Hi friends,
Why wont my water stones produce a mirror finish?
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I was using sanding paper to sharpen my blades with excellent results. The surfaces were polished to a MIRROR finish. I switched to Japanese water stones because fine grit paper was expensive, hard to find, and required lots of TLC in storing it.
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Now using 800/ 1200/ 8000 water stones but they fail to produce the mirror finish the paper did. Even though they sharpen “hair shaving” sharp, I cannot obtain the bright and shiny mirror finish I got when using sand “paper”. 8000 stone produces a rather dull gray finish. Why will my water stones not produce the mirror finish? It was much easier to see the lapped edge emerging with the paper than with the stones.
Replies
Keef,
You will need an intermediate stone between the 1200 and 8000. That is a prety big jump in grit change so if you get a 4000 grit stone it will get rid of the scratches from the 1200 and help you obtain the mirror polish you are looking for.
If you get a leather strop, you could strop after the 1200 and get a mirror polish when you charge the leather with a little yellowstone.
J.P.
Keef-
I have had the same problem as you. I used a 800/1200/4000/8000 and still didn't get a mirror finish. But what a started doing is using tormack paste or almost any metal polish. Because they have microgrit, meaning I think that when you start using the paste it is about 10,000-12,000 grit and as you work it to polish it goes down alittle, but it works great.
Kaleo Kala
http://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
Keef, On another forum, can't remember which, a number of posters noticed a matte finish on their finest waterstone, as do I, but the consensus, to the extent there was one, was that as long as the iron is sharp, don't worry about the lack of a mirror shine. You might also try stropping with leather, without any charging medium, after the 8000 stone to see if you get a mirror finish - I don't know if it makes it any sharper but it can cometimes bring out that shine. Barry
A lot of people mention strops. I've never been a big believer in strops. I tend to use the fatty part on the palm of my hand. I guess it works just like a strop, i mean all skin can be made into leatherKaleo Kalahttp://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
Kaleo,
How exactally did you use the polish?
Keef-I would put the polish on something flat, I've found that the see through paper that you use on a over head projector on a piece of glass works well. Then I rubb the sole of the chisel over the paste for a little bit. You should notice the paste getting black. Then with my honing guide and the chisel set for whatever bevel or micro-bevel that you might have, I run the tip over the paste also. But always pulling the chisel back towards you, or you will cut through the paper and into the glass and damage your end. Then like I said I tend to use the palm of my hand as a strop and that's it. You then have your 2 sides on the chisel edge perfect mirror surfaces. those givening you sharpest edge you can get.Kaleo Kalahttp://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
I keep a buffing wheel on one side of my grinder and charge it with white diamond compound. This doesn't give you the most possible shine but it's pretty nice and very fast. Makes a long lasting edge quickly. Be very careful with things like knife blades which can get grabbed by the wheel. Chisels and such are easy. Don't overdo it as you'll round your edge too much. Just a quick touch or two and you're good to go. I have a ceramic stone that's a polishing stone and will give a pretty good shine but it does not compare with the buffing wheel in speed or quality. It can give you a slightly sharper edge but it's edge won't last as long.
Keef
Are you working with wood, or making display chisels?? If they're sharp, and their backs are flat, get to work, and quit worrying about whether you can see yourself or not.
Jeff
Jeff,
I've recently started testing my edges for sharpness by breathing on them, and carefully watching to see if any airborne microbes get cut in two. A mirror finish doubles the pleasure of seeing their screaming little bodies flying off through space, and eases cleanup chores. Gotta look close, though!
Cheers,
Ray
Ray
You must be spending quality time with Lee Grindinger. LMAO.
Jeff
"---spending quality time with Lee Grindinger"
I thought that was one definition of an oxymoron?
I like Ray's test for sharpness. I watch to see if the smoke from a cigarette blown over the sharpened edge will split the smoke molecules.
The only problem with this method is that the corrosive effect of the smoke causes the micro-precise edge to develop visibly severe pitting-- this renders it useless without a further hour or two of intensive sharpening.
I think I need a drink. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 9/5/2006 5:29 pm by SgianDubh
...I was using sanding paper to sharpen my blades with excellent results....
I think the fix for your waterstone "problem" is somewhere in this statement.
Is there something about excellence you find intolerable?
Edited 9/6/2006 6:51 am ET by BossCrunk
I think I have exactly the same 3 stones as you and get great results. Do you use a Nagura stone to form a paste on your 8000 stone? This is a critical step.
from Rockler web site: "Nagura Stone - Forms a paste on finer grit Waterstones to speed and enhance polishing. Use with the 6000 grit stone. As shown in photo on the right."
asinning,
I have a Nagura stone, wasn't sure of its use. Maybe that is the issue. THanks for the input.
Its true I'm not entering my blades in a "shiney blade" contest, however, its a bit difficult to see the polishing progress and the sharpening of the 8000 stone when the surface looks so much like the previous stone. I would have stayed with the sand paper, but it is not easy to find locally, it wears rather fast, and it seems more prone to "cross contamination" than the water stones.
I do appreciate everyone's input, I will use the Nagura stone and perhaps a bit of polish, cause I do like to see the polished edge. Now I will get back to work and quit worrying so much.....
Thanks again,
KB
Edited 9/4/2006 6:53 pm ET by Keef
Edited 9/4/2006 6:53 pm ET by Keef
I use a norton 8000 and I do get a mirror finish without using a nagura stone or really trying. I use a 4000 in the middle though. The other thing is you want to use the 8000 stone damp, but without any standing water on it.
Pete
I dont' have any special training or expertice. I am an amature with about 20 years of experience. I've been using the Japanese stones for about 12 years. All I can say is that I use my stones "by the book." This means using the Nagura stone to create a wet "slurry" of the honing stone on the surface of the stone. This slurry put a very fast mirror finish on my knives.I use an older Veritas honing guide to hold the knives at a constant angle. There are other similar and perhaps better systems available. The advantage of using a guide is that you can put a great deal of force behind the blade and still maintain the proper honing/grinding angle. I have found that force is quite critical to the process, but perhaps this is because my hands do not move very fast....
Go to a well stocked auto parts store that stocks professional auto body finishing supplies. Look for a product called "DuPont Perfect-it III". This is a rubbing out compound and it will take you to a mirror polish and razor edge better than anything I've tried (basically everything!). Keep a piece of MDF board and squirt out a bit of the DuPont compound and "rub" away as if it were another stone.
I bought my quart size container about three or four years ago and still have 75% left. The cost was about $12 to $15 for the quart.
Thanks for the tip. I've been using "Flitz" polish on a piece of leather. I'll have to try the auto polish, sounds much cheaper and easier.
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