Replies

1. 
   dgreen | Sep 24, 2006 09:34am | #1

   All right TinaK whoever you are, what recent message are you refering to regarding the selling price of the plane? The last message I can find regarding it is from Aug. 30 and those posts did not disparage krenov or the price his plane sold for. As for his work and reputation being the reason for the high bid I beg to differ with your reasoning. That is only one of many possible reasons, other worshippers like yourself have paid more for cheese sandwiches that they fancy seeing a divine likeness in. How much do you figure tom cruise's spawns bronzed first turd would have sold for had it not been pulled from ebay? I saw no posts that were disrespectful towards Krenov, on the contrary they were quite complimentary. Do you seriously believe anyone of the people posting on that thread wished him to lose his sight? I don't recall any post begrudging krenov whatever he could get from his plane, I think most of us were hoping he didn't need the money. The only disrespectful posts I saw were from those who were analy obsessed with the correct spelling of their idols name and as I noted krenov himself is spelling challenged.

   I am happy to see he thought the price was obscene and took it upon himself to give the buyer what Krenov considered to be fair value, that is very much in character from what I have read. The fact that Krenov thought the price obscene only validates the opinion of those of us who felt the same way. As I said before there are fools and speculators that would pay an obscene price for his used underwear or fingernail clippings, I am happy to see he still believes in giving someone fair value for their money regardless of how foolish they may be. Why don't you get off your knees, quit bowing before your idol and go work some wood, Krenov needs no defense especially from the likes of a humorless person like yourself. Learn something from him, apply it in your own way to something you produce. That would be the true measure of his worth as a teacher or mentor. Krenov is himself opinionated and not always "respectful" of others work, I doubt very much he values bootlickers rising to his defense for imagined slights to his honor. 

   Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
2. 
   9619 | Sep 24, 2006 04:25pm | #2

   Hi Tina,
   I enjoyed your posting on the Krenov EBay plane. I participated in the thread on that plane and I enjoyed that thread as well. The diversity of "Values" on Knots is a good part of its charm. You are obviously very devoted to Mr. Krenov. Nothing particularly wrong with that.

   There are always many ways of seeing the same thing. You are focusing on showing respect for a master woodworker. I didn't feel that the essence of the previous thread had anything to do with Mr. Krenov. To me, it had to do with how people view and value "hero worship". The thread would not have been much different if Tage Frid's bowsaw were put up for auction on EBay. One could even think of a descendant of Thomas Chippendale putting the pen with which he authored his famous book up for auction on EBay.

   If someone wants to pay "a lot of money" (a very subjective phrase) for an item just because it is associated with a famous person, that's their business. Value is very subjective. One man's meat is another man's poison."

   IMHO, the thread on Mr. Krenov's EBay plane was a group of woodworkers comparing their values on paying lots of money for a souvenier. Just as your values are valid, and I support them, the values of those who don't put much value on "hero worship" are valid, and I support them. It was the discussion of those values that was interesting. There is no one in Knots who does not know and appreciate the contribution of James Krenov to woodworking.

   One could delve deeper into that thread, and conclude that some of the contributors were not "nice" or "sensitive" in making their feelings known. That may be true. However, it is the nature of Knots, that people react in real time, and don't make multiple drafts, as they would for material for publication. Indeed many posts are intended to be edgy. To me, this is part of the charm of Knots.

   Unfortunately, there is a fine line betweeen being interesting/edgy/provocative and being mean. Examining that fine line is dangerous and difficult business.

   I apologize for my overly-long response. If I were more intelligent, I could have made it shorter. We are talking about human behaviour, and that is a complex topic. My suggestion to you is that you should not take that previous thread as an affront to Mr. Krenov, but as a public discussion of the value of paying high prices for items associated with famous people. The fact that the thread was sparked by a Krenov plane is a tribute to the man.

   I applaud your devotion to Mr. Krenov. Just as you are asking people to be sensitive to Mr. Krenov, I ask that you be sensitive to people who want to publicly discuss their values on hero worship. I do deplore anyone making personal affronts for any reason.

   I hope you continue to use Knots and that you enjoy it. If you know Mr. Krenov, please tell him that you came across yet another person who is in awe of his work and of contributions to the field of woodworking.

   Mel

   Measure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   TinaK | Sep 24, 2006 07:42pm | #3

   Mel, thank you for attempting to clarify the threads...but they did not need clarification; the posts were very clear and to whatever point each person needed to make. Obviously, I wasn't as clear. Again, "hero worship" is your term; respect for the several accomplishments made by JK is my term. They may be the same; they may be different...I do not know you and cannot tell. Not important. I'm only posting because some people believe that JK pocketed $1200 for one plane when he in effect sent out three--and that should mean something to those who wondered about the monetary issue. I am not interested in discussing personal philosophy and I do not question anybody's dedication to their craft or their beliefs. Just again stating a fact that might be of interest to those who took issue with the auction.

1. 
   mwenz | Sep 24, 2006 08:46pm | #4

   Hi Tina,

   I think for the most part, JK, whom has my abiding respect, does not need defending. Nor will it prove productive I feel. I respectfully think that this thread should not have begun. I believe the older threads displayed a sort of polarization which is difficult to see changed in a forum setting. And I don't mean that as a negative. We each can and should form our own opinions. It was to say others' opinions can rarely be changed and often proves antithetical to a goal of reasoning to another they are wrong. Indeed, it can be rather cementitious of the former's opinion.

   I remember once at a ball game, when my children were young and were on one of the teams, another father said some unkind things about me. One of my children lept to my defence in an attempt to defend me I suppose. It was one of those moments which touched me--but my child should not have done so. It was counterproductive in resolving a situation which would have run its course and been over with.

   I wish you, Britta and JK the best.

   Take care, Mike

1. 
   TinaK | Sep 24, 2006 09:04pm | #5

   Mike, point taken! I just thought the clarification regarding the auction might be deserved and needed... I get what you're saying though. Thank you.
   Tina

1. 
   mwenz | Sep 24, 2006 09:39pm | #6

   Hi Tina,

   And I was remiss in not mentioning how much I appreciate what JK did for the high bidder. That too is cementitious of my idea, my concept, of JK.

   I wish I had been able to stop by and meet Jim this past winter when I passed through the north coast.

   Take care, Mike

2. 
   TinaK | Sep 24, 2006 09:53pm | #7

   Mike,
   then my post was not in vain...:-)
   Thanks again!
   Tina

3. 
   Troy | Sep 26, 2006 02:40am | #8

   To all the people who where offended by the amount of money somebody paid for the Kernov plane on e-bay they really should get a life. If somebody feels like paying that much for a plane than thats their choice . I really don't think that it is worth the vetriol some people where displaying. Personally I would not pay that for one of his planes but then I would not buy a 50 grand baseball card or other such thing. I am sure that there is some speclulation and hope for a rapid rise in price in the future when Mr. Kernov passes away. Anyway all power to Mr. Kernov if he can sell his planes at that price.

   Troy

1. 
   dgreen | Sep 26, 2006 03:09am | #9

   What on earth are you talking about? Who are these people that were offended? From what I've been able to gather the only person "offended" by the price was Krenov himself.
   Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb

2. 
   JeffHeath | Sep 26, 2006 03:45am | #10

   Troy

   If you're gonna defend Krenov, at least learn to spell his name.  K-R-E-N-O-V. 

   Not Kernov.

   The gentleman created his own niche in history for woodworkers, and needs no defenders here, or anywhere else, for that matter.

1. 
   Floss | Sep 26, 2006 04:10am | #11

   I thought his post a satirical reply to the others in the original post.Funny!J.P.

2. 
   Troy | Sep 26, 2006 06:52am | #12

   Nothing like a few typos (his name was right in front of me when I replied to the post :) to get people talking. Anyway it must of been my interpration of the posts that made me think that some people were offended by the high price of the plane that was auctioned. My post was not a defense of Krenov in particular although I think he is an original which is very hard to be when you are creating something weather it is out of wood or any other medium. Troy

1. 
   mapleman | Sep 26, 2006 06:58am | #13

   Wow, is this Deja Vu or what? Right down to the mis-spelling of the guy's name. Maybe we should recreate the original post since it has been obliterated off the face of the earth.

   Lee

3. 
   gb93433 | Sep 27, 2006 08:52am | #14

   That plane was cheaper than many spend on beer.

1. 
   dgreen | Sep 27, 2006 08:58am | #15

   Unfortunately, used beer has very little resale value :)
   Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb