Hi,
I’m Kevin, a hobby furniture builder, and this is my first post here.
I’ve the desire to build early American pieces such the pieces by Lonnie Bird.
I’ve seen his work in other magazines and it really appeals to my wife and I. We subscribe to Early American Life magazine if that tells you anything ;^).
Before I branch out with my own designs I’d like to build some pieces from plans. The two I’ve seen in magazines are a good start but I’d like to find some plans for late 18th early 19th century American pieces.
I’ve done several searches on the web and I’m beginning to think there isn’t much.
Can anyone suggest a source?
Thanks
Replies
Hi Kevin,
If you like Lonnie Bird 18th century inspired designs, look no further than Fine WoodWorking.
Lonnie has published two 18th century plans in fairly recent vintage Fine Woodworking. In three issues a few years ago (want to say 2002) there were plans for an 18th century Pennsylvania secretary.. More recently Lonnie published plans for a 18th century grandfather clock (late 2004 or early 2005).
Hope this helps
Edited 10/31/2005 4:20 pm ET by BOBABEUI
The first of Lonnie Bird's 3-article series on building a Pennsylvania secretary was in this issue:
http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/fw_toc_154.aspAnd his 2-part series on building a Pennsylvania Tall Clock was here:
http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/fw_toc_171.aspEnjoy!
Those are two of the articles that got me interested in building that period. I have done Shaker and A+C but that style is what I would like to settle into. There is just so much that looks a feels right about that period of American furniture.
You might look to books - specifically older publications. Browse eBay, used book stores, etc. If you give me a day or two or three, I'll gather a list of the books in my library that fit the bill.
In the meantime, off the top of my lacquer fumed head, I can think of these websites:
http://www.cambiumbooks.com/
http://www.sapfm.org/sapfmmay2003/publications/
http://www.woodweb.com/Resources/RSBookstoreFurnituremaking.html
Regards.
I've built quite a few pieces of reproduction furniture, but only a few have been from plans, and of those I wasn't too impressed with the quality of the plans. I've made the vast majority of my pieces by working from photos of the originals.
My favorite books are.
American Furniture of the 18th Century, by Jeffery P. Greene ISBN1-56158-104-6
This is not a plans book, but a description of how the originals were built, which will let you build without plans. This is the book I started with and still refer to often
Queen Anne Furniture by Norman Vandal ISBN 0-942391-07-1.
This book is also a description of how the originals were built, but has a collection of measured drawings,
Masterpieces of American Furniture by Lester Margon Library of Congress Number 64-8125
This book has many measured drawings.
Also, many museum exhibitions catalogs have excellent descriptions of the joinery and construction details, of pieces in their collection. While I've not used them, and I don't know if they are still available, Carlyle Lynch sold plans, that had a good reputation.
Rob Millard
Rob has given some great advise. Here is another book I like to browse at times. Not a plan book but interesting.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0918804302/qid=1130812826/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-9506878-3949738?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Tom
I have made several pieces starting from the Margon book of plans. Unfortunately, the plans are often very inaccurate. His construction methods often bear little likeness to the original. Some of the changes are made to correct construction details that are not generally accepted today. But he also makes changes that affect the esthetics of the piece without good reason. Sometimes I wonder if he has made any of the pieces. For example, he recommends using 4/4 lumber to turn a 36" diameter table top with a final thickness of more than 3/4". Six quarter is much more realistic.
In my opinion it is very hard to find really good measured drawings. However, several museums--those that don't have programs where they licence furniture makers--will let you make measurements for non-commercial use of pieces in their collections if you make advance arrangements. I've been able to do this at both the Metropolitan Museum of Art and the Museum of Fine Art in Boston. I think the Philadelphia Art Museum will be feasible as well, but Winterthur is not very receptive, nor is Colonial Williamsburg, though I have been able to take up close looks with a curator, and to see items in the collection that are not on display. And, you can have hands on access to the pieces made in the Cabinetmakers shop, which are VERY good reproductions, and the cabinetmakers are very forthcoming with information. (And extraordinarily knowledgeable.) I have heard mixed views about access to the Yale collection. I should explore it since it is close to my home.
It is also possible to use Museum Collection publications to create scaled measurements from photographs. You can be surprisingly accurate if you work as precisely as you can. New England Furniture at Winthur seems like a good book, with more than the usual width, heighth and depth dimensions, and comments on construction. Williamsburg's Southern Furniture expands knowledge about furniture made in the South, and for those interested in NewPort furniture, Michael Moses's New Port cabinet makers has photographs and details of the construction of pieces by the Townsend and Goddard cabinetmakers. Its out of print, but Morrison Hecksher's book from the Metropolitan Museum of Art that details pieces from the Met's recent Townsend show is also interesting.
Thanks everyone for you great responses.
It looks like my Amazon wish list just grew by a factor of 4.
I’m pretty good at figuring out how a piece should go together and have experience in the joinery needed so a lot of the books that have been suggested will provide great inspiration to get busy.
The first project will be a Pencil Post bed in mahogany. After that my wife needs a new dresser and I’m thinking a flat topped high boy in cherry.
Then there’s the shaker tall clock for the living room, a new desk for my office….Damn I wish I didn’t need a day job.
Look for books by Franklin Gottshall. Copies are found in many libraries and and online booksellers. At least at the library you can see if you want to buy the book. The web is good but even better when used with libraries, bookstores and other woodworkers.
http://www.constantines.com/browseproducts/Making-Antique-Furniture-Reproductions.HTML
That one is the 5th on my Amazon wish list.
I hunted down all the books suggested and added a few more then sent the wish list link to my wife.
I may be during a lot of reading right after Christmas
KR
Carlisle Lynch spent most of the later part of his life drawing up antique furniture, some of it was 18th century. The drawings are well done.
Woodcraft and Garrett Wade used to sell them but it doesn't seem like they have them any more. However, Tools for Working Wood does.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=toolshop&Category_Code=CLL
Good Luck with it!
David C
K Riley, and DC,
Carlyle Lynch's granddaughter sells his plans. She advertises in FWW every issue. Catalog $2 PO Box 13007 Arlington TX 76094 Tel: 817-861-1619
His plans are very complete, with full size details of moldings etc, beautifully drawn.
About as many are of pieces in museums as drawn from private collections. There is also a book, Furniture Antiques Found in Virginia, Ernest Carlyle Lynch, Jr, Bonanza Books, 1954, but I think all the pieces illustrated there are available as drawings from the granddaughter.
The Old Salem Museum gift shop in Winston-Salem NC used to also sell some of his drawings, as he had copied several pieces in their collection.
Amazon is not the best game in town....... especially for woodworking books.
Take a look at A W Marlow & keyword woodworking on http://www.abebooks.com booksearch. Especially Fine Furniture for the Amateur Cabinetmaker, and for less than $5 you can pick up a copy with excellent drawings of an assortment of projects, from elementary starting pieces to antique reproductions with excellent instructional information and photos included. Beyond that, there are quite a number of books printed by Sterling that include multiple view furniture pieces (search Sterling as publisher, and woodworking as keyword) ..... some quite grand. None of these are what I'd call "plans", if that is what you must have, but the drawings and details are quite complete.
For the most part, the earlier the edition you can secure, the crisper the photos will be. To build your library, never pay the full price for a new book before you check this source for a used edition ..... Good Luck!
John in Texas
John,
Thanks for the heads up. My wife has been buying through ABE for a few yeaars now and I never thought to look there.
I just purchased Fine Furniture for the Amateur Cabinetmaker and two other books that fit the bill.
As to Amazon I checked the availablity of some of the books on my wish list and ABE doesn't have them available.
Knowing my wife she will check with ABE first before buying from Amazon.Kevin
Well I received Fine Furniture for the Amateur Cabinetmaker and it's not really what I was looking for.
KRiley,
Phil Lowe, at the Furniture Institute of Mass., has several detailed drawings of period furniture. I have a couple of them and they're pretty detailed. To order them, his website is below.
http://www.furnituremakingclasses.com/home.html
Hope this helps,
dr
You're not going to find what you want because it doesn't exist. My advice is embrace this truth and abandon the "Faking American Masterpieces" series of books. It just isn't worth your time.
Instead, I recommend:
1) studying Greene's book "American furniture of the 18th c..." so you know the structure
2) learn to use hand tools so you can execute the original joints and not have to redesign to accomodate your router bit set or table saw fence.
3) Sketch period pieces and their details- even if you can't draw. Most museums will let you do this, but even an hour spent making sketches of pictures in library books is a good idea. When you sketch, you are forced to learn about form.
4) Once you have an idea for basic structure, technique and form, start scaling off photographs. Instead of getting wrapped around the axle converting to real inches and feet, just develop the proportions. What is the width to height ratio of the upper case? How about the lower case. Where is the center divider with respect to the height of the case?
5) Lastly, read Andreas Paladio's "5 books of Architecture" and Chippendale's "Director...". Do the same divider work. I'm 100% convinced you will then know exactly how to build whatever you wish to build. This is not rocket science. Just a basic familiarization course with how things were really built.
Just in case you're curious, the answers are: the sides are almost always integer fractions and the fronts almost always golden section. Center dividers are typically golden section of the case height, and when subdivided into an even number of drawers, that proportion is 9/16. When there is an odd number of drawers I'm screwed. I've never be able to find any rule that makes sense. Maybe you will.
If you want to build furniture that's made in factories (mission for example), you need the factory's tools and plans. If you want to build furniture made in someone's living room 200 years ago, you need his tools and his plans. Make sense? His plans were a collection of prefered practices and simple divider tricks. You can learn them. Until you do you're just going to be frustrated.
Adam
Wow, you certainly have made a great many assumptions about the knowledge and abilities of a person you know nothing about nor have ever net.
95% of them wrong.
How insulting can one post be.
Opps. Sorry for the insults and wrong assumptions. I thought I was helping. I'll certainly be more careful in the future.
Adam
Well, KRiley, I found AdamCherubini's advice very insightful, helpful, and not insulting at all.
Just another point about late 18th century cabinetmakers. Paper and pencils were very expensive. Their drawing pens were very similar to the two-blades with screw adjustment pens that draftsmen used until the mid-20th century and were very tedious and frustrating to use. I know, I used them. I'm not saying that formal plans were never drawn, just that many cabinetmakers would just sketch and build, as Adam says.
It's just my opinion. I might be wrong.
Thanks again, Adam.
I still have my drafting set as you discribe. I have it on display as I use AutCAD now.I do a lot of scetch and build and build and scetch. I also will do a comlpete drawing in ACAD.Adam made assumptions that I've not laid the tools and skills groundwork for building furniture of any kind (over simplification).
That is assumption I never make about anyone. I would ask first to find out where the individual was. Then and only then would I understand if I could be helpful or not.
I will humbly state that I’m not a beginner I’m just branching out to a new area of design.
I used to teach boat building and before setting a student on a new task I would always ask, “Have you ever used/done/tried (fill in building strep) this before? When I get that answer the student and I can then carry on and I know where he or she needs help.
All most of us have time for is to read the question and formulate a response that will help. A long prologue of ascertaining the original poster's skills and abilities is pretty much out of the question. If it's important to you that all posts recognize your existing skills, simply point them out in your post.
Most everyone who posts, though, simply wants to help. Sometimes we hit, sometimes we miss. But it's all about cooperation, as nobody (well, maybe the Taunton employees) gets paid to contribute here.
It's best not to take offense easily. Don't forget, even if a post is addressed to you, it gets read by many others too; what helps you less may help others more. If you're patient here, you'll find a LOT of assistance and friendliness.
Have fun and good luck!
Insults like beauty,. exist in the eye of the beholder It appears you received much good information given in good faith. Drink from the water and be nourished. Don't complain because it wasn't your favorite flavor.
Don't talk about insults or Mat will show up and really hijack this thread...
Adam was'nt trying to be a jerk. He was just giving some pretty good advice. Copying originals is'nt that tough....Rob M. might disagree...at least on his level. Joinery is joinery. I build form photos all the time and the pieces look great. Maybe they are not built like the original craftsman built them, but the joinery is good and the pieces are solid...
Edited 11/11/2005 9:48 pm ET by Jimmy
Good post. The key point is that 18th. c. furniture is mostly about proportion and shape, and not nearly so much about the details such as fans, shells, and ball & claw feet.
You might add that if a piece doesn't show golden section proportions, it is likely show one of the other "standard" proportions such as square root of 2, or square root of 3.
And also note that there is a reason for the detailed discription of the column orders in the front of Chippendale's Director. Those proportions were often used to set up furniture designs.
For really good construction details of Newport Furniture, Michael Moses' Master Craftsmen of of Newport. You will have to find this through a library since it is unfortunately out of print. Jeffrey Green apparently has a small stock that he is offering for sale at $2,000. Morrison Heckscher's John Townsend, Newport Cabinet Maker also has lots of good pictures. Its still available at the publisher's price.
By the way, Greene's book does more than just show structure it also has a good chapter on exactly how to convert photographs into measurements.
Steve,Okay, I don't know about root 2 and root 3. Tell me more. I guess you can find these with a divider same as GS right? I'm guessing root 2 would be a 45 45 right triangle. I've never seen (but never looked ) for the applictaion of these. I guess root 2 is very close to my 9/16 theory. Column orders are really helpful as you say. Mack Headley seems to find these in out of the way places. But my use has always been more pedestrian. I've simply distilled an ionic column into:for a column of h, the base is h/5 and the capital is 2h/15The most obvious applictaion I've seen (and Headley has written about) is a table. I put the lower stretcher at 1/5 the height of the table up from the bottom or 6" for a 30" high table. The apron will be 4" deep. Be sure to tell me more about your ideas about the application of root 2 and 3. And how do you find root three with dividers? And did you read this anywhere? I have but haven't read Batty Langley.Adam
This was from a Mack Headley presentation. You are right about the 45-45 right triangle, the hypotenuse would be square route of two if the sides are 1 unit. Easy to do graphically.
For square root of 3, see if this works: Starting from the hypotenuse of the 45› triangle (which is ) construct a right triangle with one side being that hypotenuse (square root of 2) and the other of one unit. By Pythagorean theorem, the hypotenuse of that second triangle would be square root of 3.
In practice I use Excel, square root of two is a 1 : 1.414 ratio. Square root of 3 is 1 : 1.732, while phi, from the golden mean, gives a 1 : 1.618 ratio.
I was in the Hay Shop in October and Mack was able to show the Ionic column in the reproduction of the Galt family secretary that is in the shop.
I've used it a few times. I was making a reproduction of a Townsend Card table that was in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. It is only 26" high--without the castors that it likely had originally--and I needed to scale it up a bit. So I recast it in the Doric order. It seemed to work OK, but beauty is in the eye---I'm also using it to play with the sizes of styles and rails in a bookpress I am working on. Of course crown moldings and the like are pretty directly from the column orders, or as they are adapted by Chippendale.
Edited 11/11/2005 8:39 pm ET by SteveSchoene
Steve,I appreciate your message. I do this sort of stuff with a tape measure and a calculator most of the time (shh don't tell anybody) but I laways try to verify it with my dividers. What I most typically do is have a height and want some fraction of it. So for GS I use .618 for example.So I'd like to ask you if this makes sense:
I usually start with a square mark on a board (often the inside of my carcase). So I'll walk up that square line 1 divider width. Then mark 2 just anywhere and set my dividers to 2. If I swing the new setting from the top of the first mark to the bottom edge of the board, I should have a 30-60-90 (where the shorter leg is half the hypotneuse). At that point, the longer leg should be root 3, right? From there I can get either .732 or 1.732. I think this is more or less what you were trying to tell me right? You lost me a little bit with the 45-45 triangle.It sounds a little preposterous, but I guess it would only take a few minutes. Its not unbelieveable that someone would do this is it?Adam
Yes, what you propose is right. The length of the longer leg would have to be square root of three. Thats a lot simpler to do graphically than my method.
And I think thats exactly what people would do. I think that the symmetry that comes from using such a system of proportion tend to be attractive, at least to those of us who grew up in the Western tradition. This pretty clearly seems to be the "secrets and mystery" of the cabinet makers order. It seems to disappear with the disappearance of the guild system in late 18th or early 19th c. as the "industrial revolution" continued toward specialization and efficiency. Perhaps why furniture passes through such an awful period in the Victorian age until rescued by the Arts and Crafts Movement, and also by the Modern designers. (Sorry if anyone is a fan of Victorian furniture--its just my opinion, you are welcome to hold another.)
Its easiest to see these proportions used in architecture, where windows on different stories might be sized using those proportions in a progression. Thats even in the latest edition of Ramsey and Sleeper, Architectural Graphic Standards.
Edited 11/11/2005 10:38 pm ET by SteveSchoene
All,
For a fascinating history (and a good read), try "The Golden Ratio" By Mario Livio (Broadway Books, NY, a div of Random House). Sort of debunks many of the phi conspiracy theories out there, by pointing out that the proportion you are seeking to "prove" in old work can be found by setting your dividers at an arbitrary point to begin with. For instance, do you include the base mold, or the crown mold projection, or neither, in the case's width proportion? Not to say that some builders didn't use set ratios. I recently had an architectural cupboard in the shop that most definately had been proportioned after the orders in Chippendale's Director. For a look at those who might not have done so, see Sack's "Fine Points of Furniture", a lot of the "good" samples suffer from mishaps in proportioning. Also, check out lowboy # 409 in Nutting's "Furniture Treasury" with your dividers for an example of a piece whose every detail is related to ht/width, down to the radii of the arcs of its apron.
I've been asked many times over the years to build a piece to fit a certain space. Golden (or other)proportions pretty much go "out the door" when the customer wants a tall chest to hide a doorway at the end of a narrow hall--yes I built it, and it looked good there, the customer is always right!
Cheers,
Ray Pine
Sorry you were disappointed with Marlow. I work in Georgian and Queen Anne styles, and found he offered some variation in technique from what my Grandfather and Father taught me. Vandal is another published in Queen Anne & Federal. I now suspect you are leaning toward the following period of Classical styles, Hepplewhite, Sheraton and Federal, etc.
I'd suggest you secure a copy of Helen Comstock's excellent treatice on "American Furniture", covering Jacobean to Early Victorian, and let us know more specifically, the period/style that you seek. My copy is a 1962 Bonanza hardbound, and the photos are crisp & details clear. I suspect earlier editions may be even better. Nonetheless, on my shelves are hundreds of books, many with different views of each piece, some with measured drawings, and some of those include detailed instructions for specific features. I'll share the titles, etc, if you're interested but ask that you narrow the field a mite!
John in Texas
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