Has anyone tried the new Festool KAPEX sliding compound miter saw yet?
Keith
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Replies
Keith,
There was some discussion on this recently. None too good.
See this thread (but there is more out there): 42572.1
Bill-
I wish they would change the name of the company to Festoon.
See post 42421.8
Some things never change.
Cheers,
Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
I love the Kapex! But not because I own one, or even have tried one out. Only because, as a result of the Kapex coming on the market, there are good sliding CMSs for sale at very good prices!
I bought my Makita SCMS from a woman here on the island who treated herself to a Kapex. She loves it, and she's no powderpuff woodworker. She and her partner built their house, did all the trim, cabinets. If she has the money to spend, who's to fault her? If she prefers clean air to breathe, and less noise, who's to fault her?
Well you always seem to find the value in a tool!
I have had the chance to use one at a Rockler store, I too will keep my $ and my Makita LS1214 just like Woodman. The differnece between 88% clean and 92.0005% (whatever) clean is still sawdust to cleanup and air to breath. Personally I hated the Kapex handle and all the buttons to push to release it. The handle is slippery, the buttons at odd angles to my hands, and I can't lower the blade without it being on!!!! For a company that made the truly revolutionary plunge saw, this is a nightmare, in my not so humble opinion. Sorry but this an example of Beta dumping without real world testing.
AZMO
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I too have a problem with the vertical handle! Being 5'4" and reaching for the handle puts my shoulder and wrist very uncomfortable angles, actually some what painfull. The DeWalt which has the horizontal system and a few inches higher is comfortable. I love the other features but their engineers/designers IMHO goofed on the handle.
OK, I know lower the saw! But the table designed for the saw is already lowered so that the regular Festool table is nearly flush with the saws bed.
Lowering the saw would also require working in a bent over position, not good with herniated discs.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
regarding that handle and switches... try them left handed. If I had one suggestion for tool designers it would be to design expensive tools like this to be either handed, whether through the design or enabling reconfiguration.
Good idea. A sort of pivot arrangement so the handle/trigger could be biased for righties or lefties. If I were you I would send that suggestion in to Festool. Who knows, they may like your idea.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
I think you will find that repositionable handle on the Bosch 12" CSM.
Bruce I am 6'2" and it just doesn't cut it for me either. Maybe we both like the Makita feel and the Kapex is to just wrong to us? <!----><!----><!---->
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I've only touched one at the local woodcraft (who btw presold 16 of them before they even went on sale). It's a nice saw, no question about it but it's not 2x better than a Makita LS1214, which for a little more than half of the price of the Kapex is what I would buy again.
Like I said, I haven't used one so take my comments with that caveat.
The advantages are it is light weight (magnesium) and it collects dust. If you are a professional and you do on sight work in an environment that doesn't allow dust spewing from your saw this works for me. Many times I had to go outside or in the garage to do finish work because of the dust problem and that takes time and time is money. The light weight saves my back. The obvious Festool quality is of course through out the saw.
Interesting, do you own one and use it often. My short (very) short use in Rockler attached to Festool vacumn system showed it was far from dust free. Nothing I would use in my living room, (my wife may leave me if the shop expands that far....) My Makita also has a hose connection and still leaves dust. In the shop with a DC under it is acceptable, but in someones house on the carpet? Not sure any of these are good enough for that. <!----><!----><!---->
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
I take the usual precautions to protect the customers home as well as my health. I have 3 other power miter box saws and the festool is far better in dust collection. There is a dust shield on the Festool that can be removed and it blows a little more dust, if removed, for specific cuts. I have a Rockler near me and they push Chinese products because most of their customers want inexpensive tools. I have also watched them demo tools with poor results because most Rockler employees aren't professional woodworkers, if woodwoodworkers at all, (in the one near me). Despite Festool sending an employee to learn the tools they manufacture, his demonstrations were poor because he didn't actually spend any time using them in real life. If you make a living with your tools you take every advantage you can to keep your health and cut down on time and produce professional work, and Festool is making my life easier.
I had wondered about that issue with my demo also. My store has 3 craftsman, for some reason we have a transplant from Maine who is a wood boat builder. Not sure how he got off the wrong bus in Phoenix, but he knows his way around a tool or two.
So do you really set the Kapex up inside a house with occupants? The guys I work around all set up shop outside and do the hike thinkg.
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"The obvious Festool quality is of course through out the saw."The above quote from a previous poster should have read, "The obvious lack of Festool quality is of course through out the saw."The Kapex is quite possibly the biggest flop ever for Festool. The unit is riddled with issues that even Festool has no fix or answer for. There are people all over the country on their 4th and 5th Kapex and poor sales have killed Festool projections.To make matters worse, Festool is claiming it is isolated and has ignored statements until just recently and the statement was extremely vague.Festool fans...don't bash me, I'm one too. But Festool can keep the Kapex, they rushed it to market but being a German company they will never admit it.
Care to share your data sources?
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
"Care to share your data sources?" Yeah, that very question crossed my mind immediately. Not that I don't believe him, but the tone makes one want citations.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Reading on a few posts, I think we are feeding a troll. Love that ignore button :-)
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
"Love that ignore button :-)" Amen!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Peter,
Depending on which data sources you would like to learn more about, possibly I can share them. Elaborate please and I might be able to help.I think I'm understanding from you and Forrest Girl that you don't believe the Kapex has issues...was rushed to market...is not selling well...is lacking better design features...?
Seems pretty simple, provide some documentation for your assertations....
Bad mouthing without documentation is not worth spit.
You mentioned specific problems with this tool, you could start with some sources that deal with the problems you brought up.
I think your understanding is flawed, we are asking for evidence to back up your assertions.
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You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. Jack London
You know what my friend, you have just pissed me off to no end. Open your damn eyes and start reading.
http://www.festoolownersgroup.comPeople like you are exactly why I rarely post on forums anymore.I own more Festool than you could dream of owning and I love every bit of it, I have consumed much of the green Kool Aid, but the Kapex was a disaster.I'm out.
The text of your post is exactly why your opinion is worthless.
How do you know how much festool I own?
Which FOG thread would you have us read? The one with three posts with no specifics?
You either can't or are unwilling to back up your statements whether they are true or not. This makes your opinion worthless and if my questions keep you from posting then the loss will not be noticed.
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You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. Jack London
Went by the TDI booth about 50 times a day as they were 30' behind our booth and the bathroom. :>) All the screw gun demo's looked good as they did them for me before the Show opened one morining. The guys said to call them to discuss your individual needs as they can set up the machine to do about anything you want it to do with screws.
Regards...
Sarge..
Many thanks Sarge.
That hopper fed gun they have could save me a bunch of time.
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You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. Jack London
Interesting enough, I didn't ask the price. But I went over several times as only a few feet away to watch them demo. I saw quite a few ways to use them and they did tell me they could set it up to do quite a number of things depending on your needs.
I have no use myself but it was very educational as many other things you can see at a Show that size with Vendors from around the world.
Regards...
Sarge..
It seems like a neat toy, but finish carpenters have been getting along without it for a long time now. If the cost came in line with other quality saws, maybe I'd get it, but if I were doing this stuff for a living it would be all about cost benefit analysis. Getting the most expensive does not always equate to what is neccessary for the job.
Besides,
It doesn't even come in a Systainer!
I seem to remember typing "Not that i don't believe him." I have no problem believing there was a rush to production without complete thought. It just seemed that as vehement as you were about the problem(s), some references to where this info came from would have been helpful.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Syma-In one of your responses, you said: "Depending on which data sources you would like to learn more about, possibly I can share them."I'd be interested in knowing the bases for your evaluation of the Kapek, so let me go item by item from your original post."The Kapex is quite possibly the biggest flop ever for Festool." Have there been previous Festool flops? Please identify them."The unit is riddled with issues that even Festool has no fix or answer for." What are the issues? Design issues? Manufacturing issues? Delivery issues? How do we know that the manufacturer has no fix or answer for the identified issues?"There are people all over the country on their 4th and 5th Kapex and poor sales have killed Festool projections." Approximately how many people are on their 4th or 5th Kapek? If they are all over the country, there must be many. What were the Festool sales projections for the Kapek? What have been actual sales, and how far short of projections have they been?"To make matters worse, Festool is claiming it is isolated and has ignored statements until just recently and the statement was extremely vague." Please steer us to a statement by Festool that claims isolated problems. Also, please cite statements that you regard as vague so that we may judge for ourselves whether they are responsive to customer complaints.I trust that providing answers to these questions will impose little burden on you, as you must have the information at hand to have formed your evaluation.Thank you,Don Brown
<<So do you really set the Kapex up inside a house with occupants?>>I do not earn a living with wood, however I am very concerned of the damage that wood dust (along with the various glue dusts in ply) will do to lungs. So to cut to the chase, here are some pictures. The first is a work in progress. It is a computer desk for my wife. If you look closely at the far wall you will see that it is from a plan in FWW. I stacked all the drawers for a purpose. They are all the ends that I used the Kapex to cut to length. In addition to the final drawers there is one test drawer plus the equivalent of two screw ups. Hey, I am an amateur.The other two photos show the TOTAL amount of non collected crap at the back of the saw. Left and right side shots.The hose is connected to a Festool vac.The timing was fortunate. I wanted something that would reduce the exposure to dust and it arrived when I was about to start on the drawers. The wood is Latvian Baltic birch.Hope this helps those folks wondering about the Kapex.Cheers,Peter(gearing up for the abuse)
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
"Gearing up for Abuse" Not from me you won't. In many ways the Kapex is a fine tool and in others it does not meet the high expectations we all had. Looking at the dust around the back of your saw it is less than my Makita. Neither is suited for interior use on a clients carpet, let alone my wifes....;>)
I have a different method for dust collection. I have been testing it with some variations and it seems to work significantly better. I have made a box in the back of my stand/cart for the saw. At the bottom of the box, or directly behind the saw is a standard plastic intake shroud that connects to a 4" flex line. IN your pictures you have what looks like a 2" wide strip that can be lifted up in the same place as my shroud. I cut off an old piece of shop vac hose and attached it to the dust port of the saw, and dropped the open end into the plastic intake. That way I get suction from the dust port and from the vac hose! Venturi action, similar to great invention of the all new Delta saw... geese and I don't even get credit.
To be fair, my box is not perfect either.... there is a lot of flying particles and airflow around a blade and stuff settles out in other places. <!----><!----><!---->
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
FWIW, bones nailed it. It was a tolerance issue with the clamping plate. And the fix is pretty easy. Two screws, replace plate, done.
Which is not to say that nobody has any other issues, but aside from typical things you'd find in any wide ranging sample, the plate was the big deal. Festool says it affected not more than 4% of the saws, and my experience jives with that.
It does remind me a lot of Fords release in 2003 of the 6.0 diesel. Many were fine. If you were one of the unfortunate ones with issues, chances are, you had a lot of issues. And the forums at the time were, still are sometimes, broiling over whether its the best engine ever or the worst.
Festool made an official statement about it. You can probably find it on any dealers' website.
There's been a lot of heated back and forth on forums, like one would expect. Lovers and haters and middle men. If you want to read all of it, you can go to the FOG or talkfestool. I know both have lengthy discussions about it.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
Edited 8/24/2008 9:23 pm by RW
I got to use one early Saturday at IWF. It is a nice saw but I see only one real advantage over my 12" Hitachi which gets just as good of cuts IMO. And one minor advantage. Now... I don't work inside someone's home (dust) and have my saw set up so it doesn't spread much more dust than the FT.
Nor do I take mine to a job site. I paid around $465 for the Hitachi using some discounts. So... I definitely cannot see an extra $1000 but if I were a trim man or contractor working on-sight daily I would consider one for both dust and more-so.... the lighter weight having to move it around all day long.
BTW... my Hitachi is green also... but darker green so guess who got more pigment in their paint job. My saw has more pigment than your saw. naa.. naa... ahh.. naa.. naa. :>)
Kidding aside... nice saw but not worth $1000 extra "for me" under the conditions I use my saw.
Sarge..
Compared to the previous saw (Hitachi 12"), it it a wonder. With no additional need for a built in enclosure to end up with that small amount of residuals.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Edited 8/25/2008 12:34 am by PeterDurand
Hey, keith this is Keith. I've been in the process of moving from STL to PA and have been off line all week. I have the Kapex and if you have any special questions just ask and I'll answer as best I can. They has been a lot of talk of issues, but the issue was a plate that they changed at the last moment on some units and with the very tight tolerances (.22mm) and the plate was bent. If you want the true scoop come over to the festool owners group site and talk to the users. When it was released on 7/1 I was ready to jump but the problem surfaced and I waited. They have corrected the issue and when I got mine a few weeks back the dealer took it out double checked it and it's been fine. I love it. it cuts smooth and the bevel mechanism with a .5 degree scale is great. I have not had a ton of use because I just got it and i've been moving. Once I get the shop back in order I plan on putting it to more good use. Like I said go over to the FOG or talkfestool.com to discuss it. I have to say that of the festool stuff I have I like it. I have the domino & ct33e dust extractor. My next purchase is one of their sanders.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
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