Replies

1. 
   robkelly | Aug 29, 2004 12:27am | #1

   Steinmetz, this joke is insulting. True craftsmen do not use nails.

1. 
   Steinmetz | Aug 29, 2004 05:19am | #4

   Rob, You'll have to remember; in those days, contact cement was not around and Liquid nails was only used on arks and fishing craft. (And such) 

   Ed from CT.

   Edited 8/28/2004 11:03 pm ET by steinmetz

1. 
   robkelly | Aug 30, 2004 02:05am | #5

   Ed, this ancient joke has brung up a question which has never been sufficiently answered--exactly how did Mary and her friends get Jesus off the cross anyhow? Presumably nails large enough to keep a person from slipping off had to have wide heads (like today's RR spikes) which would make it difficult/impossible/extremely messy to remove the body if the nails hadn't been removed first. So do they show up with a large claw hammer or a crowbar? Probably not, since such items have never been offered as relics, like pieces of the cross, the nails, and the spear of Longinus.

   I think it is more likely, given the great number of crucifixions taking place at the time, that there were probably people offering a "post-crucifixion service" who hung out at the punishment sites and had the proper tools to separate the flesh from the wood without causing unsightly further trauma.

   Any thoughts on this important subject?  Rob

1. 
   Steinmetz | Aug 30, 2004 04:05am | #6

   Rob, I can't tell if you're really serious or pulling my leg??

   Have you forgotten, The Romans were all over the middle east then??

   They built magnificent roads,aqueducts,sports arenas, chariots, and spas.

    Surely, they had telephone poles and those screw- on metal climb brackets.

   Steinmetz.

1. 
   robkelly | Aug 30, 2004 04:32am | #7

   Ed, I don't think metal climb brackets are even part of the answer. I think you'ld have to take the cross down, rather than work up in the air, but once you've got the cross on the ground, you still have to either pull the nails or leave the nails in place and mutilate the body and then pull the nails. I have rejected the idea of turning the cross over and driving the nails out from the other side, as that is rather undignified and also the Shroud of Turin does not show that the front side of Jesus suffered any of the gravel rash which would accompany such a procedure.

   The more I think about it, I'm sure that there were people on site with the correct non-mutilating nail-pulling equipment who offered the service for a slight fee. In Roman times, iron was common but still expensive. The nails probably belonged to the Empire (and the cross too) and had to be returned for re-use. The family's choice was either to pay the fee, or get back a (more) mutilated corpse. Sort of like the present day Chinese executing a criminal and sending the family a bill for the cartridge used.

   Rob

2. 
   Steinmetz | Aug 30, 2004 04:48am | #8

   Rob, I WAS right! You WERE pulling my leg.

   So for that, I'm sending you this attachment.

   Steinmetz.

   
3. 
   robkelly | Aug 30, 2004 08:40pm | #9

   Obviously, those guys didn't know before their 1st experience, that living in grass houses, they shouldn't show thrones either.

   How can you say I'm pulling your leg? I am attempting to seriously address one of the great unanswered questions in western religion. The salvation of millions may depend on the answers. Incidentally, if you are still a Christian as well as a woodworker, do you belong to a "half-lap joint cross" group or a "bridle joint cross" group? I am leaning towards the latter, since I am now fairly well convinced that the crosses were reusable and belonged to the Empire.  Rob

4. 
   jhausch | Aug 30, 2004 08:52pm | #10

   GROAN!

5. 
   Steinmetz | Aug 30, 2004 10:13pm | #11

   Jimbo, where doe's it hurt?

   Steinmetz.

   
2. 
   Mackwood | Aug 31, 2004 07:25am | #12

   Almost; in actuality the whole crucifixion was conducted for the "government" by a service corporation (LLC of course) which subcontracted the various phases (scourging, site work, death certification and corpse removal) to smaller, specialty contractors.  The work was performed under prevailing wage and minority hiring edicts and overseen by several teams of managers and consultants to ensure efficiency and strict accord with the local statutes.

   I went to Catholic grade school but didn't get the straight scoop on this until much later in life!

   Regards,

   Mack  "WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"

1. 
   splintergroupie | Sep 01, 2004 02:27am | #13

   In Mormon school, that being a more modern invention of God in man's image, we were taught that screws were employed. You are surprised, no doubt, to learn that long before Mr. Philips, Mr. Robertson and Witold Rybzynski, these were originally idolized as graven images, and only later were their more prosaic functions fully realized. Being mere wood themselves - which explains their disappearance only to be rediscovered at a much later date - they required a Pilate hole to insert them, but over the long haul of multiple crucifixations, the initial investment paid off.

2. 
   Mackwood | Sep 01, 2004 02:49am | #14

   Ah--I see! That explains the expression "getting screwed".  Must be a shortened version of the original "getting screwed to the cross"; the cross being dropped by later generations of heretics!

   This forum is just chock full of enlightenment! LOL

   Regards,

   Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"

3. 
   Steinmetz | Sep 01, 2004 03:18am | #15

   Splint,  HA! Pilate very funny.

   Speaking of screws, ZI sent my grandson (6yrs) to fetch me a screw driver.

   He hesitated, then asked," Do you want a plus or a minus?"

   Stein.

4. 
   splintergroupie | Sep 01, 2004 04:49am | #18

   You know, i've always thought calling the thing a Philips head so-and-so was just so precious...i'm adopting your grandson's method.

   (Psst..."ZI"? You're trying to touch-type again, aincha?)

5. 
   Steinmetz | Sep 01, 2004 07:52pm | #21

   Splinn, I usually catch those 'Misteaks' before I post them.  I can't blame THAT on my fat fingers ,as usually it's a matter of hitting a neighboring key . Yes, I majored in touch typing at Hunt and Peck Academy   Stein

6. 
   Steinmetz | Sep 01, 2004 09:01pm | #22

   HEY STEIN, Speaking of Latin,,,,,,

   
7. 
   MarkRoderick | Sep 01, 2004 10:55pm | #23

   For some reason the translation of "Felix Navidad" into "Our cat has a boat" strikes me as one of the funniest things I have ever seen.

8. 
   Steinmetz | Sep 02, 2004 01:06am | #24

   Mark, I bet you didn't notice,    I posted  that note to myself'

          I particularly  like the one about Gloria

   Every time I see that inscription chiseled into a bulding's facade (Mostly schools) I crack up.   Stein

9. 
   robkelly | Sep 01, 2004 03:20am | #16

   Last week I was driving through the Texas panhandle and saw from the Interstate a huge cross (it turned out to be 200 feet high) about 40 miles east of Amarillo. There were appurtenant buildings and a parking lot in which there were cars, as well as an area in which there were a number of crosses resting on racks, and a lesser number being dragged around the lot by individuals ranging from small children to adults (the crosses were in various sizes.) Naturally I stopped to check this out.

   It was a shrine of some sort, in which visitors were invited to "experience the actual burdens of Jesus." Although families were present, the activities were for males only. Cross rental was $2.00 per half hour, with scourging, $5.00.

   I did not see any Kerry/Edwards bumper stickers in the parking lot.

   I was still assimilating this experience when I got home and saw Steimetz's joke, which gave rise to my posts.

   I firmly believe in De gustibus non est disputandum (No one can deny that Gus is in the East) but it bothers me that, merely because of her sex, Splintie is forever denied this transcendental experience, at least in the Texas panhandle.

   Rob

10. 
    splintergroupie | Sep 01, 2004 04:46am | #17

    Three days later, you didn't run into the Shrine of the B.A. Rocks? I was giving a seminar on levers (and screws, truth be told), to a group of graduates of the Principles of Uncertainty, which, roughly translated from the English, means: "Stand downhill of the rock and we'll have to get the last guy out of the tomb so you can use it". We'd just gotten started on the levitation lesson when we lost two raw food faddists before anyone could throw a rope on them.

11. 
    Mackwood | Sep 01, 2004 06:50am | #19

    I'm sure with a quick"Google", one of any sex could find cross bearing and scourging available (especially if one is willing to pay for it!)close to home and thereby save one's self a (quite possibly) wasted trip to the Texas panhandle.

    "WISH IN ONE HAND, #### IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"

12. 
    Steinmetz | Sep 01, 2004 07:43pm | #20

    Rob do You know any Latin?  No! not Fernando Lamas

    The language! 

    SIC ET GLORIA OMNIBUS MUNDE  

    Gloria barfed on the bus monday

    Stein

    Edited 9/1/2004 1:57 pm ET by steinmetz

2. 
   nikkiwood | Aug 29, 2004 12:53am | #2

   You must love this story, since you seem to be shopping it around. Didn't you post it in one of the Cafe threads in the last week or so?

   There must be some inside info necessary, since I don't get it.

1. 
   Steinmetz | Aug 29, 2004 05:10am | #3

   Nikki,

   Having attended Catholic schools when younger, (Also public school)) I couldn't help but notice almost every classroom wall contained a Crucifix (Jesus nailed to the cross).

   You can readily understand ;  any mischevious boy would interpret it as a warning to behave.  Steinmetz