Greetings –
I’m getting really frustrated trying to keep both my bandsaw blades and the tires on the saw clean. Understand that I’m working with really, really green wood, like it was a living tree a few hours ago! (well, almost). I can see where brushes would help (no I don’t have any…yet) when cutting cured, ‘dry’ wood, but some of this stuff really gums up the blades like crazy. I cut out three bowl blanks this evening not even 10″ across and spent well over an hour cleaning the gunk off the blade. The worst part is with the build up occuring mostly on the inside of the blade (the side that runs on the tires) the tires get gummed up and the whole thing feed on itself to the point that the blade starts to drift horribly.
Jeff – I know you do some turning based on some of the replies you’ve posted, do you work green wood as well? If so, is the price one pays having the saw get such a mess?
I’m also wondering if it wouldn’t be better to go to something like coolblock guides rather than these Carter bearings. At least there might be something to scrape off crap off the blade! (grin)
[email protected]
Replies
Hi Dennis:
First, how did you get such a low number? When I signed up, the only choice I was given was 364 and the loss of a "n". Must be politics!!!
While most of my bandsaw work is with dried lumber, I have also had trouble keeping the tires clean. I'll be interested to see what solutions have been thought up.
As for myself, I took a stiff toothbrush and bent the handle so it could be bolted to the saw and brush the tires. It really helped but isn't 100% effective.
As far as cleaning pitch and other gunk off the blade, I really like Simple Green because it's non-toxic. I have a plastic Tupperware platter which is about 2" deep. After finishing at night, I put the blade in and the next morning it just needs to be dried. You can wipe most of the gunk off after 5 minutes (if you need it right away).
Good Luck, and be safe,
Dennis
Non-stick cooking spray (PAM) sprayed on your blade will help. Got this tip from a pro, surprised the heck out of me.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I've read about the Pam, Jamie, and would be using it for seasoned wood. My problem lies in the fact that I'm working with really, really green stuff. Not sure what species of tree this is - it was a street tree in downtown Bellevue that was being taken down. In my passion to see the dying thing put to some use other than smoke up someone's chimeny, I scarfed up some nice pieces. A couple good sized crotch pieces that may turn into some fairly good looking trays eventually.
The problem I'm facing is I have to use a fairly narrow blade (3/8", 1/2" in some cases will work) to cut bowl blanks reasonable round. Used to be quite a charge to take 12 x 12 square pieces and rough them down round but that thrill has gone - more interested in actually making something these days (hehehe). These blades are 4TPI - fairly aggressive I guess although I'm just learning about blade stuff. Not sure if the blade design has anything to do with how 'clean' one would stay given the type of material being cut.
The problem comes in due to the fact that the wet 'sawdust' is too heavy for the sawdust collection chute that came with the saw. Thus a large part of it falls down in the lower compartment and gets on the wheel and tire. The blade, of course, compresses it onto the tire even more and within two or three bowl blanks the inside surface of the blade has a tremendous buildup of .... stuff. It'd not hard to get off since it's pretty wet but what a pain.
Thought .... Would a brass brush ala bbq grille cleaning brushes be too aggressive for real time cleaning? The idea would be to mount same below the table and before the blade starts 'round the bottom wheel so's to clear off the gunk. As wet and sticky as this stuff is, not sure if a normal wheel brush would be very effective. Thinking here is to get a small, stiff nylon brush and mount top and bottom for my own wheel brush attack. Would brass brushes as above be too aggressive for the tires?
Secondary 'dust' pickup is probably in order along with a stronger vacuum system. Know of any good used wind tunnels on the surplus auction block?
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
I don't cut "green" wood on my bandsaw so I don't get too much sap buildup. I do keep a piece of candle at my bandsaw and lube my blade with it. A little wax gets on the tires but not enough to make the blade wander. I use it often like every three or four feet of sawing through wood (mostly pine) I cut a sliver of the candle off. It seems to keep the blade sharper longer and makes them last longer.
Works for me====
BT
Dennis -
I got a couple of those little brass brushes that sorta look like a tooth brush, but a little bigger. Has a wooden handle. I mounted those so that they would slightly rub the tires. That ended the problem for me.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
PlaneWood
Hey - thanks for the confirmation (see my reply to Jamie). Would it be inadvisable to rig up something to clean the blade as well? The saying goes, "if it sounds risky it probably is", none the less .... at the rate I'm going I have to change blades every three cuts. The stuff's not hard to get off but it sure affects blade tracking.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Cut out the pieces with a chain saw!
PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood
......
Cut out the pieces with a chain saw!
......
I did! But my chain saw tecnique is a lot worse than my band saw technique!! (grin)
I guess in the long run that's a good suggestion for material that's this wet.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis -
I mean just rough cut them out with a chain saw, then put them up to dry a little before using the band saw. I've tried to cut green fiberous wood on a BS and it is just not really feasible.
Unless, of course, you have a machine and blades built for doing that. I guess you could go buy a Wood Mizer BS!
PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood
Glad to hear I'm not the only one to have the problem.
I do rough the timber out to some degree with the chain saw. But trying to trim an 8" block round with a 30" chain saw is somewhat overkill (grin). It's not the really, *really* roughing out that's the problem.
Yeah, I realize I need to have more patience but it's so much easier working the wood (on the lathe) when it's that fresh. Cuts so much easier, tools keep their edge all evening ..... and I love the feel of cool wet shavings flying around my head and shoulders.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
No experience with wet wood whatsoever on a BS so I'm just thinking out loud. A 3 or 4 tooth per inch Stelite tipped blade would have a wider kerf than the blade and nice big gullets. A small compressed air jet on both sides of the blade above the lower bearings would blast the stuff away more efficiently than a DC hookup. Run the lower bearings tight - no clearance for the gunk to get through to the tires and the compressed air should help with cooling. Brushes on the blade & tires for sure. If you want to experiment with a set of tires try an exaggerated crown profile, maybe a flat-topped peak- the thought being that with a narrower contact area there'd be a higher pressure which may tend to push the remaining gunk to the outside.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
F.P.- tell me more about the pam thing, i just purchased an 18" bandsaw and tomorrow i'll be resaw 12/4 doug fir on it , the fir is reclaimed its about 125 years old and i'm using an 1 1/4 " blade like i said 12/4 x 8 i spent the better part of today cleaning the stock , do i spray once around in the beginning and while it's running to much i would venture would affect the tracking, slippage, and gum things up. kind of a basic duh question but i dont want to ruin the blade or at least right away. any pointers i'd appreciate..... cheers bear
Hi Bear, better hold on a minute. Turns out the PAM isn't for all blades! Here's some info from the Suffolk Machinery site (the link is at the end of the quotes):
"'Pam'" spray-on vegetable shortening is a great lubrication for 3/4" WIDTH AND UNDER band saw blades on vertical saws. (EXAMPLE: Delta, Grizzly, Jet, etc.) Unplug the machine. Spray Pam vegetable shortening on a rag and wipe on both sides of the blade while turning the upper wheel by hand. You will hear a 50% sound reduction when cutting.
"For proper lubrication mix HIGH ADHESION CHAIN SAW BAR OIL, with 50% kerosene or diesel fuel. Apply the solution with a spray bottle to BOTH sides of the band about once every four minutes, while the machine is running. When this lubrication is applied, the sound of cutting decreases over 50%. DO NOT APPLY AGAIN until the sound of cutting starts increasing. I guarantee you will be amazed! Longer life; No pitch buildup; No rusted or pitted bands! A great delivery system is the 12 volt windshield washer assembly out of an old car!"
The above is from this page on the Suffolk Machinery (Timbewolf blades) web site, about mid-way down the page "Six Rules for Sawing."forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
thanks for your response i've had a few other responses from you and there always quick and with real good info thanks again . cheers stay well bear
Jamie: Chain saw oil mixed with Kerosene or Diesel Fuel , HMM I would be leary of using that concocation for the simple reason its going to affect the rubber on the drive wheels.. could cause more problems than it would cure..
ToolDoc
Me, I dunno, but the folks at Suffolk live, eat and breath bandsaws. I doubt seriously that the head guru would put something on the web site that would damage a saw.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie: They Very may Live,Breath BandSaws,But Common Sense Dictates that Any type of Oils Will cause Problems with the Rubber on the drive wheels,and that my Dear you can take to the Bank..<G>....I have seen it,been there,Done that.. on equipment with drive belts that are subject to exsposure to oils, the oils do cause premature belt failure,wish I had a Dollar for every belt that I had to change cause it got exposed to oils and then busted or wore.. I would love to hear what the Bandsaw mfg cos have to say on this matter....
ToolDoc
Personally I'm leary of putting anything on the blade while the saw's running, liquid stuff that is. Reasoning: the blades running at a pretty good clip. The stuff will cling to the blade until it gets to the bottom wheel. Centrifugal force is gonna fling that 'stuff' all over the bottom compartment. Whatever's left will get flung off when the blade goes around the top wheel. Not long and you've got 'stuff' running on the floor I would think.
Not to mention what the inside of the bottom wheel would look like after a while - what comes to mind is when I take the cover off the drive sprocket on the chain saw.
blaghhhhh
(g)
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis: your right your going to have a heck of a mess not only on & in the saw but all over you & the shop, you might try using a graphite in stick form apply that to the blade it will lube and keep it clean..
ToolDoc
Take a look at the Suffolk site. The part about using bar-oil kerosene mix is for the bandsaw mills which are designed to cut green logs into lumber. Some of these band-mills run on rubber tires like a car tire and some run on steel wheels like a metal cutting bandsaw. Either way the mix won't hurt anything especially in the amount recommended. Mixing any kind of oil with sawdust when put under pressure (pinched between blade and wheel) will turn the sawdust into a mush that will squish out rather than build up. This is important on this type of mill so as to maintain proper tension and a clean blade.
I would think bandsaws designed for the woodshop have a different composition rubber for the tires that is designed to run dry. I would not run any liquid lube on them just to avoid the mess if nothing else. As mentioned before rig up some brass bristled brushes to clean the blade and tires. They won't hurt either one. Guide bearings will only make the problem worse cause you will get a buildup on them same as the tires. Cool blocks should work if kept tight against the blade, however, regardless what method is used something needs to be rigged to direct the sawdust away from the blade and tires after removal to keep it from reapplying itself. I see prevention of reapplication as a bigger hurdle than removal. A good strong shopvac might work as long as the wet chips don't clog the hose. I once put dust collection on a bandsaw by cutting a slot in the end of a shopvac extension tube and mounting it at a steep angle under the table so the blade ran through the slot and the lower guide was in the opening of the tube. If there is room enough under the table this works quite well on dry sawdust but I never tried it on wet stuff.
Good luck and let us know what finally solves the problem.
Rich
The Professional Termite
Edited 10/25/2002 8:38:57 AM ET by Trialnut
Dennis, take a look at my message #15, sp. the chain saw oil reference. It might help you out.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie ....
Lubrication is *not* the issue. Believe me ... there's plenty of lubrication associated with the wood itself.
Jeff had the right idea - whack the stuff close to some manageable shape, seal it up with end grain sealer and put it aside for a while. My problem is "a while" amounts to a few days I'm so eager to unrwap the pieces and see what's inside!!
First chance I get (read when the budget allows) I'm going for some "cool blocks" and set the bearing guides aside. I really think adjusting stationary guides really close, perhaps even rubbing the blade to serve to 'wipe off' the gunk I'm getting will work better. I don't seem to have had this much trouble keeping the tires and blade clean running just the stock Delta guides.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Hi Dennis,
You could make your own version of "Cool Blocks" out of hardwood. Set them right up against the blade and see if that solves the buildup problem. I have cut a bunch of bowl blanks within a couple days of the tree being cut down, and I have never had a problem with buildup on the blade. I was using a 14" clone with a riser block and wood guides. There shouldn't be a need to wait for the wood to season- as you already know the fresher the better. It's a blast turning really green wood- I have a bunch of t-shirst with a vertical "green wood turner's stripe".
Rick
> ....You could make your own version of "Cool Blocks" out of hardwood.
Absolutely cool (pun intended) idea!! And I've got some really dense chechen that would do the trick. I think you're right - let the things drag slightly on the blade and keep the stuff from getting transfered to the tires.
Sure won't hurt to try. And yes, the wetter the better with respect to turning. As long as it doesn't run out of the chuck! (grin)
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis: Glad to hear that your not going to try and lube your Delta bandsaw with any bandsaw Gurus Witches Brew,cause we both know its going to cause a problem down the road,not only that but when it causes God only knows what kind of a problem ,can you imanage the Laughs you would get from Delta when you tell em what you used..LOL..I know I wouldnt want to be the one calling them,Heck the Delta Gals would snicker at me and there would go my chance of getting one of there Delta Girl pin up posters,plus Rock2car & Delta OO7 would find out and they would bansh me from the Basement at Woodnet Forums,plus all the other members of the Delta Club would ignore me in all ww forums and I would then have to post in Looking for Romance at ICQ..LOL...Sooo us Delta Bandsaw guys have to stick together,of course Jamie wouldnt understand this cause shes a Gal and has a Jet anyways,plus shes plugged into that Guru stuff..must be left over from her Beach Bunny days..<G>.. Hope she doesnt get mad and send me any Nasty Grams or worist yet oh no a Bus load of Tourists and darn my trained attack Bears are getting ready for a Long winters sleep..
Take Care Buddy, ToolDoc
You could try wood guides for free to see if the scraper action does the trick. Something waxy like cocobolo or Lignum Vitae works great for me when in need to bury a small blade in the guides.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
What kind of wood is it? If it's really fresh off the stump and you're setting up to do 8" diameter bowls, I think an axe would quickly get it round enough to clear the bed and turn at low speed.
You mean use an axe instead of a goughing gouge? (hahaha)
The best suggestion so far was to get the stuff as round as possible with the chain saw, let it season for more than my usual three or four days then have a go of it.
Last night I turned some rough pieces ... man is that stuff full of water! This is the first time I found water sprayed on the bench behind the lathe. The whole front of my shirt was damp, too. Fortunately I had the lathe bed covered so didn't have too much work dressing down that nice shiny cast iron.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled