Replies

1. 
   MarkRoderick | Nov 25, 2003 04:14pm | #1

   I can only speak for myself, but I had exactly the same experience. Night and day. My advice to beginners is to buy one Lie-Nielsen tool so you can see what the experience is supposed to be like. Then you can buy a hundred old Stanleys and flatten the soles and buy replacement blades and so forth, and you'll know what you're trying to achieve.

   I had the same experience with the L-N dovetail saw, which is currently the subject of another thread here. I used several others for years, then within five minutes after taking the L-N out of the box I discovered what a dovetail saw is supposed to do.

   Although the Veritas line of planes gets good reviews here, I tried their low-angle block plane at a show and found it was nothing like the L-N. Good, and real good for the money, but not at the L-N level. So even though I am going to buy some Veritas planes, I still would recommend buying one L-N for the benefit of the comparison. . . .and, to be perfectly honest, for the sheer joy of using such an exquisite tool.

   I own three:  the low angle block plane, the #4 smoother, and the low-angle jack (sarge, eat your heart out).

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 25, 2003 06:59pm | #2

   Mark

     (Sarge, eat your heart out!!)

    Better keep the "ole shop" locked as I'm on the prowl. Three LN's and a dove-tail saw. Quite a days work.  ha..ha..

   Have a good day Mark...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Alan | Nov 26, 2003 02:35am | #3

   JPAR12,

   I own one Lie-Nielsen bench plane, a #4, and it is indeed a great plane.  It works wonderfully well.  It required an absolute minimum amount of tuning to get it effortlessly gliding through wood.  It is a real joy to use.  The quality of fit and finish, and the materials used are top-drawer.  I got it as a gift; and I love it deeply.

   That said...I don't anticipate that I'll buy myself another.  It is a great plane, but it's not so much greater as to justify paying double, or triple--or even fourple--for another that can be made to work about as well.

   For example:  I have a plain-wrap Record #7 jointer (that I got at a widow's sale, brand new, still in the box, wrapped in plastic and slathered in its shipping/storage grease) which is not a great plane.  A brand new Record jointer costs around one-fourth the price of the Lie-Nielsen jointer.  The LN is a much better plane; but it's not that much greater.

   I put a Clifton iron and cap-iron into the Record; and I spent a few hours fettling, sharpening, tuning and puttering.  Now it's a perfectly fine plane; it does all I want it to do--and even with the addition of the Clifton parts it's still so much cheaper than the LN that I cannot talk myself into spending that much more money for the Lie-Nielsen.

   Alan

1. 
   BG | Nov 26, 2003 03:15am | #4

   Alan,

   Sure the #7 is good enough.....you got that LN #4 to back you up and put a nice finish on anything....lol

   I have a question that has been driving me crazy...and it happened again tonight.  I planed a nice piece of cherry from rough to glassy smooth with the #4 Stanley.  The surface was hard and shiny.  I took a piece of 320 grit and rubbed a bit...several little holes in the wood appeared (ie, the dust made their appearance visible).  I have gotten this on every type of wood I use.  I tried to scrape them away...but only new ones appeared....I then had to sand the holes away.  Do you know if I'm doing anything wrong?..I'm trying to avoid sanding..but it doesn't appear possible...   

3. 
   Elcoholic | Nov 27, 2003 01:04am | #5

   I started w/ a LN chisel plane (gift).  Followed with a L/A adj. block, small shoulder and #4.  Usage from most to least goes - L/A block, #4, shoulder and chisel.  I'd re-think the chisel plane as the next LN unless you have a lot of inside rabbet corners to clean up.  It also does a nice job of flushing off plugs and pins too.  I still get a lot of use out of my #5 and 7 Bailey's too.  The #4 Record makes a nice door stop.  I'll probably get the LN scraper next.

   John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

4. 
   billballeza | Nov 27, 2003 01:34am | #6

   I bought a LN #5 jackplane about a year ago.

   It was my first plane and Sgian Dubh, Richard Jones, taught me how to use it.

   I've also acquired a LN dovetail saw..but, alas, Richard (the king of dovetailing) has returned to his beloved homeland, and I've yet to make a single dovetail.

5. 
   Midnight | Nov 27, 2003 05:35am | #7

   Why do I buy L-N's...?? dead simple. The first 2 planes I bought were block planes. A Record (no number on the casting) and a Stanley. By the time I'd figured how to use the record. the blade adjustment wheel was falling off the shaft on a regular basis. The Stanley didn't fare much better; I tend to loose confidence in something that shakes itself appart within a couple of strokes. I'll add that there was a year between buying the two... in the meantime I'd learned how to sharpen properly and tune out the manufacturing defects.

   Next attempt at it was a Stanley #5. I'll be honest; properly tuned and sharpened on an 8000 grit stone, this puppy handles itself pretty well on long straigh grained stock. Makes short work of cross grain work too on similar stock. It doesn't like wild grain though; bounces and chatters whenever the grain flips or sworls.

   That brought about my first L-N purchace, the 62... AWSOME tool. And it doesn't so much as blink at the wild grain. Sarge... you're gonna love it I promise you....

   The 62 was bought at the same time as a Stanley #7. Talk about chalk and cheese. It's crude but effective, but like the #5, it prefers not to work the wild grain.

   The next 2 L-N's were bought by accident. I'd ordered the 212; the supplier shipped the #9 and after spending the previous fortnight tearin my knuckles to shreads on shooting boards I didn't have the heart to send it back. Called the supplier, got the shipping mistake sorted out and had them bill me for the #9. Cost me a month in the dog house, but other than that... I got no regrets.

   The only one I haven't tried... yet... is the 4 1/2, though I aim to remedy that later this week. Last one on the list is the floozy... nickerless #140. Now THAT'S how a block plane SHOULD be.

   Why did I buy them..?? Simple answer is because nobody else is making planes to these pattern. OK granted L-V make a low angle jack but near as I can tell, they're not commercially available this side of the pond. None of my local hardware stores stock anything remotely like them, and a 1200 mile round trip to a trade show is a little beyond my means just for a looksee. I've learned mostly from the guys here that when it comes to reputation, L-N sets the benchmark that all others should aim for. By rights I shouldn't have bought any, this is a hobby for me and I don't make the kinda money that justifies buying tools like this. All the more reason to get the purchace right first time, every time. 30 seconds on a honing stone and the tool's ready to rock, straight outa the box. If only everything in life was as reliable.

   Will I buy more...??

   Right now there's a 7 1/2 with my name on it, it just don't know it yet.....

   Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 27, 2003 07:52am | #8

   Mike

      Just posted to you in another thread on the #4 1/2. When you get the #7 1/2 low-angle, give me your take. Interesting concept on going low-angle with that one. But with the success of the #62 low-angle 5 jack I think it's a smart move. I don't think they put an adjustable mouth on it, but I am curious to see how well it works.

   Have a good night, Mike...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Midnight | Nov 27, 2003 11:56pm | #9

   It'd be my pleasure Sarge... but it might take me a while... I got the feelin that if I spend much more on tools this year, I'll be spending winter in the dog house....

   y'all know what I'm sayin...??

   ;)

   Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 28, 2003 12:05am | #10

   Mike

      Yeah, I do. Next year when she visits mom. And don't forget to get rid of the boxes. That's a dead (and I mean dead) give-a-way. And build her (and I mean "her") something in the meantime. ha..ha..

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Midnight | Nov 28, 2003 12:26am | #11

   Ummm Sarge...

   just one prob....

   "She" has to sign for them when they arrive.. I'm usually at work.. but I hear ya... Think a matched pair of Mission side tables would swing it..?? As yet she donno that i was going to build them anyway... practice pieces for something bigger...Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 28, 2003 01:33am | #12

   Mike

      It would be a good start. You can kind of test the water with them. May have to go larger like a new custom heart shaped bed and matching chest. We are talking new planes at stake here. ha..ha..

   sarge.jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 11/27/2003 5:34:00 PM ET by SARGE

3. 
   Midnight | Nov 28, 2003 04:20am | #14

   Oi Vey......

   ummmmm...... ok.... tables I can do....

   I dread to think what the "cost" to replace the #7's gonna be....Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

6. 
   toolpoor | Nov 28, 2003 01:52am | #13

   Yup, know how you feel. I attended a class at the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship in Rockport (ME) 3 years ago. A low angle block plane was on the required list, so I took my old Stanley. I looked around on day 1 and saw most everyone had a LN. Day 2 I tried the old Stanley on some Ebony, not good. Day 3 I used one of the school's LN block planes. The difference was simple, went from "can't" to "can." Day 4 went to LN at lunch, it's 15 minutes away, and ordered a low angle block plane. At some point in every project, it gets used now. A friend of mine and went back to LN for a seminar in October this year, we took a curly mahogany board with us that had some wicked gnarley grain. At LN, we put it up on one of the benches and tried 4's with both standard and York pitch, and 4 1/2's with both the standard and York pitch. Both are nice planes. I ordered a No. 4 with the York pitch and the new chipbreaker and picked it up at the next seminar. Put Rosewood handles on it, too. The plane is a cross between a working tool and a work of art. Haven't used it yet but just found a source for some of the nicest curly and birds-eye maple I've ever seen. So, the new plane will have workout as soon as I finish the antique bed project for my daughter. Don't let anyone tell you that "anyone can make up a set of rails, nothing to em" if they are missing. Enjoy the new plane. And, if you're fortunate to have a son and grandson that likes woodworking, they will enjoy it too.