Jorgensen Clamp Sticking Problems
Hello To All,
I have several Jorgensen Cabinet Master clamps which are sticking shut.
I just checked the article in FWW #172, ‘Bar Clamps Head to Head’ and sure enough, the author mentions having the same problem. He went on to say that ” … but a simple giggle of the handle usually took care of the problem.” Well, I’ve been ‘giggling’ too much of late with these clamps.
I have had trouble with all of my JCM clamps, but one more so than the others. I must admit that they are not numbered, so I am assuming that I am, in fact, having trouble with the SAME clamp. At any rate, I believe that I learned how to solve this annoying problem.
When putting the cleaned clamp away, leave the clamp adjusting handle towards the middle of its travel. I have found that if you remove all of its travel – turned completely in the direction as you would to open or release pressure – then close it shut and rotate the handle to clamp it shut, it will stick every time. If you leave the screw travel at the half-way point and then clamp it shut, it will always come free when you attempt to open it.
This may be a small matter to some, but when you need a clamp but cannot get it open, it can become very frustrating.
And, BTW, the above mentioned article also gave a web site: ‘www. adjustableclamp.com’, which does exist, but cannot be opened. I was attempting to email them about this but could not log in.
If anyone else has solved this problem, I would like to know the details. I sincerely hope this may help anyone who has had this problem. These are very good clamps, but of little practical use if you cannot get them open.
Regards,
Phillip
Replies
Phillip,
I was just speaking with the manager of the Woodcraft store in Springfield, VA (near DC). He told me they've discontinued the Cabinet Master clamp line because they've had to replace so many due to the design flaw that sometimes causes the clamp to have difficulty opening when both heads are together.
At the end of the day, it seems nothing beats the Bessey K-Clamp (the manager said the Gross Stabils weren't that great either).
Cheers,
Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Any clamps that 'stick' you can send to me... I'll put up with all that frustration if it does not cost me a lot.
Edited 2/11/2005 6:33 am ET by Will George
Mitch,Thanks for the heads-up. Well, that may explain why their website is non-operable. Perhaps this 'design flaw' has caused them to take down their 'shingle'. I don't know if Jorgensen is an American company, but it's doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that THEY KNEW they had a problem before they put them out for sale. Taiwan, China I can understand, because you're getting what you pay for (IMHO). The Jorgensen CM clamps have a price comparable to the Bessey K-Clamps so one would naturally expect them to BE comparable! Guess I just expect to much for my money.And, no doubt Jorgensen figured (wrongly) that we wouldn't notice. That gets a big, fat, OH, YEAH! from my end. I truly do like the large jaw face of these JCM clamps and the nice large handle as well. Too bad. You cannot conceal failure or incompetency for too long. And to think that poor ol' Joe Wood Worker (duh!) wouldn't notice he was buying an inferior product is a fallacy that some companies still don't understand. Anyone who has been around longer than a day or two can recall the shock that the American automobile industry felt when they realized that 'AMERICAN'S' were buying the bloody VW beetle's by the boat load. Why? Because they were sick and tired of spending their hard earned money on inferior American Fords and Chevies. There were, of course, other reasons but it is a fact that our automobile's at that time did not have longevity ingrained in their pedigree while the bug just seemed to keep going, and going, and .... now it's back!Anyway, I'm off the box. Good thing that I have 4 41" Bessey's which do work as advertised. Live and learn. I'm in the market for a pair of 60" bar clamps and was just about to spring for the JCM clamps which I see advertised in many catalogs. I never see the longer Bessey's advertised. No doubt they make'um, I just have to find'um.Regards,
Phillip
Phillip,
Before you go for the Bessey bar clamps, check out the Rockler bar clamps. I don't buy much from them unless I can't get it anywhere else since they're usually not price-competitive. But their bar clamps are excellent. One of the mags did a rating of a number of them, including Bessey and our old friend Jorgenson, and put Rockler way above the others. One big difference is that they stand up on their own, and are elevated high enough to allow you to swivel the crank with out rapping your knuckles. I bought a couple of their pipe clamps, and wish I'd gotten more then, but will get 'em later. I'm pretty sure they're price-comparable, and they do give a discount, for 4 or more. Let me know what you think.
Btw, I don't know where you bought your Cabinet Masters, but if you bought them at Woodcraft they'll takem them back no questions asked, and I think even Home Despot will give you a credit for them if they're defective.
Hope that helps,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Mitch, I hear you on the Rockler bar clamps. I don't buy anything from them because many years ago you had to be a member of their 'club' to get the good price. I don't 'club' nothing. Anyway, I do get their catalog and their bar clamps were mentioned in the FWW article a quoted in a prior post. The author mentioned that they 'stand tall' and stay put on the table - no flopping this way and that. Nice feature.I have several of the Jorgensen pipe clamps and do use them on the really long clamp-ups but I do not like them at all. For one, they have a very shallow reach which in not adequate at times. That is why I was contemplating the purchase of a pair of 60" JCM's.Anyway, I will take a look at them. Just a week or so ago I perused the Rockler catalog looking for 'membership clauses' and found none. So I will give them another thought.Oh, No! I did not buy my JCM's at Woodcraft, but over the years I have spent A LOT OF MONEY there. I don't even want to think about it. As I recall, I think my pay check was directly deposited into their account. Ha! I think I bought these through Amazon. I used to buy form Tool Crib of the North before they jumped into bed with Amazon.com.. What I have noticed is that Amazon is getting pretty pricey with their wood working items. Not for all of their stuff, but they can beat. If you get free shipping then all bets are off. I do keep all of my receipts so I'll have to look to be sure. And I almost forgot. I got an email from Lee Valley in which they said that they have never had a problem with the JCM. They have not, however, been carrying them for too long so perhaps then are only carrying the new-and-improved version.Thanks for your time.Regards,
Phillip
Phillip,
Hard to believe LV hasn't had any problems with the JCM's - it must be a recency thing. Also, have you checked out what Amazon's return policy on defective merchandise is? If they let you exchange the JCM's for Bessey K-clamps, at this point you'd only be spending a few extra bucks for a much superior product.
One of the reasons I suggested the pipe clamps and purchased them myself is that I'm increasingly running into situations where 48" or 60" just isn't long enough (Some people take drugs; I design big honkin' pieces...). So the pipe clamps have an inherent advantage for me in that I can always go lower, or if I need to go higher just get a longer pipe; but with a fixed-length bar clamp, it is what it is. And if Bessey did make a 72" or 84" K-clamp, I sure as hell couldn't afford it!
Let me know what comes of the Amazon return bid.
Regards,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
I'm not sure I understand your problem exactly; I know about these clamps, but have never used one.However, there might be some little "trick" to getting them to work right. For example, when I first started to accumulate the Bessey K Body clamps,, I had all sorts of problems. I store them on a rack in the fully open position, and the moveable end was sticking, and would not slide easily along the serated edge. I happened to mention this to a fellow cabinetmaker, and he looked at me like I just fell off the turnip truck. He took one of the clamps, held the moveable end, and rapped the stationary end on the floor -- and voila!Ever since I learned this dumb little trick, they work fine. The last I heard the Adjustable Clamp Co. was located somewhere around Chicago. Before you toss these clamps in the garbage, I would suggest you give them a call to find out if there is some one of these dumb tricks that will make them work right.
" ... The last I heard the Adjustable Clamp Co. was located somewhere around Chicago."My luck they'd be right next door: I live in Oak Park. As I said earlier, I couldn't get their web page to open so did not have a chance to find this out. In truth, I was not interested in where they resided, I just wanted to make it very clear to the Jorgensen Co. what I thought of their bloody Cabinet Master (CM) clamps. From what I have been able to ascertain, this jaw binding problem is (was?) an inherent design flaw. I solved it by leaving the screw travel at its half-way point. Done deal. I was, however, saying much more than "voila!" as I sought a to overcome my quandary with these stubborn clamps. So, one can surmise that what I discovered - after much trial and error - was indeed a "dumb little trick" which, no doubt unintended, was left for the consumer to determine on his/her own. I, too, use Bessey's and do like them. Mine are the older version, so the moveable jaw is not reversible. This is a feature which I have had occasion to need but once. That task was accomplished with the JCM's.BTW, I have read that you use a Mac. I use a G4 PowerBook, Safari, and all that. Never, ever, have a problem.Regards,
Phillip
<<"BTW, I have read that you use a Mac. I use a G4 PowerBook, Safari, and all that. Never, ever, have a problem.">>I am using an old G3, mostly Mozilla for a browser. Do you think that's part of the problem?
" ... Hard to believe LV hasn't had any problems with the JCM's - it must be a recency thing. "Mitch,I chat with the LV Customer Service folks on an "as-necessary" basis and they are always prompt with a response, but that is what they said. It is my gut feeling that they would not tolerate a faulty product for too long. Woodcraft didn't, so why would any other vendor."We have spoken to our return department and they informed us that they have not received any defective return clamps in the past year."That is a direct quote from LV's email which I received yesterday. Take it for what it's worth. IMHO, they gain nothing from dishonesty - no one does.Yes, I , too, appreciate the ability of pipe clamps to "adjust" in length as necessary. No problem with that. I do, however, much prefer a larger jaw contact surface which the Bessey's, JCM'S, et al provide. In addition, the fact that the jaw's are perfectly parallel to each other is a significant advantage. I use the smaller version of the Bessey's, the Uniclamp, and they are superior for small glue-ups. I am currently designing prototype boxes for a chocolatier and find these particular clamps indispensable. Needless to say, this parallelism is imperative for keeping my box corners as square as is humanly possible.Since I now know how to keep my JCM's from binding, there is no need to return them. However, "nikkiwood" has written that he believes the Jorgensen Co. is right here in my backyard - Chicago - so I would not have far to go if I did want to return them.Regards,
Phillip
Phillip,
Just to be clear, I wasn't challenging the veracity of Lee Valley's claim when I said it was hard to believe - that's why I said it must be a recency thing. But now that I think about it, if they just started carrying the line, and Adjustable Clamp has fixed the problem, it makes sense that they wouldn't have the same issues. Just wanted to clarify, since I don't think I've ever heard a bad word mentioned about L-V on this forum.Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Mitch,I never thought that you were "challenging the veracity of Lee Valley's claim" at all. It was my mistake if I gave you that impression. I apologize for not being clear in that regard. BTW, I did read somewhere in this forum of someone who had tangled with an LV rep who was, apparently having a bad day - or something. I don't recall all the details, but I'm sure it does happen. They are human after all. The best policy to espouse is that "the customer is always right". That will prevent folks like us from letting off a lot'a steam at their expense in this forum. Works every time, I believe.As for me, I've never had a problem with LV, Woodcraft, Amazon, Japan Woodworker, Garret-Wade, et al. So, I guess I've been pretty lucky. I do have to say that I really do my homework before I make any purchase, so I feel that I'm getting what I really need and not for any other reason. I TRY not to buy so much from Amazon because I would much rather support the smaller vendor who has a difficult time competing with the Amazon's in his world. But sometimes the deal is too good to pass up, so you gotta go with Amazon. What usually does it is the FREE SHIPPING. Life!Take care, my friend. I hope I cleared the air. Have a good weekend.Regards,
Phillip
Hi Phillip. I see the 'old' style Gross Stabil's at woodworking shows all the time, but they are starting to run out. The new ones have the removable ends for spreading and are Scott Phillips series. I have been buying the old ones for about 60% of the new ones. I have seen plenty of large 60" and above clamps. I find them to be fairly decent and I will probably buy more as long as I still find them at the great price. Peter
Hello to you, sir!Thanks for jumpin' in. I was at a hugh antique fair in Michigan (Silene??) last year and never gave clamps a second thought. Hard to fly with anyway. I was looking for old moulding planes and did indeed find a nice one. I don't use them, of course, but I have always wanted to get my hands on a very old one. I make my own wooden planes so there is a curiosity in that respect. This old plane is stamped with the maker's name, from somewhere in NY, I believe.Anyway, you have a great idea. I will have to look around for shows in the Chicago area. Bound to be something here for sure.Regards,
Phillip
Phillip:
I've had the same problem and solved just as you stated. Also, if you will look at the bar you will probably find a small nick and raised metal caused by the head. If you will file it smooth it will help to prevent future grabs.
I also was told that the metal bar on the more recent clamps has been changed to prevent the sticking from occurring.
Roger
Herg,Thanks for tuning in. I will indeed take a look at that.I really like these clamps but this problem was beginning to gnaw at me. The fact that the moveable jaw can be reversed is great and a feature not found on my Bessey's. I believe that this is no longer the case on the newer Bessey's. Too bad for me.Wonder if Jorgensen - if they're still in business - will replace all of my CM clamps with the newer non-stick models? Sounds like a lot of work to me now that I've figured out how to keep them from sticking shut. Thanks again.Regards,
Phillip
The site http://www.adjustableclamp.com/ works. I did have to hit refresh once to get to to load.
Phillip:Adjustable Clamp Co.: http://www.adjustableclamp.com/index.htmlAddresses are on main page.Leon Jester
Thank you, sir!I will indeed put this to very good news first thing tomorrow. And trust me, I will report all of what I learn back to you and others ASAP.BTW, I see that you are from Roanoke. My 'financial advisor's" daughter used to live in Blacksburg. Her daughter's husband used to teach at Virginia Tech. The area was beautiful. I photographed their wedding which took place about 45 minutes or so from Blacksburg in the mountains at some state park. The wedding was in October so you can imagine all the colors of the foliage and trees at that time of year. It was great. Nice state.Anyway, thanks for the link and I will let you know how it went.Regards,
Phillip
I've had the same problem and solved just as you stated. Also, if you will look at the bar you will probably find a small nick and raised metal caused by the head. If you will file it smooth it will help to prevent future grabs.
What's to keep the nick from happening again? I had this problem on one I ordered from Woodworker's Supply and they replaced it. Most plans for clamp storage racks show the clamps stored closed, which gives an opportunity for them to stick shut. I made a clamp rack that looks like a ladder. I store my J-C clamps with the front jaw on one rung and the back jaw on the next rung and the handle behind that rung. They are easy to remove by sliding the handle end up tto clear its rung. The clamps are never closed!
Another problem I found with this style of clamp is that they will easily slide closed if held by the handle with the clamp vertical. I had this happen with an open 48" clamp that I was trying to remove with one hand and my thumb was inside the lower jaw. I don't know why it was not broken - it felt like it. After an x-ray the doctor said that it was badly brused. I never realized how often I used that thumb until it was incapacitated for several weeks.
TEX
Phillip- I've discovered the same trick also. I've actually been pretty happy with the Cabinet Master clamps I've got, until two nights ago when I broke one, tightening it up (one handed even). The piece that broke is a casting, something that I'm sure would have been fine if it had been solid stock. I hope this isn't the start of problems with these. I bought eight of them, used mostly for clamping up cabinet doors.
Mike
I'm sorry to hear that. Thanks for jumpin' in. NOT GOOD AT ALL! How old are your clamps? Were they all purchased at the same time? I have to say that I really like mine. I have Bessey's as well, but when I get to the clamp rack I always reach for a JCM when I know that the Bessey's would work just as well. So, having said that, I guess I really prefer the JCM's over the Besseys. Stupid really, knowing how much trouble I've had with these bloody clamps. My ex would say, "See. I told you he was kinda loony." I'd have a hard look at that casting to see if the you can spot evidence of a prior crack due to faulty manufacturing. I also wonder if Jorgensen is having their parts stamped off-shore and then assembled here so they can say "Made in U.S.A." All of this import, trade deficit thing has got my blood percolating. You NEVER know what you're buying.Case in point. My "financial advisor" just bought a new VW bug. Nice and all that. I'm a truck guy so don't expect any objectivity here. Anyway, it starts acting funny. Like the alarm goes off WHILE I'M IN IT IN THE PARKING LOT OF A LARGE GROCERY STORE WHERE EVERYONE IS LOOKING AND THE SECURITY GUY IS HEADING MY WAY. Man! I wanted to crawl into the ashtray. I could not shut the stupid thing up. I call the VW dealer and we have a CONFERENCE CALL with the sales manager and the service dept rep and they don't have a clue. Great! Just great. I just know the security guy is calling the Chicago Police. Anyway, we try everything and finally get it off. So, a few weeks later we had just driven to Michigan on some business. Car ran fine getting there and now it won't even turn over. Just makes a clicking noise. Like a sick duck. Tow truck comes and can't even jump it. Into the VW dealer we go. Bottom line. You'd better be sitting for this: the battery WAS CRACKED! This, of course, allowed battery acid to flow out and munch some nice, juicy VW electronic modules. But even stranger - for me at least - is that we never, ever smelt the acid. In my day, I've spent a LOT of time tinkering with automobiles, er, well, my mom wasn't sure it should have been classified as such: no hood, bad paint, noisy, strange friends, and so on. Anyway, I do know what battery acid smells like so VW must have 'sanitized' theirs. Any way, the point in all of this is that during this fiasco, I found out that the car was "Hecho en Mexico". Cheap labor across the border, senor! Do they care if they dropped the battery 'by accident' before they put it in? Do they even KNOW they dropped the battery? Hello! Anybody home? I mean how else do you crack a battery casing. You overheated it by running your iPod too long while plugged into the cigarette lighter? I don't think so. You crack it by dropping it. Period.I'm off the box. We spend hard earned money on inferior products and some say, "well, you got what you paid for." Oh, yeah! Let's go back to the JCM clamps. Their price is comparable to the Bessey's so you would naturally expect them to be comparable in value. Is that too much to assume? One of our major criteria when shopping is price. If an item is way out of line, we blow it off. Period. If price is comparable, then we start fine tuning our selection process. You know how it works. But when you get a "comparable' item and it starts behaving like a rock, then you know that you've been had. And that's not a good feeling. Not at all.I lied. I admit it. I wasn't off the box. I am now for sure. Let us know more on your clamp problem. Take care.Regards,
Phillip
Phillip, I bought these clamps probably 3 or 4 months ago. Looking at it closer, the clamp actually broke in two places on the casting that the screw threads into. I took it back to mhy local tool dealer yesterday and was given a new one. They said that this has been a problem with these clamps, I wasn't the first to break one. They said that Jorgenson has acknowledged the problem, and they are supposed to replace them as they are returned.
Mike
Mike,That's good news! It's also good to know that Jorgersen has acknowledged they have a problem with these clamps as well. It creates good will by them doing so. As I said, I really do like these clamps, so I hope they get the bugs out of the design. Perhaps they already have.What kind of wood work do you do? Stay in touch.Regards,
Phillip
Just an update, the clamp that they gave me as a replacement broke. First time I used it, just clamping up a frame & panel door. The main casting snapped just about like the first one did. I actually didn't realize it was broke, until I was taking the door out of the clamps. I guess the cams had caught just enough to stay tight to the bar. (When the first clamp broke, I heard a snap, so I knew something was wrong) I took it back and got another replacement today. He said he was going to call the company right away to see when they are supposed to be shipping out their improved model. Didn't stick around to see he actually did or not. So anyways, I'll try another one. I just couldn't believe it that this one broke. I was tightening it one-handed, and cope & stick joints don't take a lot of pressure.
BTW, probably never did introduce myself over here. I post a bit over on Breaktime. I am a carpenter, and also do a lot of custom cabinets, doors & other woodworking type projects. Someday, I might even finish my wifes list of furniture she wants for our house. :)
Mike
Mike,Man, everybody's got some story or another about these clamps. Sounds to me like you got your hands on old stock clamps - TWICE!! You must have the patience of Job. I was in New Mexico for a week or so and had a chance to see the new improved Cabinet Master's at a local Home Depot. The casting was black and had a plastic insert attached to the moveable jaw. The design looks the same, perhaps the plastic spacer helps to keep it from binding. I couldn't get it to hang up and that's good news. Nothing worse than a clamp that you cannot use.I do not know exactly how long I've had mine (3-4 years??) but I see no indication of cracking at all. They WILL bind up but I now know how to prevent that from happening. Anyway, I will buy JCM's again. As Mitch and other's have said, Jorgensen/Adjustable Clamp Co will back their clamps up 100%. And one other thing: They are an American company which make's their products in AMERICA. Wonder how many companies can say that??Take care,
Phillip
PhillipB,
I gotta tell you, I love my JCM's and bought them because of the sticking problems I was having with the Bessys....but, to be sure, it was the half price sale that closed the deal.
Initally the JCM's gave me some of the sticking issues you have mentioned, and like you, I found keeping the handle half way works. In addition, after use, I close them up gently by hand, and store them standing up head side down..no problems. My Bessy's also work better treated this way too...I think hanging cabinet clamps and letting them slam closed causes difficulties.
At anyrate, I'm sorry for your problems, but for me, I'll buy more JCM's before I'll buy Bessy's ...of course, nothings being bought till another fabulous sale...lol
BG,Good to hear from you.You hit on something that never occurred to me: clamp racks! As I NOW recall, my JCM sticking problems began in earnest AFTER I began hanging them on my new clamp rack. My shop is in the basement of our bungalow and keeping it tidy is a 24/7 occupation. So, getting all of my clamps - or most of them (my Quik-Grip type clamps I just clamp onto my floor joists overhead) - off of the floor was a natural and very logical part of this plan. This greatly improved accessibility in addition to saving time.Hmmm ... This is puzzling. You would think that designer's of these things would at least consider that consumer's of these products just might want to hang them from clamp racks. So, having said that, it's difficult for me to fathom that if the design of this particular style of clamp is prone to jamming if hung with its jaws upright in a clamp rack, one would think: (1) the designer's would be clever enough to "design this out", or (2), failing that, they would WARN the consumer of this tendency so we would not spend our lives trying to figure out we can use our clamps as clamps and not as weapons for clubbing the manufacturer. I mean they have ridiculous warning labels for everything else we purchase such as:"Warning. The Surgeon General has determined that drinking battery acid could cause severe liver damage. Pregnant mothers should abstain as serious damage could be inflicted on your unborn child. Death could occur if taken in sufficiently large doses." So why not some "fine print" for lowly Joe W. Worker. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that manufacturer's are wary that if they did that we would not purchase their product(s). Who knows?Anyway, I will not un-hang my clamps. But - thanks to you, sir - I have 'refined' my clamp orientation by 180 degrees. This is only possible with the JCM's (now, isn't that ironic!) because of the removable 'foot' attached at the end of the bar. This device fits my clamp rack perfectly which enables the clamp to be hung head down. Perfect. Life is good.Now that that's a "done deal", I want to tell you that I have not ignored your comment on fine furniture which you posted on Feb 9:"But isn't all this 'quality furniture' talk really just relative? "I will respond to that in a few days or sooner. I posted two photos of my "new" clamp rack for you to see. I apologize for the photos blowing up to 'wall size', but I have no idea how to restrict that. They never do that on my computer, but when I test them prior to Posting, they always do that. Another puzzle. Anyone listening?? Thanks again. Take care.Regards,
PhillipP.S. Just in case, the clamp racks ($18) came from Hartville Tool: http://www.hartvilletool.com/index.php
Phillipb,
That is a nice rack for the clamps...looks well organized and takes up little space. Just to one up ya on the space issue, my shop is so small, I attached strapping to those beams and hang the clamps from there....I have a rolling cart underneath the clamps that holds my sharpening station...one false move and I get clobbered with falling clamps...lol.
Here is the solution others seem to use most to size down big pics:http://www.irfanview.com/I can't tell you anything about it, since I don't have a digital camera. But maybe you can figure it out. Aparently it is pretty easy.
Thank you very much. Funny, but I had just finished sending you a missive/query on your INCA's when your msg popped in.I have not taken the time to explore iPhoto. It may have that capability as well. I did Book Mark the link you provided.I thought everyone owned a digital camera. No? Ha, ha, ...Thanks again.Regards,
Phillip
It's interesting that so many clamp racks are designed to hang the clamp from the bottom jaw. I always hang my clamps by light clamping both jaws around the hanging bar, or whatever I'm attaching to. In addition to keeping sufficient slack in the screw handle to lossen the clamp should it slam shut, this keeps me from needing to deal with a closed clamp pretty much anytime.Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
<<"I thought everyone owned a digital camera.">>Actually, I got one for a present a year or so ago, and have not yet taken it from the box. It's not that I am a Luddite, but I am kind of in the Dark Ages technologically.One of these days, though .............
hi --
read this post with interest because i was about to buy a couple of jorgensen's cabinet clamps -- after reading a review that said they were better than bessey's.and funny thing, in the store, i couldn't get 'em to open reliably. they stuck -- but i guess i thought i was just a newbie. (i am)please let us know what happens when you talk to the mfr -- and if their newest shipments have been re-engineered, etc.
flipstuff - welcome to the Knots Forum.That's pretty funny about the Jorgensen's sticking in the store. They really are great clamps as long as you can keep the jaws apart. Reminds me of my ex-mother-in-law. I sure used to wish her jaws would stick shut. Ha! She's probably pushing daisies by now. Oh, well ...Yes, I will definitely report back on what I find out tomorrow. I know that manufacturers probably cringe when they find out that we've been chatting'em up, but that's what we do here. What better place to learn about their own products than from the folks that use them. Makes sense to me.I have both Bessey's and the Jorgensen Cabinet Masters (JCM). Both ARE good clamps but for some reason I always reach for the JCM's. If you read all the posts in this thread, you know that if you hang them head down, they won't stick. It's a gravity thing.Take care,
Phillip
thanks for the welcome. and i'll look forward to hearing about the new clamp shipments. i'd like to get the jorgies if i can -- i hear there's more surface area.you asked about image sizing -- well, i'm a graphic designer by profession and have been working with images in photoshop for nearly 15 years, so maybe i can help.i have a text file with some background and three simple guidelines that should help out. you can find it here:
http://fillipdesign.com/sizing_images/sizing_images.doccheers
philip di paoloaka "flipstuff_1"
Edited 2/22/2005 7:37 am ET by flipstuff_1
Phillip,
That is the obvious solution. When I first hired my helper (being a meticulous person) he always bottomed out the clamps as you described. We mostly use Bessey tradesmen clamps and I literally had to beat some of them on the floor to get them open. Actually beating them on the floor didn't help but by that time I was really pissed. :-) It was the first time he witinessed me loose my cool. Now he knows not to do that!
Mike
Mike,I wanted to smack Mr. Jorgensen on the head with his bloody clamps. I mean, I could not use them as CLAMPS, so why not use them as clubs. Believe me, I completely understand how you felt.And yeah, I always bottomed out my clamps when done - after cleaning and wiping down, of course, er, ... well, most of the time.I certainly learned my lesson on these clamps, but it's nice to know that I was not alone in all of this. Collectively, we truly do help one another by "airing out our feelings" on what is bothering us and hoping someone will pitch in with his or her solution to the same dillemma. Works every time.Regards,
Phillip
Hello to all of you
This is my first post so please bare with me.
BEFORE you do anything to the inside of your building take a look at the outside of it. All of the work and money spent on the inside will be of naught if the main problem is water coming in from the outside. Make sure the landscaping is in a way that water will run away from the building and not into the building. Another place to look at is the eves of the roof. Are there gutters? If not, then some should be put in place to chanel the water, agian, away from the building.
At my house i had water coming into the basement. The previous owner had done all kinds of things inside the house to try to solve the problem, but to no avail. The house sits on the side of a mountain and there for the water was running down the mountain and right into the house. When I had the driveway redone, which runs up behind the house, I had the contractor put in a reverse crown as it run up behind the house. This stopped the water from getting to the house from run off from the mountian. Then I put in a "french drain" to pull any water way that may have gotten past that point. The last thing I did was to install bigger gutters then was on the roof and to make sure the down spouts funneled the water way from the house.
The results was a dry basement ever since.
I hope that I have been of some help.
Dane
I am such a beginner at wood working that i have to look up to that point.
There have been some issues with the Cabinet Master Clamp since its introduction in 2001. I will try to answer your questions the best I can, and if you want to post this on your forum, feel free to do that.
The first point I’d like to make is that we stand behind our products 100%! If anyone has a problem or question regarding a Pony¯, Jorgensen¯ or Adjustable™ brand product, they can contact our customer service dept. at: 312.666.0640 or email to: [email protected]. If you prefer to contact me directly, my email is: [email protected], or just ask for Jim when you call the phone number above. Adjustable Clamp Company is the last full-line manufacturer of clamps in the U.S.A., we have to be better in quality and service, and we strive for that every day.
Regarding the Cabinet Master¯, we have made several changes in materials and manufacturing since its introduction. The last engineering change was made over 1-1/2 years ago, and since then, we have had what we would consider almost no problems.
If you’ve had a problem with your clamp “jamming” or “sticking”, let me know, we have a very simple “retro-kit” to eliminate this problem.
If you’ve had a problem with the casting breaking, please contact us for a retro-kit.
The most common question I get is: “I haven’t had a problem with my clamps yet, but should I ask for the retro-kit anyway?” If you haven’t had a problem with your clamps, you most likely are going to be fine – no need to ask for parts. If you have a problem going forward, know that we will take care of you.
I know that the Cabinet Master¯ we are building today is the finest parallel jaw bar clamp on the market today – with more capacity, features and yes – quality than any other clamp on the market. You have my word on it!
I hope this information has been helpful, please let me know if you have any further questions, or if there is anything I can do to help. Thanks.
Jim Luley
Customer Service Manager
(AKA “Clamp Man” on wood net forum)
Adjustable Clamp Company
Phone: 312.666.0640
Fax: 312.666.2723
email: [email protected]
website: http://www.adjustableclamp.com
Jim/CLAMPMAN,
You're to be commended for stepping up to the plate and not only taking responsibility, but ID'ing yourself and giving your direct contact info. Kudos!
That said, if your last re-engineering of the design was over 18 months ago, and people are still having problems with the clamp, you're losing market share to Bessey, retro-kit or not. If I have to return the clamp once or more - and as you can see from this thread, it's not uncommon - I can't afford to take the risk that the JCM's going to break down when I need it most.
And as you can see, even though every buyer who returned a defective product had theirs replaced with a brand new one, this hasn't done much if anything to stop the increasing reputation of the JCM as a flawed product. I had to replace one of mine twice, once because the clamp tip actually broke off the tip of the screw (uncommon), and once because it clamped shut and I couldn't unlock it (very common). At the recent Chantilly Woodworking Show, I bought two 60" Bessey K-Clamps, despite the fact that they have slightly shorter throats, because I knew that I could depend on them. I know my decision was not only not unique, but was probably very common.
If you know that the JCM has a design defect which tends to cause it to lock up, or another defect which tends to cause the frame to break in a specific area, I think Adjustable Clamp owes it to itself to re-tool the JCM manufacturing process, rather than offer retro-kits to people after their clamp has already broken.
If you did a cost/benefit analysis, I think that conclusion would be clear. You take in a LOT of defective clamps each year, and manufacture a LOT of retro-kits. Compare the cost of re-tooling, vs. the benefits of your ability to claim that that the JCM is as dependable as the Bessey K-Clamp, but with greater capacity and other advantages (a claim you cannot make today), and the savings you'd make on significantly reduced returns and eliminating the need to manufacture retro-kits, and re-tooling/re-engineering makes the decision to re-tool a no-brainer.
I hope Adjustable Clamp can see it's way clear to make the necessary changes to the basic JCM design, because IMHO it's just going to keep losing market share until it does. Dependability in a clamp is far more valuable to a woodworker than an extra centimeter or two in throat capacity.
Respectfully submitted,
Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Edited 3/6/2005 11:05 am ET by mvac
Edited 3/6/2005 11:06 am ET by mvac
Edited 3/6/2005 11:06 am ET by mvac
Edited 3/6/2005 12:58 pm ET by mvac
Edited 3/6/2005 12:59 pm ET by mvac
Hi Mitch,
Possibly you didn't understand my reply, but since our last change in the Cabinet Master - ALL problems with this clamp have become almost non-existent. The only problems we still deal with are the folks that have the "older" design. EVERY owner of a Jorgensen, Pony or Adjustable Clamp product gets the best customer service we can provide - WE WILL FIX THE PROBLEM.
Hope this helps - thanks for your post.
Jim Luley
I just wanted to post a message on the website that I contacted CLAMPMAN about a Jorgensen clamp and he immediately took care of the problem(which by the way was from a dropped clamp). I am really impressed with the response and have been very happy with all of my Jorgensen Cabinet Master clamps. When I need some more clamps, I will certainly get Jorgensen.
I have a few Bessy's and one Cabinet Master. Both style of clamps will "stick" occasionally but I've never had that problem when they were tight against stock. Usually it is after I've removed them and want to move the bottom jaw and it needs a bit of a hit to loosen it. The Cabinet Master is by far the smoother operating of the two. I can make it tighter or looser against the stock with a feel of precision which is just not present with the Bessy's. I thought it was the larger handle or the thread style but I don't really know why. Another advantage of the cabinet master is the smooth rod that does not allow glue to stick to it. Glue seems to stick hard to the Bessy's Overall I like the Cabinet Master the best. Somebody here said that they are not manufacturing them any more and that would be a shame. I bought my Cabinet Master clamp from Lee Valley if that makes a difference.
Glen
I haven't had this lock up happen yet, but how precisely do you hit it to open it? The one message said to hold the handle and hit the floor but with what part of the clamp do I hit the floor? And how hard are we talking here? And is it a hard floor or carpet ok?
Thanks,Edward
Glen,Thanks for your comments.I do not know where you heard that Jorgensen was not manufacturing these clamps but as far as I know they are still making them. Mr. Luley, who is the Jorgensen rep, never said that. In fact, I just had my hands on one of the NEW Cabinet Masters (black casting) while I was away in New Mexico. They are very nice and did not bind.Yes, I agree with you - the Cabinet Masters are great clamps. I, too, have Besseys but I prefer the Cabinet Masters as you do.If you have any questions, I would email Mr. Luley. [email protected] I'm sure he would be more than happy to address your concerns.Regards,
Phillip
My mistake. I thought the earlier posts suggested that they were not being manufactured. I'm glad to see that they are still being made.
It would have been ironic if they had stopped making them because recently the local Home Depot sold off all of their Bessy's and are now just selling Cabinet Masters as well as some other brands.
Hi All,
I had a long talk yesterday with Jim Luley of Adjustable Clamp Co. He explained a lot of things that make me confident my concerns about the quality of the JCM going forward are unwarranted. For one thing, the clamps I had problems with were clamps manufactured before the last engineering change. For another, I haven't had any problems with my any of my JCMs since. If they were going to break, they were going to break early.
I'm sure it's happened somewhere before, but I can't remember a manufacturer making itself so available and accessible. Jim not only left us all his personal contact information, but he called me at home after I'd written him offline. I have the sense that he's genuine when he says that ACC stands behind all of their products, and as far as I know anyone who's had any problem in the past has been given a replacement, no questions asked.
Finally, I was not paid or otherwise bribed, nor am I in an altered state of mind (early Alzheimer's notwithstanding), as I write this. I just respect the company's integrity, along with a logical explanation for the past problems.
Finally, a word about the castings. As someone mentioned, the black castings are the newer clamps. But if your JCMs with the silver castings haven't broken down yet, they're not going to.
I hope I've conveyed to you the confidence Jim conveyed to me. I'll be buying more JCMs, just as others on the thread have said they would as well. Feel free to e-mail me or reply in the thread with any questions.
Regards,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Glen,The part about Home Depot makes sense because that's were I saw the black JCM's I told you about. I live in Chicago and the HD closest to me does NOT carry the JCM's. Who knows???Take care,
Phillip
Hi Glen - We do manufacture the Cabinet Master right here in Chicago - made in the USA! HTH
Happy Clamping!
Jim
2014 and black casting brand new clamp
Wow, all these posts from 2005 about a problem and now 9 years later and my first pair of JCM clamps (#8036) and I can't get them to open.
All the Home Depots in my area are no longer carrying them and I got the last pair, still in the shipping box. Home Depot is carrying them online only however.
But what is the trick. procedure to open them for use?
Ken
2014 and black casting brand new clamp
Wow, all these posts from 2005 about a problem and now 9 years later and my first pair of JCM clamps (#8036) and I can't get them to open.
All the Home Depots in my area are no longer carrying them and I got the last pair, still in the shipping box. Home Depot is carrying them online only however.
But what is the trick. procedure to open them for use?
Ken
Good Grief
This thread makes me pine for more of those UK kitchen cabinet spams...
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