Replies

1. 
   Jamie_Buxton | Jan 01, 2003 09:38pm | #1

   As you say, finding walnut lumber that is 12 feet long is difficult.  And to get each piece flat and straight, you're likely to need to start with very thick stock.   I'd build the table with the grain running the short direction, not the long one.  Of course, you'll need to allow the wood to move.   You'll need structures underneath the top that hold it flat, but allow the ends to slide in and out. 

2. 
   ian | Jan 02, 2003 03:02am | #2

   I'd look at veneering.  before you get too far, how will you transport a 12'x 5.5' top from your shop to the client's conference room?   This is probably the design determinate.  If it MUST BE all one piece do a trial run with a full scale ply model top before you start on the main table.    

3. 
   barrysumrall | Jan 02, 2003 04:35am | #3

   getting it to the business and into the room are indeed the first consideration (especially if it is not on the ground floor). If possible investigate a design that might break into two 6' tables.

   Veneer would be a good thing to look at, although an oversized vacuem bag would be required (if you have that capability). If you are roped into the solid lumber route movement shouldn't be an issue so long as your attachments to the base allow for ample expansion and contraction. I'd shy away from laying the boards perpendicular to the table leangth. You'd easily find 6' rough stock, but movement concerns would be huge. Look into Claro walnut as finding wider and longer boards is an easier prospect, or check with one of the specialty wood dealers advertising in the back of trade magazines. Finding longer boards free of sap wood will be tough ( and $$) but shouln't be impossible. Good luck.

1. 
   PlaneWood | Jan 02, 2003 05:29am | #4

   A guy up in Tulsa once built a hughmongus table for a church with a top of solid oak.  Was beautiful and the room where it was to set was on the 1st floor with wide doors they could back right up.  

   But (the gotcha), it was set right under an air conditioning duct.  When winter came and the hot dry air started blowing, the top split right down the middle.  

   Another thought would be to see if you could special order wide (and possibly thicker) plywood with thick walnut veneer.  Make the top in two halves and have solid sides.

   If you must have solid walnut then get quarter sawn with no more than a 10 degree departure of the grain from being perpendicular to the flat of the boards. Probably need to find a saw mill and a kiln operator to get all this set up.  Doubtful you'll find any boards in stock for such an undertaking.  The top will definitely have to be 'floated'.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood

2. 
   beartrap1 | Jan 02, 2003 05:46am | #5

   Thanks Barry for the advise,

   I am not concerened about getting into the building , but rather such long lengths of wood. Running short would certainly help other than the look they are after. I think it is time for an other talk with the customer. Thanks

   Mike

4. 
   johnhardy | Jan 02, 2003 08:53pm | #6

   I saw a table very similar this one being made in my local hardwood dealer ... where they do custom milling as well as sell hardwood. The table was probably 10 feet long, but it could have been 12. The walnut was 8/4, and the table width was made up of, I think, 5 boards that were about 12 inches wide. Each end had a board running perpendicular to the table length, and was about 12 inches wide by 5 feet. The problem I saw was that they biscuited and glued the ends of the table, and that didn't allow for seasonal expansion of the table width. My thought was that the table would split apart within a year.

   If you create a bread-board end, that'd solve the problem above. And if the bread-board ends are about 12 inches wide you'd be able to look for 10 foot boards, not 12 footers, for the table proper. I loved the 8/4 look of the table I saw ... it was massive. If you could get something like this I think it'd work very well, as long as you allow for the ends to move separately.

   By the way, the hardwood guy told me they had to look for the lumber for this table top over a period of many months. Each piece was all heartwood with absolutely no defects. Not an easy find.

   John

1. 
   PlaneWood | Jan 03, 2003 05:18am | #7

   Black Walnut will shrink about 3% between 20% and 6% MC.  So, 60" X .03 = 1.8"

   And the customer said, "But, I said I wanted it to be 60 inches wide?"

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood

5. 
   ScottInMadtown | Jan 06, 2003 08:18pm | #8

   Beartrap,

   You might want to consider a torsion box design.  There is a fantastic artical in FWW #151.  This type of table is quite a bit lighter and also stronger than it would be in solid wood.  A sexy veneer can be applied to the plywood or MDF substrates.  Contrary to what you might hear, you don't need a huge vacuum press or tons of cauls to veneeer.  Get a couple of books on veneering and find one that uses the dried-glue-iron-on method.  Basically you coat both the veneer back and the substrate with thin coats of PVA glue.  Let them dry.  Position the veneer on the substrate and iron it in place.  The heat reactivates the glue and you get "instant" bonding.  This stuff sounds out there, but it's worth a hard look at.

   Scott

1. 
   Kell | Jan 06, 2003 10:12pm | #9

   I used a similar technique a couple of months ago to build a queen size platform bed, very modern, contemporary, for a customer.  He loved it.  Thanks goodness it was lighter this way; it took four of us to carry the thing upstairs!

   Good luck!

   Kell

2. 
   beartrap1 | Jan 08, 2003 05:13pm | #13

   To All of you that responded

   Thanks for all the input from ALL of you. this web site is great. Gives me a few things to consider. My customer is really hung up with solid wood< which I don't blame them. I may consider doing the table in 2  halves.

   beartrap

6. 
   Marcello | Jan 07, 2003 07:46pm | #10

   beartrap,

   You can achieve a solid walnut table in many different ways.  I sketched out a possible type of treatment for a table that size.  It is made up of 3 sections with connecting hardware underneath.  What this does is it brings down the scale to be more user friendly, less intimidating setting.  You can also add another section without compromising the design and it will be easier to transport. 

   I am not sure you can read the attachment very well, but in a nutshell, it has mitered coners and a border surrounding a center piece.  The side mat'l can be 8/4 black walnut, the surround a contrasting wood or quarter sawn walnut, the centerpiece a crotch, burl or figured walnut veneer.  The ends can have rounded curves as well.  Maybe this can be a starting block and you can revise from there -- or not.   Hope it helps.

   Marcello

   
1. 
   TomMGTC | Jan 08, 2003 12:54am | #11

   Mitered corners that wide look to me like they would be very problematic as  expansion and contraction occurs. It would be a good design for veneering but I would be leery of making it from solid wood.

   Tom

   Edited 1/7/2003 5:02:15 PM ET by Tom

1. 
   Marcello | Jan 08, 2003 02:14am | #12

   It was just an idea of possible alternatives.  You are probably right about expansion on the mitered corners, Sgian can tell you in a heartbeat.  What can be done though is have solid edging, 4-6" wide, and do the rest with veneers.  I am getting the feeling that the client wants to see  the entire table top done with solid wood. 

   Marcello

   Edited 1/7/2003 6:15:33 PM ET by TMARCELLO

   Edited 1/7/2003 6:16:08 PM ET by TMARCELLO

7. 
   crt2cu2 | Jan 10, 2003 12:27pm | #14

   bear,

   Just throwing this out to you for your consideration.  Couple months ago I was at a local resort and noticed a large conference table in a meeting room.  The table was built from solid cherry in a trestle style maybe 12 feet long by 4 feet wide.  Beautiful wood cherry is, even in this dilemma situation- End to end the table had warped upwards about four inches!!  Even after some attempts at repair by resort maintenace workers.  Further, the board lengths were oriented to the short dimension!  Resort owners noticed me looking at the table and asked my opinion about repairing the piece, (I disclosed that I was a woodworker thus my interest) mentioning that the person who built the table refused to respond to a call back about their concerns.  After careful perusal of the table I remarked that part of the problem was that the underside of the table was unfinished, the apron was of insufficient dimension and was not allowing for wood movement (screw slots) and that the basic design was flawed in many ways.  After some discussion the owners referred me to their 'house carpenter' who never did contact me regarding my generous offer of free advice.  In retrospect maybe I should have been more self promoting in drumming up work.  But I was on a sort of vacation and trying to umwind and let go of the shop worries...

   To your point though, since I have seen directly how such a large piece can go awry (thankfully not built by me) I urge you to do everything possible to prevent potential tarnishing of your reputation as a woodworker in making such a large piece, even if the customer's wishes differ from reality in the ways wood can move in contrast to our ideals.  Veneers, torsion boxes, floating fasteners, sectional construction, and any/all tricks may be necessary given this design consideration.  Good Luck Friend.

   sawick