Jorgensen’s Response To JCM Problem
To All,
This post is in reference to the problems some (most?) of us who own the Jorgensen Cabinet Master clamps have with this clamps tendency to bind shut. In addition, some are experiencing the actual breaking of the jaw head due to a flaw in the casting or forging itself.
After all of the discussion
(see http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=21785.1),
I decided to email Jorgensen to get their response. That was a week ago and to date have not received a reply.
The only available method to reach them is via their Sales Department:
Their website is: http://www.adjustableclamp.com/index.html
My email to them was as follows:
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Good Morning,
I have several of your Cabinet Master (CM) clamps and have been experiencing a problem with them: the jaws bind together and are very difficult to separate. No doubt you are aware of this. There is a lot of chat on some wood working forums in regards this binding issue and I have found that my problem is not an isolated one.
You may also be aware that in the Fine Wood Working issue #172, October 2004, there was an article on bar and pipe clamps entitled, “Bar Clamps, Head to Head”. This article included your clamps in which the author said, “My only minor complaint about the Jorgensen Cabinet Master is that the sliding jaw occasionally did not engage and grip the bar, but a simple giggle of the handle usually took care of the problem.” In my experience, a simple “giggle” never worked. I have had my clamps for about 2-3 years and have had this problem from day one.
Do you have a solution to this? I have a rack of clamps which include your clamps and Bessey K-bodys. I always reach for the CM’s because I prefer them, in spite of this persistent and nagging flaw. So you may assume correctly that I prefer the CM’s over the K-Body’s. I have no desire to exchange my clamps or even return them. I simply want to know your solution to this problem.
What I have found, after much frustration, is that if you hang the clamps head down, they will not hang up. I always close and “bottom out” the screw mechanism before hanging them up and found that doing so with the jaw head in the clamp rack guarantees that they will be difficult to disengage.
About a month ago, I received an email stating that Woodcraft had pulled your CM’s from their racks. I received their February 2005 catalog a week or so ago, and indeed, your CM clamps are not included in their catalog. This is too bad. Lee Valley Customer Service has told me that they have not had any problems with returns in regards your clamps. I order a lot from LV and many of us hold that particular company in VERY HIGH regard. The quality of their Veritas products and their business practices make other companies pale in comparison. It does not seem plausible that they would mislead me (us) in this matter.
I have heard of the clamp castings breaking, or cracking. I have also heard that you have improved these clamps and eliminated all of these problems. About a week ago, I received an email from a gentleman who had the jaws of your clamps bind in a store he was recently in an decided not to purchase them at that time. I am certain about Woodcraft’s actions and LV’s response, but I am not about an improved CM clamp. There is a lot of misinformation being bandied about with respect to your clamps. I, and others no doubt, would like to know the truth in this matter.
I will soon be in the market for several longer clamps such as your CM and would like some reassurance that these problems no longer exist before making my purchase. I know that the K-Body’s will not bind, but again, I would like to use your clamps if possible.
My only purpose in emailing you is to help my follow wood workers and you the manufacturer of this fine clamp. Hopefully, that can be done in a timely fashion.
I look forward to hearing from you and will post your response on the Knots forum so we may clear this matter up.
Thank you for your time.
Regards,
Phillip Anthony Briles
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So, as far as I’m concerned, their indifference is indicative that they do not care whether I (we) buy their products or not. It could be argued that another email should be sent to someone other than Sales. I concur with this, however, their website leaves you with no other choice than to use the Sales link (see links above). If anyone knows of another method of reaching someone other than Sales, I’d like to be made aware of it.
It appears that Bessey will get my money.
I look forward to anyone’s comments in this regard.
Phillip
P.S. I will be unavailable between March 1-7 as we are going back to New Mexico to EAT! We miss the food terribly.
Replies
You might want to go over to the WoodNET forum (http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=). A Jorgenson representitive participates there and answers to the forum name of "Clampman". You can direct a question to him to see if he responds. He has answered questions regarding clamp problems in the past. I haven't seen any issues raised recently.
Thanks, Howie -I'll do just that. Regards,
Phillip
Hello!If you are a Jorgensen rep, would you please reply to this message. I have emailed your company about your Cabinet Master clamps and have not received a response.Regards,
Phillip
Howie, thanks for posting the residence of Clampman. I remembered his participation in one of the forums, but I couldn't remember which one it was! He was very helpful back during the big Anniversary Sale, which is when I bought my 4 Cabinetmasters.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I bought eight Cabinet Masters from Woodcraft during the fire sale. I've not had the binding problem, except that once in awhile I'll need to pull the handle up (away from the bar) and giggle it to get the head to move. I haven't and don't consider it a big problem.
I also had one of the castings crack during a glueup. I called Jorgensen the next day and they immediately sent out, at their expense, a new casting. The original ones had this tendency to crack because of something in the casting process. The new ones don't have that problem (the new ones are black).
I'm sure they are not ignoring you on purpose. Generic mail to "sales" at yadayada.com probably sits around until somebody isn't busy.
John
John,Thanks for the information. And yes, my original email probably is just sittin' around, that is the purpose of this thread: I want to find another source at Jorgensen to communicate with. I have found out how to keep my CM's from sticking. I just want to know whether they have an improved model on the market before I invest in any more Cabinet Masters. If they did improve this clamp then I wonder why Woodcraft would have pulled these clamps from their shelves. Their latest catalog did not list the JCM's so that says something.Anyway, I did email "Clampman" as Howie suggested. I did that here and at Woodnet. Time will tell.Thanks again,
Phillip
I'll be interested to hear more on this. I bought 4 of the CMs the middle of last year when HD put them on sale. Mine have the black casting. I picked up ahead of time that I should close them with the screw in the middle of its travel so that the head can always be loosened to slide, and that's how I store and use them. I have had no trouble with them sticking shut or refusing to lock to the bar. The CMs have done very well for dozens of glue ups and several spreading jobs.
The only oddity is that you have to pay attention to what the black casting is doing. Pull the handle up to swing it back relative to the bar before sliding the head. Push its base (sliding along the bar) toward the work to start the lock action before tightening the clamp. People who only pay attention to the orange head and handscrew may have problems with the CMs. It's the black casting that does the work and has to be locked/unlocked.
dwright,Thanks for taking your time to respond to this.I never knew that any of these clamps came with a black casting. Maybe those are the ones which are cracking. And I agree with you when you say that they do work well for their intended purpose so long as you can keep them from binding shut. Using the screw as you described is also new to me. Seems as though many folks have been having a universal problem with these clamps. That is too bad because these are very good clamps in my opinion.I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for Jorgensen to respond. As you may have read, Howie suggested contacting "Clampman" who purportedly works for Jorgensen and I did just that. We'll see if he responds. I personally have never seen that name in any discussion that I can recall. Who knows?I will be out of touch for a week beginning tomorrow, so perhaps when I return I will find that someone has heard something. Take care.Regards,
Phillip
Phillip,
I have seen Clampman posts, I think @ Woodnet. He does appear to be associated with Jorgenson. Hopefully he will reply.
According to johnhardy above the black castings are the non-cracking ones:
"The original ones had this tendency to crack because of something in the casting process. The new ones don't have that problem (the new ones are black)."
I have applied firm clamping force with mine. You can tell by the clamp design (turned wood handle instead of crank) that they aren't intended to be really torqued down. Maybe moderation is the key, or maybe earlier castings were too weak.
The clamp design is interesting. The orange bodies are designed to run parallel with the bar. The casting and handle push against the steel lined orange body which in turn pushes against the work. That's how the parallel clamping action is accomplished. Problems with these clamps seem to vary from woodworker to woodworker. I think that's because some people happen to pick up and use them in one way, other people do it a different way, and the correct way is difficult to put in an instruction manual - not that clamps should need a manual. The best advice I can offer is to pay attention to the bar, the handle, and the casting. Things go pretty smoothly after the clamp & release relationships are clear.
Best,
Dave
Dave,Again, thanks for your post.Jorgensen just sent me their response and it is duly posted for all to see. Regards,
Phillip
TO ALL!!
Here is Jorgensen's response to my email regarding their Cabinet Master clamps.
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From:
Jim Luley <[email protected]>
Date:
Mon Feb 28, 2005 09:40:29 AM CST
Subject:
Cabinet Master Bar Clamps
Good Morning Phillip,
First of all, let me apologize for the delay in getting back to you, I was out of town on business most of last week, and I’m doing some catch-up now. There have been some issues with the Cabinet Master Clamp since its introduction in 2001. I will try to answer your questions the best I can, and if you want to post this on your forum, feel free to do that.
The first point I’d like to make is that we stand behind our products 100%! If anyone has a problem or question regarding a Pony¯, Jorgensen¯ or Adjustable™ brand product, they can contact our customer service dept. at: 312.666.0640 or email to: [email protected]. If you prefer to contact me directly, my email is: [email protected], or just ask for Jim when you call the phone number above. Adjustable Clamp Company is the last full-line manufacturer of clamps in the U.S.A., we have to be better in quality and service, and we strive for that every day.
Regarding the Cabinet Master¯, we have made several changes in materials and manufacturing since its introduction. The last engineering change was made over 1-1/2 years ago, and since then, we have had what we would consider almost no problems.
If you’ve had a problem with your clamp “jamming” or “sticking”, let me know, we have a very simple “retro-kit” to eliminate this problem.
If you’ve had a problem with the casting breaking, please contact us for a retro-kit.
The most common question I get is: “I haven’t had a problem with my clamps yet, but should I ask for the retro-kit anyway?” If you haven’t had a problem with your clamps, you most likely are going to be fine – no need to ask for parts. If you have a problem going forward, know that we will take care of you.
I know that the Cabinet Master¯ we are building today is the finest parallel jaw bar clamp on the market today – with more capacity, features and yes – quality than any other clamp on the market. You have my word on it!
I hope this information has been helpful, please let me know if you have any further questions, or if there is anything I can do to help. Thanks.
Jim Luley
Customer Service Manager
(AKA “Clamp Man” on wood net forum)
Adjustable Clamp Company
Phone: 312.666.0640
Fax: 312.666.2723
email: [email protected]
website: http://www.adjustableclamp.com
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There it is, folks!
Those of you with any issues in regards these clamps can reach Mr. Luley directly. He has left little doubt that Jorgensen will stand behind their products 100% and that is very good news. Some of you already know this from your own personal experience with Jorgensen. Those of you with some reservations in buying these clamps can now make your purchase in confidence. I know I certainly will.
I want to say "Thank You!" to all of you who contributed to this post. I learned a great deal from all of you. I especially want to say "Thank You!" to Taunton for giving us this great forum which enables us to solve problems such as this. Without Knots, we would not have the collective voice that we do.
Warm Regards,
Phillip
My god are you serious? The solution is SO simple. DON'T BOTTOM OUT THE SCREW WHEN YOU CLOSE THE JAW. Any clamp will stick! Just look at the design. It is not a defect. I suppose there might be a way engineer a fix, but really, is it necessary?
Mike
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