Replies

1. 
   brad805 | Apr 01, 2009 09:41pm | #1

   I asked a very similar question on the woodweb before laminating my stair stringers.  They all said use good ol PVA (TBII).  Thats what I used for the stringers and treads.

   I did try splines on one tread, but I skipped that on all the rest.  Pay attention when you clamp em up, and you will not end up removing much during final sizing.  The planer or scraper will remove you glue issues and then you get to sand them.

   Before anyone suggests I have a problem with the open tread design I thought I would mention that I am aware of the 4" sphere rule, and have investigated this.  Its all good.

   Brad

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1. 
   cut50 | Apr 02, 2009 01:01am | #2

   Thanks for the pointers.

   So are those inlays on yours treads?

   Good point about the 4" sphere, never heard came up about open stairs. There are many thousands of them, google images....man!

   Have same B.day so Happy Birth Day

   Ed

1. 
   brad805 | Apr 02, 2009 01:26am | #3

   Yup those are some tigerwood inlays I did.  They were not too bad to do.  The only problem I found was the Jatoba colors change quite a bit and the tigerwood does too.  I ended up with a few where the inlay almost disappear. 

   The open tread idea is debated frequently.

   Thks for the bday wish.  back at ya.

   Brad

2. 
   integrity_woodworks | Apr 21, 2009 09:56pm | #5

   brad , sorry but i must know what you mean by, you investigated and it is all good? I am in Vancouver and the only way that mite pass is if an engineer signed off on them ,especially with no side rail protection. Please do not gat me wrong I really like them I just have to ask.

   Dan

1. 
   brad805 | Apr 21, 2009 10:30pm | #6

   Truth be told the BI gave me an occupancy permit with a ratty set of construction stairs and I didnt ask or expect to get that.  Some of the small town inspectors are pretty leniant, and some of the big city ones have a stick so far up their... they feel they are god when it comes to the code.   The BC code does not yet have a specific exclusion for an open tread design in a residence, but it does specifically exclude this in a Part 3 bldg.  The specific BC definition regarding the 4"sphere discusses only the pickets, and does not extend to the treads themselves.  Logically, most apply that rule to the treads, but there have been appeals where the BI ruling for a solid back have been overturned.  I suspect future codes will changes this.  I did contemplate adding some small pickets between treads or another solution is to add a stiffener to the underside of the tread to reduce the space to 4".   The stiffener looked awful, and the pickets would have been quite a bit more work. 

   The railing was not in place at the time of the photo.   I just put the final part of the railing on last night and will add some photos soon.  If you want to see some whopper stairs, look at some of those in the UK.  I found a few that even I would not want to use.  Very very thin cantilever stairs without any railings.   Most of the really dangerous ones appear to be from lofts.  I am not sure about the UK codes, but I am pretty sure some of the ones I found were added after inspection time.

   Brad

   Edited 4/21/2009 3:31 pm ET by brad805

1. 
   integrity_woodworks | Apr 21, 2009 11:16pm | #7

   Hey brad . stick? I would say a log most times lol, and most of the new ones are so green you want to put them in the window to ripen! I have no problem with your stairs what so ever, just wondering. But I do know that in West Vancouver (where the truly God like people live)and here on the other side of the water there indeed is a code for open tread stairs which is 4" unless the tread is deeper then 12" ,but really it is completely up to the Gods you mentioned ,who more often then not have NO building experience and just took a six week coarse , no wonder they think there god like.

   I try to design my open tread stairs to have as small of a space between /because of the look, and to make them safer for my clients/my piece of mind. Can not stand most of minimum code . I have had so many arguments with those... where I say its a Province wide code! and they say not here,but someone is doing the same thing as us three blocks away with no problem.So I had to ask.

   Once again nice job. don't know if you saw the stairs I posted ,but in both cases the inspector did not even know how to measure them for rise and run.

   Good day Dan

1. 
   brad805 | Apr 21, 2009 11:42pm | #8

   I will take a look for your stairs.  I have not seen them yet.  Here is a pic of my stairs with the railings.  Now I get to finish the darn things.  I need to add a couple nosings and some flooring to the landing too.  I didnt purchase anything but rough lumber for the entire project.  It turned out to be a bit more than I thought.

   I bet North Van has some of their own specific bylaws.  I know Vancouver sure does. They can inact specific bylaws far quicker and with less scrutiny.  I live in Northern BC, but I do work in my field in the South quite often.  Just be thankful you are not in CA.  Its even worse from everything I have read. 

   Brad 

    

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   Edited 4/21/2009 4:43 pm ET by brad805

   Edited 4/21/2009 4:46 pm ET by brad805

   
2. 
   integrity_woodworks | Apr 22, 2009 02:32am | #9

   brad, you do not have to look far I posted the pics on this post just before I wrote to you, but one stair case is in the gallery as well. I start every job with rough lumber ,except the 2900 lb free standing stairs in the gallery /my first substrate job.

   again nice job I have so many pics but they are photos,I have only had a computer and digital camera for a couple years,could not figure out where the cutters go,and my scanner is not working.I think I have built about 100 sets of stairs and 20 or so of those having no risers,also I have milled 100s of sets of stairs to be installed by on site builders.so theses pics where easy to get to ,and the out door set are the first exterior set I have done.

   have fun with that finishing! I am finishing a set of four fir cases I built in walnut stain starting tomorrow. I wish I was in the interior instead of the city but looks like it will be a couple more years when my daughter goes to university. Salmon arm is my goal.

   Dan

3. 
   brad805 | Apr 22, 2009 03:16am | #10

   Well dont I feel like the village idiot:)  I really like the look of your stairs.  How was finishing the engineered lumber?  I have to admit the thick tread looks far better when complete than in my little mockups. 

   You have been doing this for a while.  I am sorry for ranting on.  I am guessing you work on fairly exclusive homes?  Stair building is great fun, but wow is a custom set ever time consuming.  What would a custom set of stairs and railings start at?  $15k+?  In my area the focus is always bigger.  All that does is kill the nice details and makes a home characterless.  Well, unless budget is not an issue (ha!ha!).

   It would be a kick to see some of your work sometime when I am in the van area.

   Brad  

   Edited 4/21/2009 8:17 pm ET by brad805

4. 
   integrity_woodworks | Jul 23, 2009 11:54am | #21

   Hey Brad ,it has been a while thought I would check and see if you managed to finish those stairs off, sure you did just thought it would be cool to see some finished photos if you have any? Dan

5. 
   brad805 | Jul 23, 2009 07:30pm | #22

   I have not finished all the flooring or the closet doors so I still have a few odds and ends to finish.  I did post a completed stair pic in the gallery.  Oops, that was on the fine homebuilding site.  Here are a couple.  My hardware is in for the closets, so I guess I will have to get on that project too. 

   Hows are things going in Vancouver?

   <!----><!----><!---->

   Brad

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   Edited 7/23/2009 12:31 pm ET by brad805

   
6. 
   integrity_woodworks | Jul 23, 2009 07:49pm | #23

   Wow it is coming alone nicely! I am sure once that floor goes in should be an eye popper thanks for throwing up a pic .Things in Van are okay basic construction is still moving , renovation work is still trucking along no real custom work happening though, gives me some extra time to work on the shop.heading to Jasper to do some climbing so can't complain ,well hope things are good for you up North there.Dan

2. 
   integrity_woodworks | Apr 21, 2009 09:49pm | #4

   cut50, pva glue is fine , and no splines are required .please put up a pic when done ,Beefy good. here's some of mine,the fir ones are 2/3/4" treads ,the other are 4" treads /6" stringers. they both incorporate a 7/1/4" rise and a 10/3/8 run, yet one has a 14" tread ,the other (fir one) a 16" tread . meaning the space between treads is 4/1/4" on the fir set /and 3/3/4" on the other.they passed inspection with flying colours. 

   Dan

   
1. 
   cut50 | Apr 22, 2009 07:02pm | #11

   Thanx Dan, but it`s to late, splines are in.Used some recycled fir from a water tank,started at 3" but all I could get was 2", due to some dry rot.As to the code and 4" sphere. I think that all came from baby cribs many years ago.Sadly my BIL cut off his air for awhile till his mother got there and broke the spindle out. He`s ok, has job and drives car, but just not all there.So if you think about spindles and how the 4" space works,to me it just does not apply to treads. If the little guy can climb stairs he is to big to get though that space between the treads. Or same stairs with risers and the little guy is almost to the top and spins out, all the way to the bottom.My point is that a baby can strangle itself between spindles and not between treads. The 4" is to stop the head,not the body. A 5" space will not stop the head but it will still stop the body.
   (way to much coffeeee)So to put this in the code would be dumb! IMOI`ve seen and had to work with many code changes over the years.And must say some are just plain stupid, and put in by someone who has never worked in the trade.We`ve had a few gov-gods here,but after awhile they settle down and become real people.That`s one of the benefits of a small town. I grew up in N Van, left in 77 and never turned back.Very nice stairs, you should be proud

1. 
   integrity_woodworks | Apr 24, 2009 03:18am | #12

   cut50, that is to bad about your BIL,glad he survived! I agree with you and my rule of thumb with spindles is 3,1/2". Thanx for the complement ,and I hope your stairs turn out the way you envision them.I am sure they will.

   Dan

1. 
   cut50 | Apr 26, 2009 06:43pm | #13

   I have the vision. But need ideas to fasten treads to stringers.The stringers are 4, 2"x14", So each stringer will be 4x14. They will be set away the wall about 6" and the treads will be 1" away from the wall.Giving a floating look.I do not feel using a PL400 alone will hold treads in the long run.Right now I`am thinking glue with 2 screws per side with plugs.But then you loose the nice look of the fir tread, plus that means plugging,sanding and finishing in place,(pita)The riser cut on the stringer will have a fir cap,so I could get a screw there, but would still need one on the back side.Hoping you have an idea I missed. Thank you much Silly question I`am sure but when ever I post it has "reply delete edit on the bottom and everyone else does not?????? (rookie???)Thanx again Ed

1. 
   saschafer | Apr 26, 2009 07:10pm | #14

   "Silly question I`am sure but when ever I post it has reply delete edit on the bottom and everyone else does not??????"

   You are allowed to edit and delete your own messages, so you'll see all three options on messages that you've posted, and only Reply on other messages.

   -Steve

2. 
   cut50 | Apr 26, 2009 07:24pm | #15

   Thanx Steve, It`s nice to know you`re doing nothing wrong when you don`t know what you`re doing.lol

3. 
   integrity_woodworks | Apr 26, 2009 11:42pm | #16

   cut50, I am a bit slow today ,think I need a bit of time ,but I will get back to you soon. I do agree about the PL400 ,and my favorite would be PL Premium ,which is considerably stronger then 400.

   Dan

4. 
   integrity_woodworks | Apr 27, 2009 10:43am | #17

   cut50, so is this an open rise then?also are you planing on assembling the unit down ,and then hanging it once the treads are attached? if so you should be able to screw on an angle threw the stringers as well as at the front where you mentioned? About that can I ask why you are attaching a fir cap to the stringer?

   as for screw placement, I would likely try for a #12 screw on each side of the stringer front and back .

   Dan

5. 
   cut50 | Apr 27, 2009 04:59pm | #18

   Dan, Yes it`s an open rise,due to some heating issues and I just like them. The stringers are 4x14`s a bit heavy, so I was planning doing it in place. The cap is to hide the end cut grain of the pine stringers.While reading your reply and doing another head photo, out of the 2 choices the going up is better than going down for screws.#12`s, yes! I thought of the old stand by #8, #12`s would be much better. Being a carpenter and working on my own unfinished house I always try for the little extras.So when friends,other carpenters and DW do there inspection it will pass.Thanx Again.....spring at last!!Ed

2. 
   cut50 | May 15, 2009 04:08pm | #19

   Dan. Well at last I don`t need a ladder to get to my computer.The vision came to past for me.As Brad said "It turned out to be a bit more than I thought" time wise anyway.Still some more trim to go on.Carpet is next, top of stairs to the left, and that`s where the pool table will be, at long (8yrs)last.Thanx again for your interest.Ed

   
1. 
   integrity_woodworks | May 15, 2009 05:19pm | #20

   Ed ,Nice! very nice thank you for posting some pics ,have not been around knots much lately but last night I checked this thread to see if you had posted any yet. I can see what you meant by tight space.Realy like the beefy stringers!it all looks great sounds like all you need now is the keg fridge to go with the pool table, oh and maybe an dart board?LOL .I am sure it was worth the effort! take care and enjoy.

   Dan