I freely admit I is a rabid tool junky.
I tried a 10 step programme, but it just didn’t take.
I also like exquisitely simple alternative solutions to mega$ tool purchases.
So, brethern, help me out here.
I got a half house of architectural (sheesh) built-ins and book cases to assemble, and the only way I can see to perserve the aesthetic is to use the Lamello Invis system .
The first time I saw this I said “the poor bugger who has to dissassemble this stuff” and thought further “a lot of folks ain’t even aware that this exists”
Now, I’m seriously looking at it for this assembly-it’s floor to ceiling, second floor stuff, so even if it was preassembled, you couldn’t get it in, and as it’s a reno, there’s bound to be scribing on the details, so it’s gotta be able to be taken apart, scribed, set in, etc. Buncha other reasons as well, but in order to make a long story short (too late, I know) the Invis system is looking good to me……If only it didn’t cost so gosh-dang much.
Each fastener is looking like 9$ish Cdn. (maybe 7-8ish us$) and the tools for installation and manipulation ain’t gonna be cheap either.
I’ve searched looked for other low-visibility KD fittings in my euro-hdwr catalogues, but nothing comes close to to invisibility like this stuff. Even the KD biscuits won’t work. But if I knew it all, I wouldn’t be askin for advice.
I’d like to query the FWW illuminati for advice……-
if you have one, is it as exquisite as lamello claims?
Does it simplify, or merely transfer complexity of construction to another area of concern?
Do your customers care that this system was used , and if they do, were prone to comment favourabily?
How do you deal with the guilt feelings for the poor bugger who has to figure out how these things are held together?
Is there any other less expensive, maybe a knock-off that you are aware of, or an alternative perhaps by another mfgr? methinks this stuff is patented, but who knows nowadays.
If you spent the bucks to go with the invis system, didya find yerself kickin yer butt when someone else suggested a cheaper less complex system to go with?
What was it?
I got til thursday.
Thanks
Cowtown Eric
Thursday, the salesman comes for the demo, and if possible
Replies
You should stick with the 12 step program, Eric. You've got it bad and nothing any of us say will change your desire to satisfy your addiction. It is a pretty cool looking rig, definitely new tech and you would be the first on your block to own one. I can imagine the look on your customers face when you fire that dandy up, abracadabra! The tool will be the talk of every cocktail and dinner party for a long time. It could be that your talents will take a backseat to the device, though.
Let's try a little rationality, just for fun. The gizmo costs $900 +- , for crying out loud, and that doesn't include fasteners! Who's going to pay for this? Cabinetmakers usually have a hard enough time making any money, this is going to take a chunk out of your profits on this job. Is this the only way you can figure out how to solve the moving and installing issues? How did we ever face those situations before the Invis? How many similar projects are on the horizon?
We have all worked with nuts and bolts. Any problems with debris or alignment and they don't work. I would think that boring the holes accurately will be the big issue. Will something like a doweling jig be accurate and adaptable enough or will you need a horizontal boring machine, maybe a multi head one? Not to temp your addiction or anything.
I think the Invis system is a neat gadget. For projects that will be set up and taken down, it may be a viable option. As a replacement for joinery, probably not. I'd ask for a 30 free trial and put it through it's paces. That way you will know if additional tooling is needed and if there are any little quirks in using the system. It's a bit too expensive to sit on the shelf. Give us a report on the sales demo, but try to be strong, Cowtown.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hey, that's what my wife says too.....
The Entry point ain't anywhere near the 900 bucks mentioned. More like 300 and change, but that won't get you alignment jigs. Word has it that Lamello is changing their packaging, as the CNC folks don't need alignment jigs, so maybe I'll get lucky pricewise.
And no, I won't be the first guy on the block to go this route. There are already others in the balliwick who are using this system. But maybe this INVIS stuff will never achieve the popularity of then massive motorized planes of the 70's. ?remember them? Seen any lately?
I will try to keep my tool-lust in check; most certainly my resolve to do so strengthened by the fact that none of the other tool afficianados here made the plunge (or will admit to it).
Thanks folks.
Eric
Golly, when you end up replying to yer own posts, you just gotta figure that something is askew. I checked the Tools issue offerings of the tauntonia "x-purts" and lamello wasn't in the index. That should tell me something- at least about the value of the advertising buck.
So the fella turned up today, and I mispoke. The entry level for the magnetic actuator on it's own - the significant device- is actually around 160ish. This is the crux of the system, at least it will let you take apart the suckers. It fits on a drill.
And ya, the price for the various configurations of probably required accesories does ramp up to around the 1300$ mark, but Lamello is apparently changing their marketing configuration, so you can buy the cordless drill (yers) mounted actuator for the 160$, make yer own boring jigs, and buy the insert tools seperately at 45bucks a pop ( two required for each size -either 8 or 12 mm) use yer own metric brad point drills, and if you wanna be into it , you could be into using one size for about 250 CDN$, or around just over 200 us$ methinks.
A bunch of this alignment goodies is gonna be stuff any competent dowel user is gonna be familiar with anyway, and similar to what any experienced Woodbutcherator has likely cobbled up in the past for dowels, although their self centering jig was really clever, once you see it you could very well cobble up yer own. And in the application I ended up with on these constructs, the insertion alignment jibs were not usable, ergo, I'd be makin my own anyway.
Alas, the blister packs for the actual fasteners are still gonna cost ya 9 bucks CDN, 7-ish us$ methinks. EACH. A really good and long screw would cost you a lot less.
So, Simon, the salesman, well this fella is actually gonna let me play with the 1200$ system for a cuppla weeks, on a cost of fasteners actually plus 10% basis. Try to get that from Home Despot eh!
That's it for this evening folks.
Eric in Cowtwon
"I got a half house of architectural (sheesh) built-ins and book cases to assemble, and the only way I can see to perserve the aesthetic is to use the Lamello Invis system ."
First of all I've seen the thing with my own two eyes and played around with it. It is one of those "WOW! Cool" gadgets. The downside is the expense of the thing and the hardware. Besides which, unless you need to build stuff for repeated assemble/knockdown usage, the Invis really is unnecessary.
I disagree with your premise that to preserve the "aesthetic" one must resort to the Invis. There is a world of cabinetry out there that's aesthetically pleasing w/o Invis joinery.
Edited 2/7/2006 6:58 pm ET by Spike2
I have seen the demo on the Invis at the IWF and it is an impressive system. Some very good ingenuity went into the design. The cost of the tool kit was a bit on the high side but the on-going costs associated with the fasteners was just way too much to swallow for me. However, I can see its advantages in some applications. If I were building staircases or other large items in the shop that needed to be disassembled and re-built at the site, I think this would be a good device. This is particularly true if you don't want your client to be able to disassemble the item.
That said, the Invis is basically no more than a dowel joint. Because of this, if the Invis would work, it seems as if a simple dowel joint would do the same thing for a whole lot less $.
Steve
I used to be involved in trade shows, and it sure seems like this would be a cool system for building trade show displays and fixtures. No exposed hardware, looks like built-ins, very nice. The cost would not be much of a factor compared to the benefits.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
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