Wow, after reading the other Laguna posts here, I have to wonder what company you’ve been dealing with. I bought my X31 in the early 90’s. It was missing a couple of parts. They shipped them immediately when I called. One other part was bent, and they shipped out a replacement without asking for a return.
In my book, they care about their customers.
I wouldn’t all pile on Laguna just because one very vocal customer is complaining everywhere – he’s cross-posted to several other places. We don’t know all the specifics of his complaints. If he didn’t investigate the machine properly before buying, that’s his problem. It is obvious to me that he doesn’t understand that the machines are made in Europe, and use European metric measurements. The width of the miter guide is EUROPEAN standard. It’s not a problem with the guide!
And I must say that I don’t use the guide at all – that’s what the sliding table is for!
It appears to me that James is trying to hurt Laguna with this very public complaining, rather than getting the problems fixed. Does he want his machine to be an orphan by trying to put the company out of business??
By the way, there is a very supportive group of Robland X-31 owners on the yahoogroups. It is a very friendly place to visit.
Replies
T4,
I see you have just joined the forum today. Welcome.
Others more cynical than I will probably wonder if you are a plant, but (for now) I'll take you at your word.
Did you read the entire thread on Laguna? James was not alone in his complaints. Several others have suffered in a similar way. If you have had good service on your machine then I am pleased for you. But please do not attempt to lead others to think that James is either somehow to blame for his misfortunes or that he is the only person to have experienced poor response from Laguna. The entirety of the post would quickly prove you wrong.
Rennie
A man is a fool if he drinks before he reaches the age of 50, and a fool if he doesn't afterward.
Frank Lloyd Wright
No, I'm not a "plant". I did get good support from Laguna.What I find particularly galling is that James is posting his dissatisfaction on every forum he can find. He evidently is joining forums just to voice his displeasure. I have been a member of the yahoo group for several years - today James showed up with 2 negative posts. That is what prompted me to join this forum - I don't believe in handling problems by dissing a company all over the 'net.I strongly believe "Evil flourishes when good men do nothing."
—Edmund Burke
I can't believe some of the responses on here.<!----><!----><!---->
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Is this some sort of Witch-hunt? You are with us or against us?
This sort of paranoia is inexcusable as is accusing someone of being a plant. <!----><!---->
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Frank<!----><!---->
When I asked Laguna salespeople about their poor customer service record during the last few years they always blamed it on a few ringers at Minimax USA. They always have some excuse. So they are aware of the ploy. If you complain about a salesperson they say he doesn't work hear anymore.
I'm glad I purchased an Agazzani B20. I think resawing 16 to 18 inches for a one man shop is something that is highly overated in buying decisions for bandsaws. I have an 8'x 18"x 10/4 piece of curly English walnut to resaw for a two piece tabletop for a customer's table. I really think it's unrealistic to think that one man can resaw this board without investing in more and more stuff like feeders that I would not use much.
Turners of large vessels might be able to use this large capacity regularly but not most furniture makers. Of course, I'm trying to rationalize my own purchase.
Just a thought but Minimax USA ( Laguna's biggest competitor) is reported to have great customer service. After a year of reading their owner's forum they have had too many customers having to use their CS because of bad switches , electrical problems, mobility kit problems and other bandsaw problems. It seems they take care of their customers once there is a problem unlike Laguna. Both of them scared me off. Maybe the same thing would have happened if Eagle Tools had a forum for Agazzani bandsaws.
Edited 9/8/2006 7:17 pm ET by woodchuck49
Hey guys, why don't you think James is a "plant" from MinMax, Felder, etc.?I just joined today because of James posting such derogatory comments on the yahoo Robland forum, and referring people over here to this thread. I really don't have the time to wade through these posts. I prefer to make things.I've corresponded with Robin Lee, and yes, Lee Valley Tools has fantastic customer service. It is something other companies should aspire to. But a very vocal customer, who is not itemizing his complaints so that others may judge their validity, complaining about a company is not professional. I would like to see the itemized complaints from James, and the Laguna responses, before I would make any judgements about the company.I've dealt with some really difficult customers of my own. You shouldn't make up your minds about a situation without seeing the real facts and data, not just one person's rantings.And I'm responding here because I'm sick of all the bad-mouthing about a company that has provided me with good service. It's time they got some praise too!
A litany of complaints about Laguna have been posted on forums for years. Where there is smoke ____ is _____!
I even had a Laguna salesperson tell me that favorable postings for Minimax bandsaws were a plant. It goes on and on!
I think buying and using a bandsaw should be fun. They reduced it to a sickening experience.
I voted with my dollars elswhere.
I can assure each and everyone of you that I am in no way a "plant" for anyone. I have been in business for myself in Austin Texas as a general contractor. I have been doing construction work since I was 12 years old helping neighbors with roofs and odd jobs. I am now 45 years old.
I do ZERO advertising, all my customers come to me via word of mouth. If anyone of my customers has an issue with my work, I do whatever it takes to keep them happy, maybe that's why I'm not rich and retired already. The majority of my work for the past 5 years has been custom cabinetry.
After hurricane Allison hit Houston a few years back I went down to help several of my old co-workers rebuild their flooded homes, building 3 new sets of kitchen cabinets on a new Jet Table saw which I purchased from WoodCraft in Houston TX. I also used a Jet 1 1/2 hp shaper purchased from WoodCraft here in Austin.
When I build my new workshop, I decided it was time to upgrade from my Jet equipment. In April 2005 I did shop around to Fielder, MiniMax and Laguna asking questions and getting prices on the machines which I felt fit my needs at the time. Carl Knapp from Laguna and I spoke at length about my needs and my limited budget. At the time, the Robland X31 seemed like the best choice for my budget.
I can assure you my issues are not with the metric system. Although I am not college educated, I do consider myself quite knowledgeable. I have worked for Schlumberger in the shaped charge manufacturing, with their engineers, as well as working for Shell Chemical in Deer Park Texas.
The reason I'm posting to as many different message boards is to find out how many other people have had the same type experience I have had with this company.
I have tried for over a year, using "normal" channels (phone, email, and fax) to try and get my machine and all its parts here and assembled so that I can use my machine to its fullest extent, not at some reduced functionality. When after a year of these attempts I could not get my problems resolved with this company, yes I did resort to using message boards to try to get this issue(s) resolved.
Its not my intention to offend anyone, I'm merely shining my light on the problems I've had with this company. If you have had a wonderful experience with the company its your privilege to post all the great comments you care to, without fear of rebuttal from me, but please allow me the same privilege of posting my experiences also.
Edited 9/8/2006 8:25 pm ET by JustJames
Right on. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Even crooks have friends. Bad businesses can find at least one person who is happy.
I read your post and took it with a grain of salt. Every company has it's distractors, so I don't look at one post to see what's happening. I do however pay attention when I see as many negative posts about one company and from areas covered by differqant distributors. This is athe land of free speach so you needn't aplogize for expressing your opinion.
I woul like to point out the T4wood first stated "Wow, after reading the other Laguna posts here, I have to wonder what company you've been dealing with." he then defended himself by stateing "I really don't have the time to wade through these posts. I prefer to make things." Seems a little fishy to me.
Jack
Well, James seems a lot more reasonable in his response here than first appeared. The rest of you could learn from him. The issue I had was with him jumping into the yahoo group with the "come look at this thread" about problems with the X31. No other posts. James, I was not accusing you of being a "plant". I was just trying to point out to the other posters that were "piling on me" about being a plant that there was no way to determine that you weren't one also. Heck, I could be a "thirteen-year-old girl", thanks to the web! There seem to be an awful lot of conspiracy junkies on this forum!I do note that a number of people seem to have issues with the Laguna bandsaws. I don't own one, so I haven't commented on them. My comments are directly related to my personal experience with the X31, and with the comments I have read over the years on the yahoo group devoted to that product.James, if you would have read some of the archives on the yahoo group, you would find that although the instructions from Laguna are skimpy, some of the members have put together terrific "how to" web sites, traveled at their expense to the factory to take pictures of the factory technicians adjusting the machine, and put photocopies of the parts manual on the web. They would be happy to help you.And yes, there have been many comments on that group about the poor documentation. It has been a sore point for everyone. But it's not a reason to ignore a good machine. When people on the group have a problem, it has usually been resolved very quickly with Laguna. Your experience is a surprise.It is important that everyone realize that the X31 is not a single function machine, so there are compromises. I can live with them, as can the other people in the yahoo group. If you are doing high volume production, you probably will be happier with dedicated machines - if you have the room.The miter guage issue isn't really an issue in my view. Yes, the guage is kind of lightweight, not like the Delta. I was surprised when I saw it too. But you never have to use it! The sliding table is so much better. I would still be interested in seeing what the facts and data are in this case. Maybe your complaints appear to be unreasonable to Laguna, and they might to some of us. To others of us, they would appear reasonable. Without the data, we will never know. Since you have been dealing with them on this issue for a year, you should have lots of written records.By the way, my comment about reading posts was referring to the tremendous quantity of posts about woodworking all over the internet. I can't even keep up with rec.woodworking, let alone reading forums such as this. The only thread I've read here was the one James pointed to, and the one I started.I also don't advertise, and still have to turn away business. That's what I meant about being too busy to read the posts.
You are definitely confused about the entire miter guide item. You seem to think I'm referring to the very small two piece item they send along which slips into the groove in the fixed table.
Unfortunately you assume that's what I'm speaking of. This is NOT the piece. My major concern is the miter guide which is an integral part of the sliding table. The sliding table pictured on the Laguna Tools Website at the time of my purchase and still today shows a SOLID cast iron sliding table with the miter gauge as one piece. What was shipped to me is a half cast iron sliding table and a BOLT on stamped steel miter gauge to which the 4 foot (not metric, 4 American feet) aluminum fence. This stamped steel is a cheap imitation of what should have been sent with my machine. If Laguna Tools no long sold / sells this machine with the solid cast iron sliding table, they should CEASE and DESIST showing this photograph as the item they are selling. This is misleading.
I hope this data helps clarify at least one of the reasons for my complaints.
I also find it a difficult pill to swallow to rely upon other owners, and other websites for the "proper" factory specs and assembly instructions for a piece of equipment I purchase from Laguna Tools.
All I asked for is the machine which I thought I paid for, one that was either shipped assembled and aligned ready to go out of the box, or a machine which was shipped to me with the PROPER instructions for assembly and alignment, so that I can operate it SAFELY and EFFICIENTLY with many years of satisfactory use.
I as a small business owner cannot afford, nor do I wish to tour the factory where this machine was made. I don't wish to tour the Toyota factory either, yet when I purchase my Toyota vehicle I was expecting and did receive the item which I assumed I was purchasing, and when required receive adequate service to safely maintain and operate that piece of equipment.
Again this is not an attempt to slam any one, or any company, its just expressing what has happened to me personally.
With the trials and tribulations you have endured with this machine, let me add my voice to say that I think everything you have said is temperate and moderate. As a first time poster, T4wood's comments should be viewed with a certain amount of suspicion. But I do agree with him that when a particular company is under attack around here, it is valuable to hear from people who have had good experiences. Laguna may not like it that you have made your troubles public, but I hope it encourages (or compels) them to step up and make a real effort to resolve your problems. And if they do, I hope you will come back to this forum (and the other forums you have visited) with that information. Not only would it be the right thing to do, I think it would help other customers with problems.I think Laguna is probably a decent enough company overall, but they need to have their feet held to the fire. And that's what you're doing.Thanks.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I do intend to remain part of this and the other forums long after this problem is resolved in whatever manner Laguna Tools sees fit to settle it in.
I fully intend to have full disclosure here so that everyone will know exactly what happened and how it we got to that point. I'm doing my very best to maintain all coorespondence I have with the folks over at Laguna and would be happy to share that with anyone.
This definately has been a learning experience for me, even if it has been a very difficult one. I too do not care for a one sided conversation, and wonder how I become the red headed step child in this ( my appoligies to anyone who is a red head, or a step child)
I'm definately learning that a lot more research and a lot more questions should have been asked before "signing on the dotted line". The biggest question should have been does this machine come with an assembly manual and can I recieve a copy of it prior to purchase, as well as does it come with a shipping list and may I recieve a copy of that. Most if not all of the things which are causing the major problems here are question I would never have thought I should have to ask UP Front in a purchase like this, but I assure you I will in the future.
Again I do appreciate ALL of your input in helping me to resolve this. Many Thanks,
James
James,
I have an X-31 (and frankly, I really like it). I came over from the x-31 yahoo group to see what the fuss was over here. I have three comments.
First, your comments about the sliding table miter fence made me go to the LT site to look at the pic. My sliding table setup, though it is the older 'green machine' X-31, looks exactly the same as the one pictured there, and to my knowledge, is standard for the whole line. The workpiece hold down cam clamp and the aluminum miter fence both attach to an iron bar that attaches to the sliding table. There is an option for a larger sliding table (I have both, and generall prefer the smaller one FWIW). I think it works quite well. Can you post a pic of what they sent you? It sounds different.
Second, I bought my older x-31 very well used with a whole bunch of missing parts, and so have had numerous experiences with their parts and service staff. I have had good experiences and some not so good experiences trying to get the proper part. On the whole, I 'd rate it 'OK'. You are correct that the supplied 'owners manual' and parts list is pretty weak (I downloaded mine from Laguna). However, there are several internet groups (as there are with any such product) that provided me with priceless insights into the tool. I must say in support of the x-31 that my unit, despite its age, does exactly what it is supposed to do, and has not had any problems for years.
I have one last comment: I'd venture to guess that many of the readers here have never used an x-31, or dealt with the Laguna company at all. Your comments may lead them to believe that this is a bad product, and that it should be avoided. That is patently unfair, and does a disservice to the many woodworkers who might benefit from using the X-31.
Please do post a picture of the offending sliding miter fence, if possible. I am now very curious about it.
Pleeeeease don't call me a plant, or beat me up, guys. This is just my humble opinion.
Respectfully Yours,
Mike
James, I see your problems and those of several other known posters as valid complaints that this guy is making light of and that looks like a serious attempt at damage control. If I take off my amature wood butcher in retirement hat and put back on my hard nosed three piece suit from 6 ave in NYC, I would GUESS an attempt at "in confusion there is profit " thus confuse the issues and down play the boozos that complain. Perhaps the tactic of a minor PR firm, brought in by the big guy to repair the damage done when the dragon lady peed on her shoes in her responses. Peace brother, lets hope that they provide what is due --soon. Pat
James,
Well said. You are a gentleman and scholar.
Lee
Who cares if or if not a guy is a plant. Or if he is a plant for mini-max or laguna. I never take one persons word on anything. I never buy before test driving. I think we all could agree that there is someone out there that has had bad dealings with any company out there. And that there are just as many if not more that have had good dealing with them as well. Just my 2 cents on the subject.Kaleo http://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
This is a power we never had before the internet, if we have a problem with a company or a tool or whatever we can voice it to a very vast audience.
We should however, like any power, use it wisely at the risk of loosing credibility at the very least.C.
Citrouille,
Amen.
Alan - planesaw
This is not necessarily directed to you.....but, Yag... you it ;~)
I will first state that I have never owned a Luguna machine but have, in the past, seeked out their products when purchasing machinery( slider, 21-23 spindle boring, edgebander, vert. panel saw, shapers, etc.) It was very easy to research their products since I live less than an hour from thier Laguna Beach sales office( since then, I think they have moved from there, maybe not)
Your comment is accurate as to "testing" out the machines prior to making your decision. Unfortunitly, these machines are probably the cream of the crop and their are no problems that haven't been addressed prior to going on the sales floor or to you local woodworking show. Just like any other make/brand.
But, I think that you have forgotten another part of the equation. That is, how does the company handle issues after the sale in damaged goods or other customer service problems. This seems to be where their problem is. To me and others, this is more important than a feature or two that is better than the competitors machine. It does no good having a machine that will not run correctly, if at all. Machines don't make you money if they don't work correctly
Another thing that has probly kept me from taking the plunge with this company is the sales people
As a side note, I purchased a EMA CS1200 sliding table saw over 15 years ago. This was a "nice" piece of machinery, for the price and capabilities. But it was not perfect and very hard to keep in adjustment( only had one trunnion which made run out and keeping the blade parallel to the fence difficult) and would not let anybody else adjust it(even cranking the blade to 45*) To this date(a friend of mine now has)it still runs, even though it have parts machined for it from daily use. It still has the same problems. It's a love/hate relationship with that saw.
If someone had told me some of it's problems, I might not have purchased it. At that time it seemed to be the only sliding table saw that would take a datto set, which was what I needed in a saw. Oh yeah, money was a issue, too
This is what these discussions are for.. educating yourself before making informed purchase(hopefully)
I just had a chance to catch-up on this thread. The Robland group on Yahoo has been helping James. By the way, I didn't mention it at the time of my original post because it had slipped my mind: I bought my X31 through Bridge City Tools. Now I hope you all understand their quality. I bought the X31 because John thoroughly endorsed it. For its price, it couldn't be beaten.Yes, it was quite a while ago. But the basic machine was the same until very recently.
Just wanted to keep everyone up to date on things and close this out before the new year.
Laguna Tools did send out a Tech at their cost to repair the blade run out on the machine.
Laguna Tools did send all the missing items from the original shipment as well as providing me at no charge some replacement bushings for the start switch.
After the service work and all the issues with the X31, I didn't have the confidence in the machine or the service department to continue using the machine. I did some more research and finally decided to purchase a new MiniMax CU300 smart, which was delivered this past month. It arrived in excellent condition with all its parts. I had it set up and operating smoothly in a few hours. I was extremely impressed with the sales and customer support people at MiniMax.
I hope everyone has a Safe and Productive New Year.
t4,
Your positive experience was at least 7 years ago. You said the 90s. Things change.
You continue to miss the point you are being given -- and that is James is not the only one. There are just too many threads and post on Knots, and other sites, with the same story about Laguna. It is great you had good customer service. But that was seven years ago. Maybe they were good then, maybe you just happen to get a really competent person.
I would bet you dollars to donuts had James gotten a reply like, "Wow James, we will take care of your problem, we'll get that setup instruction manual right out to you. Once you receive it, let us know the specific parts that are missing and we'll get those to you quickly. And, that mitre guide -- what you saw on the website is what you should have received. We'll get you the correct one. Thanks for bringing this to our attention."
James would have saved a year of frustration and wouldn't have needed to post here to try to get it resolved.
If James was a plant for the competition, it clearly would not have made a difference. There have been too many people who have joined in the chorus. Are they ALL plants? Do we have a conspiracy here?
If someone on here complained about Lee Valley you would bet there would be people telling many positive stories. You are the only one for Laguna compared to not just James' thread, but many other threads over the past several years, with many negative complaints.
Look at Grizzly threads on here. You will find many more positives than negatives, but you find both. Generally the positives win out for most people.
As someone else mentioned, there are several company owners who read Knots. Clark and Williams, planemakers, are on here routinely, and talk with customers. Lee Valley also. Probably quite a number I don't know about.
Based on the numbers, Laguna clearly has a problem. You didn't, that's great.
Alan - planesaw
New to this group though a semi-long time active member of the Yahoo Robland X-31 group as well as rec.woodworking and a relatively recent participant in rec.crafts.woodturning. You can google news groups / author / charlie b to verify the usenet part of this in case anyone thinks I'm a Laguna Tools "plant". (Are we getting that suspicious these days?).I've had my Robland X-31 since late '99 and also own a Laguna Tools 16SEC - made by Meber, another Italian machine maker in the Aggazzinni (sp?) range. I also have the LT cermaic blade guides installed on the LT16SEC bought at a good wooworking introductory show price.I HAVE NO VESTED INTEREST IN LAGUNA TOOLS OR ROBLAND - PERIOD. I HAVE NEVER RECEIVED ANY BRIBES, PAYCHECKS, FREEBIES OR SPECIAL DISCOUNTS FROM LT (OK, I did get the LT16SEC for $1,100 total including shop floor delivery - but that was in compensation for three months of fun and games with dinged parts I got with my new Robland X31)With that out of the way - JustJames posted his problems with LT to the Yahoo Robland X31 group and what follows is most of my reponse to him.
======== Euro machine manufacturers assume, perhaps for good reason, that the euro buyer knows that machines out of the box are seldom set up perfectly and that their customers have some experience with checking and fine tuning settings on their machines, especially table saws - with or without sliding table. They also assume that the buyer knows what's important and what's not. Orange peel paint, dings in the paint, corners that don't look like the finish on a fine piece of furniture have no affect on how well the tool / machine does what it's supposed to do.
In the U.S. market shiny and pretty is often thought to indicate quality to customers buying their first set of prosumer stationary tools after watching Norm and getting by with entry level equiptment - bench top or contractor 1 to 1 1/2 hp table saw, 4 or 6” joiner and maybe a bench top planer - the under $1K machines. The U.S. customer often seems to assume that when they upgrade and in the case of some new X31 (or Felder or Hammer or Mini-Max or Rojek) owners that since they’re paying $6K for a combi, or $1600 or more for a bandsaw, that they're buying a "turn key" system - uncrate it, plug it in and start making fine furniture. The higher the price tag on the machine it seems the greater the expectation that it will produce finer furniture - almost effortlessly - right out of the box. Frequently they don’t have a machinist square, a good 2’ - 4’ straight edge or a dial gauge, so if the machine’s set ups are close enough to not being dangerous and produce adequate results they’re happy campers - unaware of what fine tuning - or at least checking the set ups - can do in terms of results. I say this because I WAS one of those types of newbies, and not that long ago. In addition to the consumers expectations - and often lack of knowledge, skills and experience, the U.S. market is a small part of Roblands business, as is the X31 to Laguna Tools. LT sells mainly to pro shops so the X31is at the lower end of their product lines - and profits. Felder, on the other end of the price and quality range for combis probably has better customer service but for the $11K-$16K price difference they can afford to provide customer service second only to Rolls Royce - and Felder might argue that ranking.LT had some rocky times ( can go into a lot more detail if anyone’s interested - opened east coast site in NJ to serve the east coast right about the time there was a big dock strike, then 911, switching over their computer system, moving from Laguna Beach to Irvine, their marketing director leaving to start Mini-Max USA and taking some of the more experienced tehc support folks with him, several having since returned to LT, etc.) .When it comes to owners manuals,LT is basically stuck with what Robland provides - which is mainlya parts list with exploded diagrams for their entire “X” line. The recycled paper Users Manual LT put together was an attempt to fill in the missing info, albeit a pretty primitive one - done by LTs tech support folks who clearly are not techinical writers.In an attempt to fill in some of the blanks, LT had, and I think has again - a web based forum for combination machines. I periodically post the url to the Draft Set Up Instructions I put together with a lot of help from other members of the Yahoo Robland X-31 group and watching Robland employees set up 6 euro versions of the X31 (Yes, I made the pilgrimage to Brugge Belgium to visit the Robland factory. Here's that url if you’re interested in those instructions. Not anywhere as complete as the Felder groups version - plenty of photos, illustrations etc. , written by folks with technical writing and publishing skills. It’s $65 or $75 but worth every penny and fills in a lot of what even Felder failed to provide. (all one line so watch the line wrap)http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/X31SetUpInstructions/X31SetUpInstructions0.htmlAnd you might go here and scroll down to the X31 stuff. Ray's mortising table jig may be of interest. It can also be used on a Felder or Min-Max
as well as the MultiRouter or even a “normal” mortising machine.http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/AlternateMainMenu.htmlJames found the Yahoo Robland X31 group so he’s got about 400 members, one of whom should be able to answer his technical questions - but that will require more specific info and maybe some photos to be of assistance. As is often the case, the more one does to help the people one need help from the faster one will get it. As for parts, well that’s the problem with going with a Single Source, be it Robland, Felder, Mini-Max or Rojek. But users groups can usually help you out on non-major things like warped tables, broken trunions, fried motor and the like.Anyway - I like my X31 and I like my LT 16SEC - the ceramic guides work well but as someone else noted, getting to set screws that aren't all that accessible is a PITA and would be significant if I changed bandsaw bands daily.My 2 cents worth.charlie bhope I didn't break any group rules by posting the urls.
This is great, information and discussion rather than name calling and innuendo
Jack
Education, n.: That which discloses to the wise and disguises from the foolish their lack of understanding.Ambrose Bierce(1842-1913)
Want to say that CharlieB's posting and links have helped out with some of the issues I've had in the past year. He is correct, don't blame the machine, for the most part its VERY well made, it just needs the manufacturer and its distributor to work together to develop a more detailed shipping list for the American market, as well as a detailed assembly manual.
I do still have some questions I hope Charlie can answer for me, and I'm still working on getting some good photographs together. There are some pieces that were shipped with my machine I have no idea what or where they go, and can't find them on any diagram included with my machine. Also working on trying to identify all the missing parts, so that I can finally assemble the machine and all its components. Put in a full 12 hours today running upstairs to the computer, checking his website photos, and back downstairs to see how well things match up. Unfortunately his machine is a little older than mine and there are some differences in them, so we'll see how it goes.
The yahoo group has been a great find, only wished I would have found it sooner.
Charlie should receive BEST X31 Owner award for all his work developing his techniques for setting up the machine.
e-mail me your phone number and best time to call. Much faster answering questions interactively than swapping e-mail messages.I'm guessing that you've got the Knapp type rip fence and separate joiner fence. If so, I'm betting that some of the parts you can't figure out what to do with go with the joiner fence - the back brace/support and the bolts with knobs and a metal thing on them which go into the saw/shaper table and hold the brace/bracket in place.And assuming you're not in YouBetchaStan, I can probably loan you a pair of the rail jigs - you pay the return postage. Did I mention the deposit? You do have a deed to your home and own it free and clear right?e-mail address is[email protected]yes, there are two coms but a period/dot
between them.charlie b
I want to thank you for the professional way you handled your original posting and not getting drawn into a "food Fight" with some of the people over this issue. If I had been in your place I doubt that I could have remained as calm as you seen to have. I'm very happy to see that you are receiving some help even if it's not directly from the company to get your problem resolved
I had been considering purchasing a Knapp series machine and fortunately had access to some owners with prior experience with the company. The machinery looks great and I am sure most people are very satisfied. Ultimately I was not willing to take the chance as your is not the only negative customer service comment I received. The machine had many features that I was looking for and I agonized over the decision not to purchase. Being able to read your post and the associated replies has made me feel much better with my decision.
Good luck with getting your machine working properly and I'm sure you'll be very happy with it
I did not need to join a special forum to learn how to make my (European) (Italian) Agazzani B20 work. It came well-packed without paint dings, everything put together in working order and ready to slide a blade on because it was pretested by the vendor Eagle Tools). LT can do the same thing. They can care and show it! It is up to the American vendor/ distributor to make his product ready for an American customer if they want to compete without all these complaints.
T4wood,
I think Rennie is being very very gentle in his disbelief of the sincerity of your post. If you are genuine and you have had good service from Laguna is good to hear.
But I don't think so. You have spent the majority of your message critical of "one very vocal customer." Why? Why have you ignored the large volume of similar posts?
Why do you ask, "Does he want his machine to be an orphan by trying to put the company out of business??" Why do you even suggest such a possibility? If Laguna is as good as you say, his is an isolated, extreme complaint that will have no effect on anyone. Don't you think?
No, I will not be as kind as Rennie. I think you are a plant. How pathetic!
Rich
I'll have to echo Rennie's comments. Your just joining Knots today is highly suspect, further supported by your negative comments about James' and not anyone elses comments.
There is no way that any one person, Jame's or anyone else, can put a company out of business by a post on Knots. Laguna, as any other company, will succeed or fail by what IT does, not what one customer says.
Laguna's post here on Knots failed miserably. No where did she say that Laguna would either fix the problem or refund James' money. That is all it would have taken to address the issue. She simply complained about him and told him to put it in writing.
It appears to me she did more damage to Laguna's customer service than James has done. Had her post said, "we'll fix it, whatever it takes," would have solved the problem.
Lee Valley wrote me 6 months after I bought a product from them and told me they discovered the manufacturer had made a mistake; and that if I would return the product -- at their expense -- they would replace it with the proper item. Now that's service. I, as the customer, didn't even have to ask. They took responsibility.
If Laguna, and others, would operate like that, customer service would have a positive ring to it.
Alan - planesaw
Edited 9/8/2006 6:55 pm ET by Planesaw
PLANT !
T4wood, see my postings #'s 5, 15, & 58. Poor customer service. You were lucky,bro and I support your'e right 110% to express your dealings with Laguna, but generaaly speaking a man should look at the majority of responses and understand that a lot of woodworkers have been treated with absolutely no respect for thier dollars by a company that advertises quality and craftmanship as a mainstay. Tactically, if you look at this response by this number of workers, all a man has to do is read between the lines to ponder if something is not really wrong. There is a certain anxiety that this response will initiate pressure by Laguna( as a advertiser)to have this topic removed. My perspective, if such a situation occurs, is that it re-enforces the resentment of fellow workers and that Laguna will not deal with its failures as part of thier bussiness strategy because they know that many of thier products are defective and dealing with these problems would highlight the nature of thier strategy that in my experience and dealings with them causes me to wonder if it is one of high-volume purchase of poorly manufactured machines sold at a profit to unsuspecting workers beguiled by thier slick advertisements.???????????-bufun
What I find rather interesting is that I have read so many postings about one single company yet I have to read such things about companies lie Delta, Oliver and General. I have bought three General machines and have not had one single problem with any of them or the distributors I bought them from. I own two Oliver machines and they have been going for over 50 years.
I would rather pay 10 dollars for a used can opener which works and will last me the rest of my life than pay 50 cents for a new one and have it fall apart in a short time because eventually I will either have to buy another can opener, get it repaired or buy the better product I should have bought in the first place.
When the sweetness of price is long forgotten service is long remembered.
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