Hello, all. I’m in the process of building kitchen cabinets for a major remodel effort at my house. I’ve engaged a contractor to do everything but the cabinets, and we’re having problems, him and me.
My plan was to create a platform of 2 by 4s (milled to 3 inches high) as a base for the cabinets (and also to act as the toe space). Since it’s an old house, I thought it would be easier to level this platform before setting the cabinets on it. I had thought about adjustable legs for the cabinets but was concerned about weight: we’re using granite countertops.
This morning I asked the contractor if he would rather deal with one platform per run of cabinets or would rather have one per cabinet. The guy went nuts on me saying this was no way to build cabinets, which did not have a positive effect on me since I’ve been building pretty decent furniture for 25+ years. Maybe the fact that I’m paying hinm many thousands of dollars to do the renovation job had something to with my irritation at his response.
I don’t know about you guys but it seems a lot easier to shim and level a single platform rather than 15 individual cabinets. Kind of like starting with a level floor. I don’t recall where I saw this approach used (maybe I dreamed it) but would welcome your input/thoughts.
Thanks!
Replies
There were fewer cabinets involved, but I used that approach and it worked out great. Made sense to me. Good luck, Art
I have always built my cabinets the way you mentioned. I find it easier to keep things level if you use one base instead of several. I have built my bases out of plywood instead of 2x4's. I try to make sure that everything is good and solid before I start.
Scott C. Frankland
"This all could have been prevented if their parents had just used birth control"
Absolutely! I have built all my cabinets that way for the past 20 years. Not only is it easy to level the run but you save material.
You can cut six bulkheads from a sheet of plywood. The only ones you cut longer are for the end finish of a run.
Your contractor just needs to see the light and then he'll do hi own that way.
Here is an example.
Edited 8/4/2003 6:28:53 PM ET by Bob
Its just a new idea to him!! Works fine and its easier in most places. But I would not use 2x4s cause they move as they dry. Make a box from plywood (kind of like a ladder) and level that.
Here is the only pictures I could find of my bathroom remodel a few years ago it shows the base that I used with the partitions.
Scott C. Frankland
"This all could have been prevented if their parents had just used birth control"
Lofton:
I come at this a different way... My interpretation of the situation is that he is going berserk on you because he has a fundamental belief that you are green and don't know what you are doing. As such, since a concept is new to him, he assumes this is a ludicrous idea that you dreamed up.
Get a copy of Jim Tolpin's "Building Traditional Kitchen cabinets and show it to this guy. It illustrates both methods. The strategy here is to deflect the criticism. Now, you won't be recommending this wild idea, but an expert cabinet builder is doing this. Further, he can fancy himself as someone who will broad expertise at multiple methods of kitchen construction - feeding the "I've done it all" mentality.
Just my two cent psychology. It worked for me three years ago when in the middle of a rehab, I wanted my contractor to install Grace watershield around every new window in my house, before siding it. He thought I was nuts. I whipped out a copy of FHB and showed him why, what and how. He now uses it as a selling feature of his "quality approach" to building.
With respect to the construction, you may like the separate base idea for another reason... materials efficiency. By building on a deck, you can build your base cabinet carcases to 31" and get 6 base cabinet sides from a single sheet of plywood. Cutting the full 35 inches for full length cabinets reduces that to 4 cab sides plus waste for shelves, etc.
Bob
Thanks, Robbie. I agree with your assessment of the situation, and will show him Tolpin's book. The material savings kind of snuck up on me when I realized: "Hey, I can get six side panels out of one sheet of plywood!" OK, I'm slow!
Lofton
Thanks, everybody. I feel validated. I'll fire him in my dreams tonight.
Works for me. I use plywood though. It's more stable.
Norm Abrahm does it the way you are talking about. That should be good enough for your contractor.
Jeff
Here is a couple more pics of ladder kicks in use.
Lofton I'm a hobbyist woodworker but I have built a few cabinets for my personal use and also for some of my rent property. I found a good set of foolproof plans several years ago and would be willing to share them with you. If you are interested email an address I can fax them to you. I build a platform out of 2 X 4"s and plywood on top much like my understanding you are wanting to do.
Gods Peace
les
Just got through installing one 12' and one 10'run of base cabs on my uneven kitchen floor. Used 2X6's ripped down to 3-3/4" so I could skin the floor with 1/4" ply for new vinyl.
Good thing about using 2X bases, is that you can relieve the high spots, and shim the low spots instead of making everything as high as the highest spot in the floor. I attached the back of the bases to the studs, and drilled and counterbored for 3" screws on the front run.
This also saves you room in your cabs. You can build them with no bottom rail because they have the support of a common base. This will allow at least 2" more storage below drawer rails.
Just design your cabs as usual, but extend the bottom out to the thickness of the face frame. You'll have to band the face of the ply with matching wood (if not painted), which is no big deal. Doors shold be flush with the bottom of the cab. Stiles will run directly into the bottom of the cab and are screwed.
That's exactly how I'd do it. Fire up your computer and let the bozo read this thread. He's wrong. He needs to be big enough to admit it. I would never use those crappy little legs on a set of base cabs that were to receive granite tops.
Your two-by base is right on the money.
Hello, again,
Thaks to all of you for your suggestions. This is where I see real value in Knots! I'll post photos as the cabinets come together.
If you use ply and want 2x - Double it up.
Ply is less waste.
I think the point here is who is in charge. Someone has to be in charge, but how that person establishes that, is where problems arise. I work in the trades and a lot of the trade people want to be in charge of their work. I'm a carpenter that wants to work with someone or under someone. I can't work very well with someone who is grumpy. Why is this guy grumpy? Because he wants to get his way and is asserting himself by being grumpy. Almost all of the communication is non-verbal. When it is verbal it's usually too late, and too little. Clarification of what should happen in a given task is seen as a sign that you don't know what you are doing. Therefore if you ask you must not know what you are doing.
There are going to be problems! Good communication is learned just like good technique in woodworking. If some one throws a hissy fit in order to get their way This person is no different than a spoiled child throwing a temper tantrum. If I'm paying you to work for me and you do this too much I will get you out of my house. I have to put up with it sometimes, but in my house!
Thanks for letting me vent.
Lofton,
Perhaps its my experience, but I'm taking a different perspective on this issue. My question to you is why did you even bring the issue to him? If your responsible for building the cabinets...and making the customer happy (you), his attitude might be...your on your own fella...you ain't getting my knowledge for free.
The contractor that built my house was a very tough character on the trades. He never gave them the time to make a mistake...he would not call them again if the customer was not happy....and he never let them leave the job without a check in their hands. As the customer, I had only the best tradesman working on my house...on time..on budget...and all mistakes were corrected immediatly if not sooner.
Anyhow, I thinking this guy is sending you a message....you did not pay him...don't talk to him about the cabinets...
This is exactly my thoughts. While I'm glad to explain and enlighten my client or general contractor I don't explain or apologies.
It's my business how I do my business. They hired me out of knowledge of my work. There opportunity to micro manage me ends with the spec sheet. And then I have the option to not do the job if I feel their being unreasonable.
As for mistakes, "Show me a man who doesn't make mistakes and I'll show you someone who doesn't know anything".
If you ride people to close they'll stop thinking for themselves.
All projects have issues it's a good general that talks before the job starts about how to resolve those issues from homeowner to sub.
Ultimately the project will come out as good as the client had hoped, sometimes better.
Jere Cary agrees with you in his book, Building Your Own Kitchen Cabinets. I did it that way for a bathroom vanity on a very uneven, sloped basement floor. It worked like a charm whereas it would have been a nightmare to level the entire cabinet. How do you adjust your shims along the walls? With a separate base/toekick, it's open to work on.
You might have to concede your contractor doesn't know jack- i hope the rest of the project is going ok.
m
I'm curious what method did he plan on using?
Lofton -
I may have missed in your original question, but how did your builder/contractor suggest building the cabinets the "right" way (his way)? I agree with you, incidentally .... while I'm certainly not a cabinet maker by any stretch of the imagination, what little I've done in that regard I've done it the way you describe using single base leveled on which to place the cabinet boxes or the entire run of cabinets as the case may be.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
I'm another vote for the platform base method. After the first time I saw it, I never built a cabinet without a seperate base.
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