Replies

1. 
   GregB126 | Feb 12, 2003 04:01am | #1

   Dale,

   I have done so many times, usually in a box-making context.  No problems.  I'm curious about your specific concern.  Is it concern over use of tropicals in general, or is it something about Koa in particular?

   Cheers,

   Greg

1. 
   Timberwerks | Feb 12, 2003 04:39am | #2

   Greg

   It is more of a question with the Koa. This is the first time using Koa for me. I have used other wood's like Cocobolo that did not accept pva glue. I am also looking for the best bonding adhesive possible for this lamination since the body of the guitar is contoured and the Koa is on the thick side of an 1/8". Most of the laminations I have done are only flat.

   Thanks for your help

   Dale

1. 
   GregB126 | Feb 12, 2003 05:40am | #3

   Dale,

   I can't advise on instrument making; perhaps Jon may notice this and answer that part authoritatively.  I have played with Koa quite a bit and have not had any difficulty with pva.  Whether it is optimal for your application is unknown to me.  It is beautiful stuff, though, and will no doubt be a feast for the eyes.

   Just for the fun of it, you may like to visit

   http://www.hawaii-forest.org/guide/hawaiiswood.html

   Interesting descriptions of many woods of Hawaii.  A general search of the net should land you right in the middle of some beautiful photos of guitars.  Add the word, "milo" to "koa" and "guitar", as milo is sometimes used along with koa in guitar and ukulele making.  It is an amazing, chocolate-hued timber with a very pleasing spicy scent when worked.  A very nice compliment to the lighter, iridescent koa.

   Cheers,

   Greg

1. 
   Timberwerks | Feb 12, 2003 07:08am | #4

   Thanks Greg

2. 
   jonsherryl | Feb 12, 2003 09:07pm | #7

   Greg, I've followed this thread, but don't have much to add and I agree with all the previous posts.

   I was at first puzzled that the issue of koa's gluing properties would come up. It's a moderately coarse textured wood that allows for a good mechanical bond and it doesn't have any interfering extractives. It is moderately dense, so it's not as absorptive as the traditional softwood tone woods like spruce or cedar, but it should be a lot easier to glue than many of the woods traditionally used in guitar making, such as maple. Certainly far easier to glue than any of the rosewoods, ebony and other fine textured and extremely dense species used as accent species in musical instrument making. 

1. 
   GregB126 | Feb 13, 2003 03:23am | #8

   Jon,

   I was a little puzzled too, not because I know so very much, but because glue-ups with koa have always been a breeze in my own experience.  Not knowing what I don't know, the question arose as to whether there were indeed extractives or oils which just aren't present in the timbers up in my wood store.  That stuff is 20 years old and air dried, very stable and as cured to my area as anything could possibly be.  However, I am not a musical instrument maker and can't speak intelligently on any aspect of that craft.

   I wonder, though, if you've ever had the pleasure to see or work with Milo.  Beautiful wood.  The heartwood is chocolate-like and the sapwood a creamy sometimes pinkish hue.  Working it is a pleasure, except it might be a bit brittle sometimes.  Very easy to plane, unlike koa, as it is consistent/even.  Its fragrance when worked is pleasant and spicy.  The heartwood is quite dark when oiled (e.g. Tried & True), and this results in the subtle figure kind of being lost.  Even the macassar ebony I've had the pleasure to use maintains its grain appearance (brown flowing within the black) better than the milo after oil.  One of its most beautiful aspects, to me, is milo's transition between heart and sapwood.  Each lovely in its own way, and a lovely natural contrast.  (Not the least like koa sapwood, which can be very light and sometimes even have a "dirty" appearance.) 

   Web searches of both timbers will yield a lot of beautiful guitar and ukulele sites and photos.  I have to believe its because of the beauty of the iridescent koa, then the desire to remain tropically consistent by bringing the milo along.  I would bet tonal quality wasn't koa's first attribute in getting it into so many guitars.  Slack key could also fit into the explanation....

   Cheers,

   Greg

2. 
   Timberwerks | Feb 13, 2003 04:01am | #9

   Thanks for your help guy's

   I asked about the glue up because I mainly work with domestic wood's and I have heard some exotic's do not glue well. Since it is not my money going into this project I want to make sure everything goes well. After seeing the Koa for the first time in person I am really excited about working with it. I would also like to use it in some furniture in the future. Do any of you know where I can find larger thicker pieces of Koa. My friend found his on Ebay and his source supplies mainly instrument makers. I would like to obtain pieces I could resaw myself or something as large as a coffe table size and maybe 6/4's thick if possible. Any links you may have is apreciated.

   Thanks

   Dale 

3. 
   GregB126 | Feb 13, 2003 08:20am | #10

   Timber,

   You're very welcome.  I don't know about mainland sources.  Mine is all from fallen trees cut with a chainsaw "mill" and shipped to California in a container years ago.

   I have seen some periodically in MacBeath's, as well as a local (to the S.F. Bay area) place called Handloggers, but the prices were staggering.  Be sure you inquire as to that.  You may want to do another web search, but that may put you in a sight unseen purchasing position, adding shipping to an already high price.  Further, it has been my experience that hawaiian locals don't offer friendly discounts to mainland purchasers.  Just a word of caution.  I wish there was a better answer.  You may just stumble onto something good.  Maybe one of our mates here in Knots will be that good luck charm.

   Oh, there's one other thing.  You may also ask about Black Acacia.  It is remarkably similar in appearance to koa.  Indeed, koa is sometimes referred to as Acacia Koa.  Cousins.  It grows like weeds in northern California.  Some urban recyclers mill up wind-fallen trees.  Here's an example I just found in Oakland, Ca.  Look under "product catalog" and then "lumber".  I haven't driven there yet.

   http://www.recycletrees.org/

   Cheers,

   Greg

2. 
   ian | Feb 12, 2003 02:48pm | #5

   Dale

   hopefully someone familar with instrument making will chime in, but my understanding is that musical instruments like violins and guitars are glued up with a reversible adhesive like hide glue. 

3. 
   bsutton12 | Feb 12, 2003 08:11pm | #6

   Most instrument makers use some kind of hide glue (I think violin makers use rabbit skin glue) which allows future disassembly.