be able to find one around.  Also, just about any bench grinder with a decent wheel would work for grinding chisels & plane irons - if you're careful :-)

2. 
   BG | Oct 26, 2008 07:08pm | #25

   RGomez,A modest but sufficient budget for sharpening would include:1. Veritas Mk II holder
   2. A flat piece of Granite, bought or dumpster dive
   3. David Charlesworth's DVD....teaches you all about planes
   4. Several sheets of sandpaper from 400 grit to what ever (at least 2000)and some green rouge and a piece of leather.
   5. have all your plane blades and chisels professionally sharpened the first time if not new.I believe the above will put you in control of the process and, over time, swap out the sandpaper for wet stones and grinders, etc.

1. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 26, 2008 10:41pm | #27

   A modest but sufficient budget for sharpening would include:

   1) Can of oil

   2) some old Hard Arkansas Oilstones

   3) Alot of time.

   Works perfectly if you have the time!

3. 
   roc | Oct 26, 2008 09:59pm | #26

   I had high hopes for this:http://www.cpowoodworking.com/grinders/23-700.html?ref=googaw687e&kw=%7Bkeyword%7Dbut DO NOT recommend it. The big stone wheel has a hard spot that causes a lump to form and then it is bump, miss, bump, miss until dressed again.I know you said ~ $160 It is hard to swallow but in the long run it may be worth getting a Tormec/clone.If you buy stones as I have you can get up to $500 pretty fast.No regrets here about stones. The power wet wheel I needed mostly for my HSS metal lathe bits and it works well for those. Not good enough for bench plane blades.

   Edited 10/27/2008 5:30 am by roc

1. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 27, 2008 12:05am | #29

   It is hard to swallow but in the long run it may be worth getting a Tormec/clone.

   I have a REAL Tormec.. It is a very nice tool and then some.. I could list objections but not here..

   There is a German made one that as far as I know works at much less cost.

   I still like my original. But I have one gripe.. That bar that guides the tool is way to short! Hell I can ride off the edge with any tool I am cutting.

1. 
   RGomez | Oct 27, 2008 01:43am | #30

   I have a combination wet stone that is 1000/8000 grit.  This is practically new seeing as how I have been using it only to sharpen the blade on my block plane. 

   If I get another stone to do the roughing of the bevel and fix nicks faster on the plane blades etc will that suffice for now instead of a bench grinder?

   I am using this for chisels and plane blades.  

   I already have a veritas jig for holding the chisels and plane blades I bought used. 

   If I can just get away with another wet stone seeing as how I already have one... what grit(s) would suffice? 

   I am really glad I decided to ask my initial question.... I seem to be getting alot of good advice here. 

   Ralph

2. 
   roc | Oct 27, 2008 03:27am | #31

   Inexpensive bench grinder that will keep your tool edges cool:http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Hand-Crank-Bench-Mount-Grinder-Sharpener-Tool_W0QQitemZ270291422044QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270291422044&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A15%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318No I am not kidding. James Krenov swears by them. I do not care for it (I have one) but that is just me. He hollow grinds the main angle then uses flat stones to keep edge sharp until hollow is lost then goes to grinder to make the hollow or grind out damage (chips) to edge. Worth looking up in the local Library his book with info that demonstrates how to use this grinder = The Fine Art of Cabinet Making. See pages 109 to 115. Simple and extremely effective.Mostly I use and recommend this but is five times the price:http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1580shop around for best price but this price is good. Not as fast for removing a big nick as the grinder but you can flatten your stones on it and flatten the backs of your plane blades. Be sure to get the extra coarse or it will take for ever.I recommend eventually some stone in between the 1000 and the 8000 the white Norton (4000) or the green Shapton (2000) might be the ticket. Not sure I have ever seen a 3000.PS: I just noticed Shapton makes a 120 stone. Not sure who carries it (I saw it in a Shapton brochure) but coarse stones tend to be cheep unless diamond.Edited 10/26/2008 8:28 pm by rocEdited 10/26/2008 8:34 pm by rocEdited 10/26/2008 8:36 pm by roc

   Edited 10/27/2008 5:34 am by roc

3. 
   RGomez | Oct 28, 2008 12:18am | #33

   http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Hand-Crank-Bench-Mount-Grinder-Sharpener-Tool_W0QQitemZ270291422044QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270291422044&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A15%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318  === WOW.

    

   WOW.  Not sure I want to go that old school on it.  I'll look at the diamond stone.

   Thanks.

   I just got a sale ad from woodcraft  on thier slow speed grinder on sale this week for 79 dollars.  Seems like a good price if I can get a couple years out of it.... 

4. 
   roc | Oct 28, 2008 06:03am | #35

   I have same flyer. That is a nice grinder. It could last you a decade or more. One of my grinders is a cheep "Altrade" brand. Older china; higher speed for hobby metal working. I have used it hard but with awareness (making my living for a while with it) and I have had it ~ twenty years.Look it over good when you get it. If it is not damaged from shipping etc., it should do well for you. I really like the white stones. They cut much faster than the gray junky ones.Not saying I would turn down a Baldor that, I think, Philip mentioned. Totally nice stuff. A must have if used every day.

   Edited 10/27/2008 11:11 pm by roc

5. 
   AdamCherubini | Oct 30, 2008 07:10pm | #41

   The problem I have with mine is the cup washers are junk.  The surface that mounts to the wheel and the surface that touches the nut or the shoulder on the shaft are not parallel. Consequently, truing wheels is a major pain. 

   The other problem is the tool rests.  They are cast and the castings should have been machined flat so that the pivot is somewhat parallel to the grinder's shaft.

   Okay so I talked myself into no longer recommending this tool.  If you have one and like it, God bless you and don't dump it because of something I say.  But if you are shopping for a grinder, I no longer think this is a good deal.

   if you just can't bring yourself to paying $400 for a better grinder (I certainly can't)  consider after market tool rests and spending significant time truing your wheels.  I think mine will never really run true.  The sides were pretty far out.  I trued them as best I can, but as the wheel wears, the balance changes.  I have one 3X wheel.  This is neat wheel but it wears really fast and covers your work area with grit.

   I don't have any hokey saying under my name, so let me say this here: Details matter.  And the more performance you want out of your tools, (or work) the more the important details become. 

   Adam

    

    

6. 
   RGomez | Oct 30, 2008 11:06pm | #42

   Well I just finished a 3 hours session of sharpening my chisels and 3 plane blades (block, jointer, jack).  The machine that I have runs great.  I have none of the problems mentioned by others on the machine and its a good thing because I have a woodcraft store where I got it from within 15 minutes of my house.  If anything happens to go wrong then back it goes.

   Another question: upon advice I have just tuned up this Stanley/Bailey no.7 jointer plane.  I noticed the blade says:  SsS (i think) Siegly plane Co. 

   Does anyone know anything about this company who made this blade?  Is it worth keeping or should I invest in a replacement.  I think its Canadian.

   I flattened the sole on the no.7 and got the whole piece servicable (although I am going to continue tuning it up in more detail as time/patience permits) and this plane happened to have some work done to it already- it appears the previous owner re-beveled the chip-breaker to have more contact with the plane blade, rounded out some of the edges etc.  So in this regard I got lucky.

    

7. 
   roc | Oct 27, 2008 03:49am | #32

   >bar that guides the tool is way to short!It would not be that big a deal to go to a local metal fab shop; look for a mom and pop or find a local guy that works out of one of those commercial strips with shop space for rent.Have him/her bend some "cold rolled" rod to fit the Tormec and tig a leg on it.If they use stainless material it might up the price a bit.

   Edited 10/27/2008 5:41 am by roc

2. 
   dgreen | Oct 30, 2008 02:24am | #36

   I have that grinder and have had no problems. A bad wheel does not a bad machine make. You should have returned the stone for a warranty replacement. A bad wheel can just as easily happen on the Tormek. 

    

   ................................................

   Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot

1. 
   roc | Oct 30, 2008 05:37am | #38

   dgreen,>Delta wet grinderNow you tell me. I figured I was cutting corners and I got what I paid for. Now if I had paid $500 and it happened I would have returned the wheel. Maybe I will order a new wheel and see how it goes. Hey do ya want a buy a "slightly" used wheel for your grinder?thanks for the encouraging words

   Edited 10/29/2008 10:38 pm by roc

2. 
   dgreen | Oct 30, 2008 05:59am | #39

   I sold a bunch of them when I was in the biz and never had a problem, I gave one to my dad and his has been trouble free also. I suppose sooner or later you will get a bad casting in the stone and it was just your luck to get it!

   It's no Tormek but for what it is and what it cost it does work very well when the wheel is true.

   I appreciate your generous offer re: the wheel but I bought a spare for both myself and my dad before I left tool sales behind.

   Is it by any chance still under warranty? 

    

   ................................................

   Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot

3. 
   roc | Oct 30, 2008 06:11am | #40

   >not under warranty,I have had it for years now. Who knows, if I approached the company I might get a response. I think I may have bought it at Woodcraft. I should look up in my check card book and see where I got it. It surprised me. I really liked the look of that big white wheel and I read that the tormecs pushed water onto the bench so not impressed with that. I hear they fixed that to some degree but still pricey considering with tormec gotta buy accessories on top of base price. Would be worth it if I had jointer blades etc. to sharpen and a wood working for profit sort of shop.

4. 
   Tracey1959 | Oct 28, 2008 03:19am | #34

   RG,  I have a barn full of power tools.  However I find a great satisfaction in working with the non power tools.  There is a man near here who likes to restore hand tools, doing a great job on them.  I have purchased two smoothing planes from him, a 20" and a 22", for $125.00.  I could not even begin to find either for that price new. Most of my other hand tools come from antique stores, auctions and yard sales.  I recently bought 7 hand saws for $10.00, 3 may be salvageable, the others will get painted. Braces and bits are plentiful as are chisels, all will need some TLC.  Good hunting. Trace 

5. 
   BruceS | Oct 30, 2008 03:15am | #37

   Ditto what Adam said about the #7.  I went that route but also bought a #6  and have ground the blades square and cambered.  since the blades are the same size they can be used in either plane.  I use the cambered blade for roughly flattening a board and the square blade for edge jointing or further flattening before the #4 smoothing plane.

   Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S.