Suppose you have a completely square block of 4×4 from which you are going to re-saw thin pieces, say, 1/4″ thick. Between cuts it is usually shown that you must use a jointer to square up and smooth the sawn face of the source block. Why cannot you use a planer to do the same thing? The face away from the saw remains perfectly flat and close to parallel
to the sawn face. Therefore the planer should be able to restore the sawn face back to re-saw utility. Is there something I’m missing here? Does it have to do with snipe?
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Replies
You can use the planer as you describe, IF you are working only one face. Typical practice is to resaw both sides before returning to the jointer to reflatten both faces. It's all about time.
I'd resaw one face, then thickness plane, repeat. I set up the thickness planer next to the band saw and go back and forth.
Whilst you can use a planer, if you have a jointer, it is much faster to make a couple of passes on that.
You will need to reset the planer every time you resaw otherwise, as the wood gets thinner each time. The jointer does not need any resetting but becomes progressively more dangerous as the wood gets thinner.
A planer only planes a surface flat. What you call a jointer I call a thicknesser. It's a better descriptive word, really, as the jointer/thicknesser ensures a board is of even thickness throughout, as well as flat both sides.
The planer makes one face flat (and also one edge flat; and at 90 degrees to the face).
The jointer/thicknesser uses the planed flat face as the reference to plane the other face not just flat but also parallel to that reference face.
If you plane the non-flat face rather than jointing it there's no guarantee that you'll do so in a way that keeps the thickness of the plank the same for the whole plank. Both faces can be flat but the boards can end up wedge-shaped - thicker at one end/corner than the other.
The same applies to the edges. With a thickish plank you can use the planed-flat/square edge as the reference on the jointer/thicknesser table to make the other edge flat and parallel to the planed edge. But generally that's done on the tablesaw, as edges are often thin (like your 1/4" edges) so not a good reference for a jointer/thicknesser.
Lataxe
Lataxe, It is kind of tough to understand what might be good information if you start by changing the names of the machines.
MJ,
You must persevere with the foreign nomenclature. Your jointer is always called a thicknesser in Britain. I mention the name to emphasise the main function (making a plank the same thickness throughout) which also explains why using a planer on the second face just won't do. :-)
Incidentally, just as using only a planer can make flat-faced but wedge-shaped planks, using only a jointer can make evenly thick boards that are shaped like bananas or barley twists.
Lataxe
Latex, you are going to see a liit of confusion with the labels you are using.
For almost all of us, a jointer is that machine that can do the edges of boards, even very wide boards, and the face of somewhat narrower lumber. Most hobbyists have access to jointers that are only 6 or 8 inches wide. Wider jointers get a lot more pricey. Join here can make one face flat, but can also make a board wedge-shaped.
A planer here is also known as a thickness planer. The most common are just under 13 inches wide, while pricier machines are 15 and 20 inches. They make one face parallel to another. They can't do edges of boards, as they are enclosed.
I know we are separated by a common language, but your responses here are raising more questions than answers.
If your "completely square block of 4×4" is really a cube, then most thickness planers will not work because they need a minimum length, usually 7 inches or more.
If using a joiner, then extra support may be needed to prevent any tipping into the blade. Think about how to keep your fingers clear.
Mr C2,
I confess I myself become confused by the various terms. I've got it wrong when referring to your jointer as a thicknesser in UK English, for instance. Your jointer is what we call the planer. What you call the planer is our thicknesser! Lawdy.
*****
Anyroadup, what I'm trying to say is that any plank that can be sensibly put through a jointer and planer (your terminology) must be put through both if the plank is to be not just flat & square to the edges but also of even thickness and width. You can't really do it with just the one machine unless you make jigs (like you lads & lasses do, for everything) to turn the jointer into a planer or vice versa.
Lataxe
PS Why were the imperial measurements not thrown in the harbour with the tea? Metric is so much clearer. :-)
I've been making furniture and many other things for a few decades. I've never owned a jointer, and only used one in a couple of classes. I've never missed having one, and actually find them completely unnecessary. I would never be without a thickness planer though.
John,
If you have a longish rough plank that's got a bit of twist or is bent end-to-end, how do you get one face flat without a jointer? Putting such a plank through only your planer will surely make the plank evenly thick but still potentially twisted or bent end-to-end, won't it .... ?
Same question about the edges? If a plank has a cupped edges, how do you get them straight without a jointer?
I suppose you can use a hand plane, powered or otherwise. I'd be interested to know your methods of work with such bent planks.
Lataxe
For the purpose of the original question (resawing thin plies) it does not matter if the faces are parallel only that they are flat and are square to an edge, which is easiest on the jointer until it gets thin, then switch to the thickness planer for safety.
Lataxe, the number of times I work long pieces is pretty rare. I break most parts down, leaving a couple of extra inches for trimming, before final dimensioning. Most pieces are 3 or 4 feet long, and once in a while 6 feet. Most furniture parts are just not that long. But the vast majority of the boards I work with are wider than any jointer I have either the money or space for.
I choose stock carefully, and won't buy badly twisted boards. Even if I got them flat, odds are they will twist again down the road.
If I have boards with some twist, I knock the high corners off with a jack plane, then run them through the thickness planer, alternating sides. I've never once had an issue getting a board flat this way.
I get straight and square edges right off the table saw. If an edge is bad, I'll rip it straight on the bandsaw, rip the opposite edge on the table saw, then flip it back and rip the bandsawn edge on the table saw.
If you resaw straight and square, why would you have to go back to the jointer to renew the face. I frequently resaw and will only go back to the jointer if the wood has twisted from releasing internal stresses but otherwise, the cut face is perfectly true and if worried about compounding a small misalignment, I rotate the part at each pass on the bandsaw or table saw.
As the one who started this thread, I appreciate all the advice; and I will try to comment quickly on the various replies.
To _MJ_(#1) and Rob_SS(#3): "it's all about the time" between jointer and planer sounds like the best answer to my question.
To LealonW(#8):"block of wood" was not the best terminology. What I have in mind right now are 18" long pieces.
To the Brits (#4->#7): Talk about a terminology problem!?!
To John_C2(#13): Since I only have a planer and no jointer also, I read your techniques with great interest toward my future applications.
To Gulfstar(#14): The cut face becomes the face of my next ply which will be visible in the final product. Therefore I plane it to smooth out the saw marks from the bandsaw blade.
If one does much surfing on the forums you run into the fact that in the US we call a "jointer" what others may call a "planer". We call a "planer" what others may call a "thicknesser". I also have a hood and a trunk on my car where others may have a bonnet and a boot. Different terms abound . . . we are not alone ;-)
I saw from one side of the prepared blank, plane the freshly sawn side using the smooth opposite side as a reference for the planer (or thicknesser) and repeat.
There are several ways to flatten and thickness boards, as this thread shows. Although my own habit became jointer-then-planer, the replies here make it clear there are other ways just as valid.
Personally I avoid flattening a big board with a handplane. Too much work! Other things to do! But I admire the ability of those who can square a big board with only a plane and some careful marking-out lines.
Many here seem to have a hybrid approach - fairing the worst bumps or mis-shapes with other tools then using the planer to thickness but also finally-flatten it to a significant degree. I have done so myself when the boards are short enough or already flat enough for a planer-only to be enough.
In Europe, including Britain, planers and jointers are often sold as a single machine (the "planer-thicknesser") that performs both operations. The jointer table is used first to flatten one face and straighten one edge to a right angle with that face. The machine's top (jointer) table is then lifted out of the way to reveal the planer underneath (using the same cutter block over another table) so the board can be thicknessed evenly and (if the plank is thick enough) have the other edge straightened/squared too. It's a rapid operation and often the basis of all further work, by machine or hand tool, to make a piece of furniture out of the now perfectly square planks to be sized, cut and joined together.
As with the tablesaw, the USA seems to have a different tradition for how these machines are built and used - as well as the different names.
Lataxe
Actually, that sounds like the exact same terminology we use. Only, we tend to buy separate machines.
A jointer is used to flatten a side (irrelevant to the other sides). It is usually used to flatten and square (make perpendicular) two adjacent sides.
Then, the table saw is used to cut a parallel side that is square to the wide face.
And a thickness planer is used to make the two wide faces parallel to each other.
Am I misunderstanding?
As for the usage of a jointer in between passes of resawing... I don't own a jointer yet. Wish I did... It might be my next big purchase. But, I can see a few reasons for using one. First, it does ensure that the face against the fence is perfectly flat. Second, it removes blade marks while the block of wood is larger, therefore a little safer.
I have a 12" helical "Euro-style" combo machine, marketed and purchased as a " jointer-planer". Jointing is done by hand-feeding the stock above the cutter head and planing is a powered feed below the cutterhead.
I guess the original question has been lost in a discussion on terminology.
I must admit I do find the American terminology confusing.
In Europe the m/c that does the work of a hand plane is called a planer,
the m/c that then converts that piece of wood to the desired thickness is called thicknesser, simple, logical. Neither m/c makes a joint.
Along the same lines the m/c that replaces a hand router is called a router.
You don't half make things confusing over there, or perhaps we are easily confused, what ever nothing is going to change.
P.S. We won't even mention the way you size timber.
Keep on making on whatever you call it.
The rational here is that a jointer was used to "joint" each edge of a board, so you can edge glue a wider panel. You can also do a face of the board, up to the width of the machine. It wasn't that long ago that jointers for home use for almost universally 6 inches. 8 inches sold for quite a bit more.
Your thicknesser is most often termed a thickness planer here. The 12 to 13 inch machines are most often referred to as "lunchbox planers," because of their relative light weight and portability.
To haldave; I understand, I do the same to cut down sanding and for that purpose I use a corroyeur also known as a dégauchisseuse with a hélicoïdal head.
Oh wow, I'm jealous. My dégauchisseuse has straight knives.
Hand plane one face true and without twist. Stuff it in the planer. Repeat. Jointer isn’t necessary.
To (hopefully) clear up some of the confusion about the name-variance between the US and the UK, here's a Matt Estlea video explaining not just what a planer-thicknesser (UK) or jointer-planer (US) is but also how to use them to make boards flat, square and parallel in their two edges and two faces.
https://www.mattestlea.com/post/what-is-the-difference-between-a-jointer-and-a-planer
Mind, if you do get one, don't use the jointer (top table) as this lad does. I'm surprised he still has his fingers or even his hands! That guard should be opened up to the width of the face or edge being jointed with the rest of the guard flat on the table covering the unused part of the whirling cutter block, so the cutters are entirely covered by the wood and the guard. Best also to employ push-pads rather than hand palms.
Lataxe
Here I was in America several years back, writing a program for an American-operated British product. The US government regulating inspector, who was from Belgium originally, recommended to me that I write an "interpretation sheet" so technicians wouldn't bring a "torch" when they wanted a "flashlight," and to change "spanner" to "wrench" and so on.
To the OP, when I cut veneer (or 1/4"), I tend to bandsaw the piece off, then run it over my jointer to smooth it out for the next pass (set at about 1/32"). If I feel jaunty, I'll slice a veneer off both sides (previously mentioned), then joint both sides, assuming I haven't made anything go out of square. My bandsaw is religiously square! If you don't have extra wood, or the wood is expensive, I'll go right to the jointer each time and not try to get two cuts on the bandsaw with each visit.
If it does go out of square for some reason (wood happens), out comes the jointer and/or planer and that makes the two sides parallel again. Nothing worse than getting successive pieces of veneer that come out with a taper.
Alternatively, you could cut them all at once on the bandsaw, just a little thicker, then plane the final product down at the end. That only works if your project can be planed, scraped or aggressively sanded after it's assembled, but it'a another approach I didn't see posted here. I like the scraper approach for a final pass (after hand planing) when I've done inlays, banding or stringing, then follow up with a fine grit sandpaper if need be.
I'm still trying to figure out what a carpent is and what I'm supposed to be doing to it! Being a joiner makes sense.
But, yes, I believe a jointer is a machine that does the job of a jointing plane... A Jointer Plane, covers both things we're comparing here, yeah?
And, yes, since I don't have a jointer (machine) I do use my #7 to joint faces before running boards through my thicknessing planer. I used it the other day when I was flattening faces to run through my bandsaw, in fact.
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