Replies

1. 
   BG | Aug 08, 2002 01:19pm | #1

   I'm a newbie to this sharpening thing like yourself, but I have not experienced the frustration you are having.  Are your chisels Stainless Steel?  I use the paper on glass for the higher grits...400, 1000,2000 but I start out with 100 grit from the rolls with the sticky back and move up to 180.  I just tear off a piece and stick it to the saw table top...and then move the chisel back and forth on the edge of the table.  Not sure what your problem is, I'll be interested in others opinions in this thread. 

2. 
   Alan | Aug 08, 2002 04:41pm | #2

   Wanabe,

   I've never used sandpaper to sharpen my tools, I've always used water stones.  Even so, I can't understand why you're having so much trouble.  What kind of paper are you using?  and what grit?  How much of the back are you trying to lap--the whole thing, or just a little bit behind the edge?  Is there anything unusual about your chisels?

   I begin lapping the backs of my edge tools on my 800 water stone.  The longest I've ever spent on that first stone was recently when I was lapping the back of an A2 steel plane iron that was 2 3/8" wide.  Still, I don't think I spent more than a total of three hours to completely flatten the back and hone the edge.

   Curious, your problem.

   Alan

1. 
   wanabe | Aug 08, 2002 09:16pm | #3

   I am trying to lap the whole back of the chisels.  they are new craftsman chisels.  The back had fine tooling marks, and some low spots.  After much effort all the tooling marks are gone, EXCEPT the font 1/8"...the part I care about.  only four more chisels to go.

1. 
   Ken10thumbs | Aug 09, 2002 01:38am | #4

   Why not lap just the last couple of inches, that is really the only part to be concerned with.  You are lapping the back to provide a perfect "companion" to the bevel edge. Anything less than flat along the sharp edge with result in "teeth" along the cutting edge.

2. 
   jhweeks | Aug 09, 2002 02:00am | #6

   If its just the 1/8" behind the edge that still has tool marks, sounds like the back (more properly called the face) of the chisel was rounded off during manufacturing. When I encounter this I just gring the edge back to where the face (back) is basically flat, then regrind the edge, lap the face, etc.

   I assume when I buy a chisel that I will reshape the edge. No reason to assume the bevel is at the right angle, that the face isn't rounded, the edges are square, etc. Manufacturers produce chisels in shapes that are easiest for them, not best for us.

   John Weeks

3. 
   Alan | Aug 09, 2002 02:30am | #7

   Wanabe,

   As others said, you'll grow old and die trying to lap the entire back of the chisel.  (Others did say that.  Yes?)

   I am surprised, though, that many say to lap an inch or two of the back.  That's way too much work for me (I'm a very lazy sort).

   When I first lap the back of a new edge tool I move the tool in and out over the stone--usually in a long figure eight kind of motion so I can keep the tool moving away from the edge (I believe that reduces the chances of dubbing the edge).  The flat nearest the edge gets the most work, with the amount of metal removed tapering off up away from the edge.  As soon as the tooling marks are erased just in back of the edge, I move on to the next stone--I don't really care what the rest of the back looks like.

   I do the same on each stone.  As soon as a tiny bit next to the edge is done I move on.  I usually wind up with no more than a half inch--and usually less--that is perfectly flat and polished.  The rest of the back is in varying degrees of finish as you move away from the edge.

   I do basically the same thing each time I have to re-sharpen.  Eventually a large part of the back will be flat and polished--but only after many re-sharpening sessions (I'm not talking about the occasional retouching the edge, but major re-shaping of the bevel).

   Or...  I suppose I could save my money and buy Two Cherries chisels.  I understand they come with the entire tool polished to a mirror finish.

   Alan

3. 
   RSRose | Aug 09, 2002 01:44am | #5

   Wanabe,

   Just lap the last 1 to 1-1/2 inches of your chisels. You'll grow old and die before you need to lap more. You'll certainly grow old and die trying to lap the entire back of all your chisels.

   Rich

4. 
   Phil_Twiss | Aug 09, 2002 03:43pm | #8

   I will probably open can of worms here, but what the heck.  Like the rest of the bods who have replied I concur that anything more than an inch or two of lapped back is a waste even if it does look nice (I like it but generally don't have time).  There are a couple of things here:

   1. Buy good chisels they will do several things cheapies won't, not the least of which is stay sharp longer, but they will generally be flatter to start with.  Antique chisels are even better, someone has probably flattened it before as long as some goose hasn't used it as a gardening implement in the meantime.

    2.  If you can afford it, toss the paper (I use it to true plane soles) and get a diamond plate. This has been discussed in length many times before, but form my experience I think they are brilliant.  Unlike water stones, I find I am only having to flatten my blade now, not the stone, they don't quite as fast (only just) but they don't mess up your blade.  Bear in mind that diamond plates bed in so you think they wear out quickly, it seems that way but its only that when new they are more course than they are meant to be.  Oh and they are great to touch up carbide router bits...

   I use my chisels and planes daily and often during the day, so fast effective sharpenings are critical.  In some ways I would love to spend time doing the Japanese zen of blade sharpening(and stone flattening), but I use mirror sharp blades which have a bad habit of opening one up a long time before pain is felt and all this for minutes or even seconds of sharpening.

   I also have a leather strop (piece of charged leather glued to mdf) which I use to whip the wire edge off and final polish the blade.  If you want scary sharp this is it, the next step after stropping in the old days was shaving!

   I hope this helps a little (its my two cents), just bear in mind you are trying to make nice stuff out of wood, not spend your days polishing metal.

   Cheers

   Phil Twiss

1. 
   Biscardi | Aug 10, 2002 04:35am | #9

   Don't get sucked into the cult of sharpening. Run through a reasonable sharpening schedule and use the tool. The next time you'll get closer to were you want it.

    Even if you get it perfect you will need to resharpen it frequently if you are doing heavy work in hard wood.

   The only time I think I ever needed to spend more than twenty minutes sharpening a chisle was when I had to sharpen some that were home made ones made out of old jointer blades- hard stuff.

   Frank

1. 
   Phil_Twiss | Aug 11, 2002 05:16pm | #10

   Don't worry Frank, no danger of that. If I could find tools that sharpened themselves to my liking I would buy them.

   Phil

5. 
   GeeSeaWhy | Aug 12, 2002 09:07am | #11

   I looked up Leonard Lee's Complete Guide to Sharpening. There are before and after photos of a lapped chisel face. If that chisel is an inch wide, the flattened area is no more than a quarter inch front to back. The book also notes that chisels sometimes arrive with the front edge of the face rounded over. His advice is the same as JW's - grind the bevel back to the flat area. Strangely enough, he states that chisels that are polished sometimes show this problem.