After one month in our new format it is clear that Knots has a few bugs. (some of you may chose to use harsher words, some of you may like it).
The multiple forum structure has slowed the site down; forum users have lost the ability to scan all the folders in one pass; many of the new folders have been pretty vacant; and we’ve lost some tools that allowed sysop to manage folders (yes, there has been some cursing on our end as well).
As a result, we’ve begun work to move Knots back to something that more closely resembles its previous format. There will still be more topic folders than before (I would hate to see the new turning and tips & tricks folders disappear) but they will all be accessible in a single view.
These changes are going to take a few weeks to implement, but I’ll continue posting updates as they come.
Happy Holidays,
Matt Berger
Managing Editor
FineWoodworkingNetwork.com
Replies
Matt
Thats great news!
Matt
Most of us appreciate being able to come here and enjoy the site on Taunton's dollar. I've learned in life that some folks just can't handle change at all. The site is a little too busy, and some condensation would probably be good.
Thanks, and have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Jeff
BTW, I'm still waiting to see that article in FWW about old industrial woodworking machinery!(grin)
I think we all appreciate being able to come online and enjoy the site. I don't think it's fair to broadstroke those of us that feel that this new format is less than perfect and voice our frustrations. Nor do I think that anyone truly objects to Taunton making a buck from their efforts either.
I asked a question regarding how the experiment was going because the clunkiness of the site had lost my interest. I was curious what others thought and most comments lean toward the loss of continuity in search functions, folder usage and overall community feel. I'm not sure that's not being able to "handle change at all" as much as it is positive feedback on how to make the product better which, I think, has been a hallmark of Taunton's products since their beginning.
Peace.
Bru
My comments were not directed towards your post or your comments at all. I agree with you totally that without proper feedback, both positive and negative, noone will know what to change in ANY situation.
My comments were to Matt about letting him know how I felt, as well as letting SYSOP know that not everybody is threatening to leave the site because of the changes. There were a few guys who used to contribute here who basically said "the heck with these changes", and threatened to never come back, take their bat and ball, and go home for good. I say to those fine fellas, "Adios!!!!" Most of them were distraught when they replaced Atari with Nintendo, too.
Nothing I hate more than threats. I've had employees make threats like that in the past, and I show em' the door. There's a right way and a wrong way to let Matt and the boys know how we feel. I believe your post reflected the right way, so please don't take offense.
Merry Christmas,
Jeff
No problem, Jeff. I wasn't aware that there were threats but then again I haven't kept my finger on the pulse of this forum (hence my original post!).
Matt,
That's great news. It should be noted by all that Taunton is listening to us and making changes that we suggested. As for the harsh words, you need to understand that the types of people that come to a woodworking forum are really passtionate about woodworking. Since this is the best place to discuss woodworking, everyone has an opinion on how it should be run. People may go overboard from time to time, but they have the best interest of the community at heart.
I just hope that those people that prematurely threw their hands up in frustration check back in to see that Tuanton has listened to us. I'll be patiently waiting for the new/old forum.
Thanks Matt!
Tim
you need to understand that the types of people that come to a woodworking forum are really passtionate about woodworking.Hell! I'm am happy if I do not see sanding scratches!
I am a long time subscriber to FWW magazine. Also enjoy the on line stuff. Was not sure what happened as I don't get on line as often as I would like to. Glad that we are getting back a bit to older formats, etc. Bugs are always a problem but you folks will take care I am sure. Thanks for a fine magazine. It is the class of the lot!!!
Ron Spagna
Smart move. As mentioned by another knot head I am apreciative of the time and money yall invest in what I assume is a non-revenue generating project.
The new format has its advantages, but it is too hard to scan for threads that interest us. I often can't find a thread that I was following the day before.
Mike
Matt, I'm so sorry things didn't work out after the hundreds(thousands?) of hours y'all put into the new format. I tried to believe in it, but simply ran into too many obstacles. One thing I want to bring up specifically, hoping that the problem won't carry over to the Next Knots, and that is the inability to search all of the "sections" (whatever they end up being called) with one search.
Hope things start looking for you and the rest of the sysop folks!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks for the upcoming changes
Mr. Berger -
Thanks for recognizing what for some of us were obstacles in using the discussion site. I say obstacles since in my case, with 30 year old copper wires in the street and no broadband in site for what remains of my time here on earth, browsing the folders was indeed .... an obstacle. The old format was considerably simpler for the likes of us mere dial-up junkies! (grin)
None the less, I applaud your inclusion of the new turning forum, something I'd been looking forward to since becoming a visitor here. And I intend to keep my Fine Woodworking subscription active not only for the great content of the publication itself but as a show of support for this service, the Knots discussion group.
Whatever the outcome, thanks for all your efforts! Beyond that, here's wishing you and the entire FWW staff a very Merry Christmas and prosperous New Year as well!
Happy Holidays INDEED!!! That's the best news I've read all week!
Looking forward to a more concise format. And dito to everyone that mentioned the difficulties in tracking a thread after a day+.
Happy Holidays ALL!
"100 Years" -- scribbled on the wall by a woodworker to remind him to do his best and as a warranty on his work -- "If anything I make fails in the first hundred years, bring it back, and I'll take care of it. After that, there will be a small charge. (Original purchaser only)"
So, is the "Members Only" section going away... do they get their money back???
Are you going to leave Breaktime just the way it is? I hope so.
I guess I'm getting old(43) I don't seem to like changes anymore, specially when it comes to computers
Old? I'm getting ready to hit fifty, so you have plenty of time left. But it is easy to get used to some things, and wanting to keep them that way. After all, there are two kinds of change.
Migraine!If you call 43 "old" then at 64+ .... I must be stone age. Kids these days ..... (grin)
Our online subscription service is alive and well, Migraine.I think there's a common misconception that a subscription only gets you access to another forum, which just happens to be called "members only." That's not the case at all. The experts forum, where you can post questions to our contributors and editors, is just one small part of the subscription, which also includes access to 1000 archive articles, hunderds of web articles, 130 videos (and counting), 650 tool reviews, etc...I hate to be the bearer of bad news but "change" and "computers" are synonomous. I just learned this the hardway last weekend when I tried to install a movie editing software on my 3-year-old home computer only to find that I need to upgrade my operating system for it to work! It's only 3 years old!
Matt;
I've been on the members net for a little over a week now and my wife has a major complaint. I am enjoying it way too much (every evening for a couple hours)! It's getting so bad it's starting to interfere with football -- but it's worth the sacrifice.
Just want to say thanks! Oh yes, and have a great holiday (whatever you call it!)Norm (never been on TV)
Nice to hear Norm. I think my wife and your wife would have a lot to talk about!
After you send BC's check to 110 South Curmudgeon St., be sure to 1099 him so that it shows up on his income taxes. (kidding)
The access to the archives IS WORTH THE MONEY and no doubt the most valuable aspect of the subscription service. If you'd rather listen to the advice of bona fide experts, instead of blowhards like me, I'd strongly suggest buying a subscription.
I can see the members only forum really taking off. Lately, there have been some pretty well-known blokes over there available to answer questions. Me, I know everything so I haven't availed myself of that particular feature but all of you who can't find your butt with both hands could definitely benefit. Ducking and running...
Hey Matt, I know your difficulties all to well... Glad to see you are working to correct the problem. This is what happens when software developers make things too easy for the programmers. Sometimes less really is more.
Stay on it. Take heart in the fact that I'll be hangin in there cheering you on.
Steve
"You can either be smart or pleasant, I was once smart but now I'm pleasant. I like being pleasant better." Jimmy Stewart - Harvey
Matt, I think the rapidity with which you folks at Taunton addressed the problems many had with the format change speaks for itself.
Having done some graphic design and tinkered now and then with web design, I can appreciate it.
I do like being able to scroll through a list of discussion groups. I also like the look of the new design.
Best wishes for a prosperous new year.
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