Jointers & planers V. combined machines
I am a UK reader and have noticed in the advertisments that separate jointers and thickness planers seem to be the popular choice in the USA. The puzzle for me is that the jointers seem to be much narrower in capacity to the planers so how do get your board flats to start with? Are combination machines less popular in the USA or am I miss-reading the adverts.hearing your replies
. Here in the UK the combination machine is king.
The advantages of the combination machine are several:-
They take up less floor space than two separate machines. They are cheaper than two machines. They offer the same width capacity in both jointing and planing modes.
The main drawback is the need to change from one mode to the other , but the manufacturers have generally made this a quick and simple operation.
How do you make one surface flat before planing it to thickness ? Do you have some “tricks” ? I should be very interested to hear if you do as Icould use them on boards that are wider than my machine which has only an eight inch capacity. Then I would consider buying one of quite reasonably priced twelve inch portable planers.
One of the popular jointer/planers over here ( incidentally we call them planer /thicknessers) is made by DeWalt . My own machine was made by Elu ,a Swiss firm which was bought out by DeWalt. It has proved an excellent machine the model 1801 8 inch x 5 inch capacity , good in the workshop and light enough to easily take to site, but I do not think it is still in production.
One thing I have noticed is that you sem to get a good deal on your tools in the USA. You pay in Dollars what we pay in pounds and the exchange rate is almost one and a half Dollars to the pond.
Looking forward to hearing your comments
Trevor
Replies
I have a 8" long bed jointer and a 15" thickness planer. I looked at the combination machines but could not get myself around the idea that it does two jobs instead of one. Every combo tool I have used never seems to be as good as a dedicated machine. With that and I cannot see how a jointer bed can swing out of the way and then be returned and still be co-planner. But I guess that is my narrow minded America out look on things. You are right in saying that we usually us dedicated machines here but then again it is hard to come across combo machines when all the big manufactures here for the most part don’t produce them. Also it seems that the industry here as a whole don’t produce tools to the same safety standards as they do in the UK.
Scott C. Frankland
Newfoundland Wood Worker
Scott, I think I have the phobia too. Combo machines are probably O.K. for one man home shops without a lot of room. The limitation being space, sometimes the combo machine is what you are forced to settle with. I don't buy them myself because I have enough room, (well I did until I bought all these single function machines). LOL
Truly speaking, I don't think I would be happy substituting my 6" jointer and 12" planer with a combo machine. However, there is something intriguing about the planner/molder combos.John
My Robland 12" combo jointer/planer/morticer has many thousands of BF through it and it has ALWAYS stayed in adjustment, never have the beds become twisted to each other. As I have said in other posts on this subject, it is one of my favorite machines. The switch from jointing to thicknessing is about 20 seconds, if I'm loafing. The horizontal slot morticer is great. The tables total 50", a bit short, but most parts are not that long anyway. All this in 12 square feet of shop space for an original new price of $2400.00. The only thing I'd change it to trade it for a 16" model. I think US tool companies are missing the boat on this one, Delta tried it but it never seemed to get off the ground.
One of the few combination thickness planer/jointer units I've seen advertised is an Inca model available through Garrett Wade. It's very expensive, of course. I couldn't justify the cost for weekend hobby use.
Is woodworking considered an expensive hobby in Europe? In other words, is the average European woodworker moderately well off? I think the American companies concentrate on the average middle class buyer who accumulates machines as they can afford them, rather than buying a very expensive multipurpose machine. Ihave heard that Inca is going to discontinue selling their tablesaws in the States. Maybe that illustrates the soft market for really high end machines.
As for myself, I rarely work with wood wider than 6", so I'm able to do initial flattening on my 6" jointer, finishing up on a 12.5" portable planer. Both machines were under $500, affordable as separate purchases. If I need wider stock, I pay a lumber yard/millwork shop to "skip" plane one face and joint one edge. It works for me.
Dovetail:
Now you have me thinking! I checked all of my catalogs, 13 to be exact, and found only one combination machine listed: The Inca offered by Garrett Wade for $2,995.00! Please translate that into Pounds or Euro's for the American audience. For that price I could buy an industrial quality cabinet saw with accessories (Delta Unisaw or Powermatic Model 66), or a complete set of decent quality single use tools. I have seen only one other combination machine, ever, a Ryobi jointer planer in use by a finish carpenter. He needed it for it's portability. The high cost of these machines simply isn't worth the minimal space advantage unless you carry your tools around in a truck all day.
Looking at the Inca combination machine, I can't see any great space advantage, since it must be at least temporarily bolted down to a stand or benchtop for use. I have my Jet 6" jointer on a mobile base with locking casters. The actual base footprint is only about 18" square. I push it up against the wall when not in use. I keep my Delta portable planer under my bench, clamping it to a table when I need it. As for the combination tablesaw/jointer/planer/mortisers liks the Felder, Laguna, etc., I'm not sure I would want to pay $5000 for an 800 pound behemouth I'd need a crane to lift, upgrade my electrical service to 3-phase, and be limited to a single overseas manufacturer for parts and service. These machines might make sense to a small production shop, but not the average American weekend woodworker. There. Now I'll get off my soapbox. Thanks for the interesting post.
Well I have to go back and think of the info including a video I got showing the Robland x-31. I was pretty impressed with the machine and even considered buying the unit for my work shop until I looked at the price. I broke it down and figured that I could buy a good quality cabinet saw, shaper, mortiser, jointer and thickness planner for less than the price of a Robland.
Scott C. Frankland
Newfoundland Wood Worker
Thank you to Scot, q-sawn and John for your replies to my question about jointer/planers.
There are a considerable number of Combination Jointer/ Planers available here in the UK. Most of them are made in Europe with a few from Taiwan.
They vary in size with capacities from approx. 6 inches wide by 4 inches thick to 12 inches wide by 8 inches thick. for general amateur and commercial use with some larder machines for industrial use. ( my local timber yard has a fine Wadkin 20 inch by 12 inch. Wadkin was a English firm dating back over 100 years now sadly no longer in business, as with so much of the UK's industrial base. I understand that this industrial blight has affected you in the USA in a similar way.)
I have looked through my latest edition of " Furniture and Cabinetmaking" published here in the UK by The Guild of Master Craftsman Publications. ( This in my opinion is the best of the UK woodworking magazines, similar in quality to Fine Woodworking. I would recommend getting a copy if you get a chance , perhaps if you come to the UK.)By the way we can get all of Taunton's publication from The Guild of Master Crafsman. I wonder if Taunton could reciprocate ?
In this months issue the following are advertised
Record 12inch by 6inch £699 ($480)
Electra Benkum 10 inch by 6inch £564 ($390)
DeWalt !0 inch by 6 inch £733 ($510)
Kity 8 inch by 8 Inch £592 ($410)
These are all good quality and suitable for home use and by self employed professional craftsmen.
There are also more robust cast iron machines for heavy duty use such as the cast iron constructed machines made by Luna, Sedwick etc. prices for £1600 ($1100 ) and up and up and up!
It seems to me that there is a business oportunity for someone to import some of these machines into the USA .
I won't "run on" any more but I will be happy to supply more information if anybody is interested.
Regards Trevor
I looked up that Record 12x6 you mentioned. The bed is apparently shorter than even a typicaly 8-inch jointer, so you are limited as to the board length you can accurately joint. On the other hand, I'd give that up for the ability to face plane a 12-inch wide board. If I add up the cost of my 6-inch jointer and 12-inch thickness planer, this would have been much cheaper and more effective.
As for how we manage to flatten one face of a 12" wide board,,,,try, in no particular order, hand plane, belt sander, 4x8 foot lapping plate(?), router carriage, radial arm saw with planar head. And, of course, by making a number of very thin cuts on a thickness planer, and depending on how the board is bowed, you can sorta flatten one face.
In other forums over the years, I've seen people recommend that you rip the board into 6" wide pieces, face plane each, then glue them back together.
And, of course, once you can do 12", you'll have something bigger. Just had to flatten an old 15" pine glueup last night. A straightedge, chalk and belt sander did it.
Gerry
Check your pricing; you have the pounds and dollars reversed. The 699 pound machine would cost about $1,050, and so on.
Thanks for the note Ben
My appologies you are correct. I had not switched on my brain. That is the big danger with using calculators. If I had stuck to mental arithmetic iI would have realised the mistake as I worked it out. Sorry again.
Regards Trevor.
Just a note: I am now getting into woodworking again. I have been asking a lot of questions and found a friend who is familiar with the UK. He explained to me that because over there most shops are small and very limited on room. Over here we have so much realestate that we can have many different machines. As he explained it is much easier to move from one machine to another as opossed to changing your machine for the different tasks. To him it was not a matter of having a machine for every job, but how much room you have.
God bless!
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