Just Cut Down a Big Oak Tree, What Now
wcf
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
I just felled an 85 year old oak tree and have segmented into logs about 6 to 10 feet long. My plans are to make all the furniture in a cabin up in northern Minnesota.
My questions are:
1. Should I seal the ends of the logs until they are run through the sawmill?
2. Is there any waiting or seasoning period required before the logs are rough milled?
3. Anyone know of any good books on the subject?
Replies
Yep, nope, yep.
Tons of books are out there but I don't know of any particular ones.
Oh yeah, if the tree was a 'yard' tree, probably no mill will touch it unless it's a bandsaw mill and you agree to buy extra blades to replace those torn up by metal in the tree.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
Yep, nope, yep.Hardly gets better advice in fewer words than that... GOOD POST! LOLWell, I loved it...
Now the real work begins!
If you're asking the question, you waited too long to seal the ends. You should put the chain saw down and pick up a brush when felling lumber logs.
I'd cut 6" or so off of each end of each log until there are NO checks, no matter how small, visible, then paint it with several coats of a green wood sealer (NOT latex paint!)
If you'll wait any time at all to get the logs sliced, you'd be well advised to cut and split each log in half the long way. Use wedges to help split. The halves will shrink to big pie slices with time, but they won't crack as much as a full round piece.
Hi Mike,
I was curious what your justification was for stating not to use latex paint. As far as I am aware, the goal of any sealant is to prevent uneven evaporation of moisture from the ends. In your opinion, will paint not reduce this evaporation?Z"100 Years" -- scribbled on the wall by a woodworker to remind him to do his best and as a warranty on his work -- "If anything I make fails in the first hundred years, bring it back, and I'll take care of it. After that, there will be a small charge. (Original purchaser only)"
The best bet for sealing the ends is a mineral spirit wax blend, next would be a thick coat of oil based paint. You want to avoid latex paint as it only penetrates into a dry surface and even then it doesnt soak in much. As fresh cut logs have a really high moisture content the latex would simply peel off after a few days. As far as the danger of imbedded metal there are a few precautions you can try. First look at the bottom most section of the trunk, black blotches may indicate the presence metal. Another test would be to have someone scan it with a metal detector. As they scan the log have it rolled once or twice to get it from various viewpoints, the sawyers I have gone to locally seem to swear by this.
Sorry to be so late replying. I'm here only sporadically.I've found that latex eventually cracks without fail on end grain and then the end grain checks where the crack was. I previously used latex and had lots of problems with checks, even when I put on lots of coats. I switched to a greenwood sealer that Woodcraft sells and have much better luck with drying wood. Not perfect, but that variability is what makes wood special and plastic ordinary.
Hi,
I had a 60 year oak tree cut up this spring. I wouldn't worry too much about large oak logs splitting. Mine sat for 6 weeks, ends uncoated, before I had them sawn, and there were no end splits or cracking.
It was a lot of work. I hired somebody with a band mill, and I off-loaded the boards as he cut. Still took longer than I thought (I was paying him by the hour). The sawyer had to split the logs before sawing because they were too big for the mill. Most portable mills won't saw logs bigger than 24 inches or so.
I had about half the wood quarter sawn, the other half flat sawn with natural edges left on (I like to make tables with natural edges). So far, the drying is going okay with minimal checking on the quarter sawn pieces but the flat sawn pieces are showing some splitting (I did paint the ends after the logs were sawn) but I've heard pin oak is hard to dry without some splitting/checking.
Dave,
Thanks for your advice. I have hired a local sawmill person to do the job on site, who is charging $60/hr.
Most of the wood will be quartersawn as I really enjoy working in the Craftsman style.
I look forward to building all of the furniture for the cabin from a tree on the lot.
Regards,
WCF
60 year oak tree Dang just a Baby!
Yeah it had been dying a slow death for the path 3 years. I finally put it out of it's misery 8^)It may of been a baby, but the base trunk was over 4 feet across. Most of the oak trees in our subdivision were planted between 50 and 60 years ago and a drought 5 years ago finished a lot of them off. It's a love/hate thing when it comes time to clean the leaves up. They start coming down in September and finish in January.
It's a love/hate thing when it comes time to clean the leaves up. I HEAR you.. My brother had about 20 PIN Oaks on his property..
He cleaned up leaves ya would not believe! He has four sons to help and it took a month!
Latex paint is not a vapor barrier, that is it's shortcoming. Moisture leaves end grain up to 15 times faster than long grain and nearly all of that as vapor.Old PVA glue is effective, roofing cement, oil based paint applied thickly and wax are good ones. Paraffin can be bought in the canning section at nearly any grocery store, melt it in a double boiler and apply it with a cheap brush, this is probably the best option assuming you have nothing on hand.I wrote an article a few years back on this and how to air dry lumber, go to the archives through the "Woodworking" link at the top of this page and you can buy it individually for just a few bucks. Enter "Air drying Lumber" I don't get royalties, I decided to commit them to keeping Taunton Lear well serviced so when my weekend comes it's ready to go.Lee
I would find out what kind of oak it is first; some like whiteoak are outstanding while others like Pin Oak are not as valuable for their lumber.
There are bunches of books on the subject but there are lumber companies that are set up to cut and mill urban lumber. YOur state County Extension agent would be a good source.
Good luck
Pretty sure it's red
If the leaves were pointed at the tips of the lobes they are part of the red oak group. The species Red oak is good lumber but can be subject to splinter a little. White oak group have rounded lobes on the leaves.I dont mean to sound technical but it does make a difference. I saw a book at a woodworking bookstore about Urban forestry but I cant remember the title. I would definately make sure you dry it properly or else it can be a mess. Your efforts are commendable. It's a a great lesson and something we should all try for conservation purposes. Urban lumber is a great resource that too often goes up in smoke.
Thank you for your advice.
WCF
if you go to Google.com/images and type in red oak leaves or white oak leaves, examples pop right up. Thanks again
Check out the forestry forum. There's a wealth of information on there about cutting, drying your own wood. forestryforum.com
Hello
your oak should yield a lot of good wood.
I agree, Seal the endgrain with wax.
Now to offer something new.
There are lots of sawers out there, bandsaw mills is nice but do as I did,Check out http://www.baileys-online.com/Mill.htm or Lucas Mill International web site this mill is amazing! I called the site, and asked for info on a owner in my area, Then I called around.found one a hour away.
The ability to quarter saw lumber with out moving the wood, offers a huge advantage,with less wast.and the saw cuts are very clean (compared to a bandsaw mill) .
I cant say enough good things to say about this mill.
C.A.G.
Edited 10/9/2005 10:16 am ET by Curtis
hmmmm, Oak you say?
Saw it into 12 to 18 inch lengths, split it up, burn it. Then while the shop is warm from the fire, build that furniture you wanted from something else.
Sorry, couldn't resist it.
You know, when it's -20 F below in Northern MN during January, and that's pre wind chill, having a bit of oak for the stove makes a lot of sense - and that's what I'll use the higher, smaller branches for.
Last time I checked the price on 1/4 sawn oak, it was around $7.25/bf. I am expecting at least one unit from this tree if not more, so I think I'll be in it for about $.50/bf or less, with a nice selection of 3, 5, 7 and 11 quarter planks.
I may even sell some to pay for the sawmill work!
Have a nice day.
Dave,
Unlike most woodworkers, you will be able to say you truly started with the tree. Most people couldn't even ID the kind of tree their wood came from. I make gunstocks and while I have never cut my own wood, I have helped others do so and it is very rewarding on several levels.
When I get my new bandsaw (14" Powermatic with a riser) I am going to start cutting urban wood and use it for boxes and trinkets.
OK fellow woodworkers - the tree has been milled; here's the lowdown:
Had the tree milled over the weekend; took about 3 hours of machine time at $60/hr, board range from 5' to 9' in length and 4" to 11" in width. Several thicknesses including 3/4, 4/4, 6/4 8/4 and 12/4. Estimate close to a unit overall between red oak and basswood.
Woodman used a Wood Mizer Model 40 HD. Ran through 2 blades, no incidents to speak of (nails, bullets, etc). Quite the machine, made quick work of the job; has been in the trade 20 years. One of the coolest components was a leading scoring blade in front of the bandsaw teeth that cleared out a clean point of entry for the bandsaw in the outer layers of the bark, including dirt, rocks, sand, etc. The effect is to greatly increase the life of the bandsaw blade. Very ingenious.
Learned quite a bit about the entire process. Pretty much convinced that the end sealing of the stock to prevent checking and splitting is for the most part, bunk. Wax, laquer, beeswax. What a joke. basically comes down to proper layup of the boards in the drying rack and the condtion of the logs at the point of milling.
Quite a bit of scrap, will use for firewood to get best use. For non-view components, drawer sides, etc, will use Basswood - have more than I'll ever need of it.
Lot of work stacking the wood for drying, 12/4 wet oak stock is heavy, but have already pegged some of those boards for a 10' trestle table in the Craftsman style. Several wall clocks are in order also.
This adds another whole dimension to woodworking enjoyment and I highly recommend it to those that have this option. Think twice about that arborist as he/she is hauling away that big oak in your neighborhood.
Cheers!
Now that you're done what's the final tally? You started with how many feet of what diameter tree? What yield did you get for the quarter sawn wood. What was your yield over all. And your cost per board foot was how much.... if you don't mind sharing that info.
John,
I'd say cost per board foot is about 35 cents. went flatsawn on much of the wood to yield larger planks.
Two trees were felled, one oak and one basswood.
guessing about a unit, maybe a bit less.
WCF
Why are you convinced that sealing the end grain is bunk? It is pretty easy to see how well it works. Cut a 12" long piece off and seal one end and not the other. Depending on your climate, one end will start checking almost immediately. Here in Montana, at the timberframe shop I work at, it takes about 30 minutes for the checking to start in unsealed end grain. That is in fir, even kiln-dried.Green oak is worse, as the checks are actually larger.
Jesse,
I am going to try the experiment you suggest. Sounds like good old common sense, which works for me. Might even be de-bunked!
WCF
wcf, i had 3 red oaks dropped in my yard, about 18-24 inch diameter. paid a local bandsaw mill to saw them. he sawed it into 4/4, at my request and a couple of 12/4. charged me .25 cents a board foot. my bill was about 400. or so. he left all the scraps for me and did no clean up. i did all the clean up, but did not touch a board when sawing. i left the logs in 8 ft lengths stacked in a pyramid for about a year through the new england winter uncovered too.
after, they were sawed, i loaded them up and brought them to a local kiln. it was a pressure kiln, not solar. i paid him about $500.00 dollars to bring them to furniture grade moisture. when i picked them back up, i tested them to be between 10-12 moisture. i was not using for a while and thought it to be a pretty good job at a good price, so that was that.
now three years later, i am installing hardwood floors upstairs and have absolutlly no problems with the wood. i am going to build a new workbench with the rest.
the wood was sawn flat , and quarter, and rift. so i selected my pieces accordingly. there was small amounts of checking and end split but i just cut off and burnt the poor stuff. where else could i buy red oak for under .60 cents a linear foot and boast i'm walking on my own floors from my property.
ps. stored all the lumber in my basement shop till i used it. shop is quite dry and stable temp.
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