A few updates:
1. We’re changing the forum links to stop opening in new windows. This has been fixed on the list of links that runs down the left-hand side of the the Knots homepage.
2. We’ve added links to Breaktime and the other Taunton forums in the list mentioned above.
more to come…
Replies
We've added links to Breaktime and the other Taunton forums in the list mentioned above.
Yeah!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
"Does anyone plan to subscribe to this thing?"My answer is "No".In my area I must use a dial-up ISP. No way, will I ever be able to view the Videos which are, apparently, the principal new offerings.Jerry
I intend to try is for a month or two. Personally, I think Taunton should have provided all current Knots members a free month as an inducement to try the product.
Regarding the new format, well, like everything else, you need to try keep your product from getting stale. Perhaps the new layout and expanded folders will make easier to focus on your areas of interest rather than scrolling long lists of posts. Time will tell.
Frankly, I don't understand all the fuss about the members-only section. I'm not rich, but I don't think $5/month is an outrageous price to charge for access to hundreds of articles, videos, expert advice, and tool reviews. I mean, many people on here won't hesitate to plunk down several hundred dollars tools (I'm a plane junkie too). So, why all the outrage about a few extra dollars for access to information that will help you learn how to use those tools better? I agree that Taunton should offer subscribers at least one free month of membership (hint, hint) and charge members a monthly rate instead of a full year (hint, hint).
Besides, I hate when I finish the FWW magazine and have 6 weeks to wait until the next one comes. I was pleased when they created the online site, because now I have something to keep me occupied until the next issue arrives in the mail. Also, I think the online version is a better deal than having to pay a couple of hundred dollars for the CD collection of articles.
You've got more bugs than forum here. You sholud learn the old saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
This new Knots really sucks regarding usability, I will look in a few more times but if it stays this cumbersome to use I will no longer look at it.
Oh, and as to the pay area....fat chance. but I will keep getting the magazine, unless you start to pull this stuff off there too.
Philip
Is anyone out there actually planning on joining the pay site? It sounds interesting to me, but the price point is way off base. Did anyone at Taunton do some actual marketing to see if anyone would buy at this price? As it is, your magazine is overpriced, especially considering it only issues every other month.
I've read all Matt's responses on forum issues, but I haven't seen an expanation for this glut of folders. Do you have a response to this complaint? Why did you feel that many more folders were needed?
I'm still here and checking out the forum, but I can't say that this is an upgrade. In fact, I'm not even seeing any positive changes to offset negative changes.
Tim
Hey, lets face it, this is not for the forum members, it is for Taunton to sell a new product. Of course, nobody has a clue as to whether the new product is any good or worth the price unless as a minimum you plunck down $7.95 for a month trial. I am not sure this is resulting in Taunton being viewed as particularly kind to woodworkers but heck, it is their property and they can do what they want. Just seems to me they might sell their new thing without ticking everyone off. I bet there are still people who haven't gotten back to the forum and , unfortunately, may never be back.
As a relatively new reader and not a subscriber to the magazine I might subscribe to the website. If I do I will probably only do it for a month and do some intensive searching. I can't really think of paying for a year when I might not need to research for a whole year. Is there a better deal to entice me to subscribe to the website and magazine.
Yes, there is a deal for folks who subscribe to both website and magazine annually, check it out here: http://www.finewoodworkingnetwork.com.Stace Caseria
Copy Writer
Taunton Interactive
I'm sorry, but $60 is no deal....
$10.00 per month eh, less than what some people spend in a day for Lattes. Not many people like major changes in there daily habits let alone paying for it. As I see it we will still have the Knots fourm but in a different format that will take time to adjust to. I,m the Automotive field and we spend over 100 times per month on our basic information. Let,s give it some time and see how it goes. Great idea for a Christmas give though.
i have no intention of joining the pay site, but the layout of the new knots forum is WAY too convoluted. definitely not and user-friendly and simple/direct as the old version. there are too many "layers" of pages and sub-pages and sub-menus, etc. the old knots was just simple and effective before. not so simple and effective now. i don't mind about a little face lift of image upgrade, but the actual working of the forum has become too hard to navigate and remember which area and button and link et cetera to click on to find what you want. K.I.S.S.david
What - $60 instead of $75? Thats a bargain? That's 2X the cost of the mag subscription, and you have to PRINT the magazine, then mail it, etc. You may have to pay people to write copy and design stuff, but you don't have to pay postage to mail the website. Sorry Stace, but $60 for the website + $34.95 for the hardcopy is a ripoff. Subscribers should get a better shake than that.
Lee
The post to which I was replying asked if there was a discount if you took both the magazine and the website, which there is.It's difficult to compare the website and magazine dollar for dollar. I assume you're already familiar with the magazine. Take a look at FineWoodworkingNetwork.com, if you haven't yet.While you won't be able to read entire articles/view videos as a non-subscriber, you'll see the breadth of the site.Thanks for your comment, Stace Caseria
Copy Writer
Taunton Interactive
"As it is, your magazine is overpriced, especially considering it only issues every other month." All of the WWing mags I'm aware of, and I'm sure the vast majority of those out there, are published every other month. IMHO, if you line them all up together and compare the cover price to the content over a period of a year, FWW is not over-priced. Boil that down to the subscription price, and same goes with emphasis.
All that being said, from what I've seen this FWWNetwork.com is a completely separate thing. There seems to be some overlap with the magazine (the "1000+" articles, most probably from the erstwhile FWW CD for instance) but much of the stuff on that list is not from the magazine.
I'm not banging the drum for the new site -- all this change feels very uncomfortable, and it would be even worse if I was still using dial-up instead of DSL. I'm certainly not in the group that can afford to subscribe to the members only area, but I suspect I would find much of value there if I did subscribe. How much any given person would find could well depend on their WWing experience and other resources, I'd think.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I can't afford it either. But I will buy more wood...that is what we make furniture & other projects from.
Have fun Fww with your pay per view. But you pricing is way over the top. My opinion is that you'd have to print a separate magazine at least 1/3 bigger than the current FWW with no advertisement to be able to match the price you want for your on line stuff. But to just put it on line & hold out your hand & demand huge a ransom per year per person. You print it once & if the expense is that great & you need to charge that much per year to pay the bill & make a profit maybe your in the wrong business.
I belong to a forum that is viewer sustained we send what we can afford & some are not able to contribute but they are still welcome.
I can't imagine that it costs that much to have this web site. The only reason I can see for the high price is possibly that you won't get many takers & because of this you'll have to keep the price high....Good, better, best never let it rest until your good is better & your better best.
Yea, I know what your saying about the magazine. I guess I'm comparing it to magazines overall and it would be better to just compare it to woodworking mags. That being said, I do still subscribe to FWW and will continue to, so I guess it can't be that overpriced.I do agree that I can see value in the member's only section. I would love to have free reign over the articles. I guess that is what is fueling my frustration over the price for the member's only section. If I didn't think it would be nice to check out, I wouldn't bother posting and complaining about the price. If I put myself in Tuanton's shoes, I know they are just trying to make a buck and I won't fault them for that. But I also think they would be smarter to start the price lower and gradually increase it over the next few years. It's like the saying, "Throw a frog in boiling water and it'll jump right out, throw a frog in water and heat it, it'll boil to death." Start the price low and get people adicted to the member's only section and then jack the price.Tim
There is also economies of scale to consider. Get 100 people at $8 a pop or 1000 people at $4 a pop - they could probably make more by charging less and getting more people to subscribe than charging high and only getting a few people to subscribe.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Woody,
"is anyone actually planning on joining the pay site?"
Well I may-and I may not renew my FWW sub of 20years or so. It takes up to 8 weeks to get here by surface mail, if it makes it at all.
Maybe there is a grand plan to all this ....Philip Marcou
> Is anyone out there actually planning on joining the pay site? <
the last time my money went for something that had been repackaged that many times, it was my ex-wife no. 2 buying yet another pair of shoes.
But I predict that it will eventually be a success. For everyone that leaves, there will be two or three new folks. I think that web-based content is here to stay. Good luck with it all,...I have my complete collection of FWW now and the index booklet that went with the first 100 issues,.....I feel like there's so much in there to continually learn and explore, I don't need a lot more. Ed
Amen!!
I agree wholeheartedly.
LEE
I want to acknowledge the hard work that's put into designing something such as your new forum website. However, I want to echo many people's sentiment about the complexity of the new forum system.
I quickly counted 28 discussion groups (!) in the 6 categories. Although it's nice to know that there's probably a forum for whatever topic you want to start, I'm not sure what is to be gained from this. If anything, the 6 separate pages decrease the number of people who would see the topics, and make it less likely for them to contribute to the discussions, which is the whole point of the forum's existence. Also, unless you want to spend a significant amount of time scanning the specific topics, casual browsing (my favorite thing about Knots) is pretty much out.
Also, the forum buttons and links, which were already somewhat redundant and counter-intuitive, have become even more so. The search system now is especially confusing (and inaccurate?), with the increased number of forums and categories, which I hope is just a glitch that will be worked out. I also question the need for the "interactive" buttons that change colors when you pass the mouse cursor over them. They do look cool but at the expense of speed and simplicity. The screen's already cluttered enough.
These are all my humble opinions, but my guess is that many people share at least some of them. You had an excellent forum going, with great readership and contributors. I don't thing what has been done, at this point anyway, is an improvement.
Wow 5418, you hit the nail on the head! I have attempted to maintain an optimistic point of view regarding the site revisions while keeping in mind that nobody likes change, myself included. In turn, I have been hoping that my "resistance" to the new site was simply because I had to change my ways. However, the new site has been up for some time now, yet I still dislike the fact that it has TOO MANY folders. I get lost when attempting to find my preferred categories. I am very much a casual surfer and utilized the "Start" feature but I also enjoyed scanning all topics in one area to see if anything interested me.Unfortunately, I must agree w/ my fellow WWs that the new forum has LESS functionality than the former. Having a technological background, I can understand the work that went into the changes. But I believe that the designers (no offense intended) lost focus on the goal - sharing information amongst the contributors. As for the Members Only section, I feel as though Taunton is attempting to double-charge us. Essentially, are articles that are published in the magazine also going to be added to the paid forum? What's the point? Secondly, and I haven't determined if this is so, but are the online videos now only available thru the paid forum? Considering that the Internet provides a vast array of FREE content, I don't see how the paid forum will derive enough interest to coexist."100 Years" -- scribbled on the wall by a woodworker to remind him to do his best and as a warranty on his work -- "If anything I make fails in the first hundred years, bring it back, and I'll take care of it. After that, there will be a small charge. (Original purchaser only)"
Edited 11/17/2005 12:17 pm by zombeerose
I'm going back to my home page forum its much better & easier to use too. Oh by the way I am a financial contributer to my home page forum. Its has much better management & is much simpler to use. This has been a place I came to about 4 times a month because it was more complex to use now its like a grotesquely overgrown spider with 32 legs.There are many nice people here but I don't intend to click click click click click to see what they are up to anymore. I'm out out here. Bye bye.
Oh by the way I have never see management the can get hit in the face like the management here has in the last few days & still be so dense.Good, better, best never let it rest until your good is better & your better best.
This used to be the most convenient of the sites I normally visit- Hafta say it's become pretty cumbersome to use- And no way can I afford to join the elite group-
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