I posted this question as part of a response I made in another thread and the question disappeared under the water without leaving even a ripple. I’ll try again….
Has anyone tried the Lee Valley Veritas Power sharpening system? http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=48435&cat=1,43072
I’ve been looking at it in the local store since it was introduced, but thus far I’ve taken the typically Canadian response of “I’ll wait until I see a couple of thorough test reports.” I haven’t seen any in the rags I normally read, so I’ve decided to ask this august body for opinions.
Regards,
Ron
Replies
There was a post at sawmill creek on this system.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14380
hope it helps
Garry
Hi Rob,
We had a thread about this about 6 months ago.
Short answer is I own one and I love it.
Sharpening is fast, safe, accurate, easy and Sharp!
I highly recommend the purchase.
Tom
I bought one and am returning it.
I've found there is a fundamental problem with sharpening on this kind of system because the perimiter of the wheel is moving so much faster than the inside. On a half-inch chisel it doesn't matter, but on a jointer plane blade it matters a lot. To get the same wear across the blade you have to press down harder on the inside edge than on the perimiter, but that introduces a variable that's impossible to replicate. So you end up getting edges that are not straight across, even wavy. And you also don't get great repeatability. I've even found that when you switch from one grit to the next you get a different wear pattern on the blade, which should never happen.
Lee Valley has great customer service and when I called they said no one every complains. Maybe it's just my machine or just me or I'm expecting too much.
Hi Mark,I don't think the machine was designed for doing jointer or planer blades so that is stretching the intended uses of the machine.
For chisel,gouge, plane, spokeshave blades it works beautifully for me.I believe that Veritas may have a jig for sharpening planer/ jointer blades but it is a not a power system. It is designed for use on a piece of sandpaper on glass or granite.Regards,Tom
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.
I don't mean blades from a power jointer. I mean plane blades from a jointer plane. They're maybe 2 3/8" wide.
I guess the basic geometry works something like this. Suppose you're pressing that blade down on the disc, with the inside edge of the blade a half inch out from the center. The circumference of the disc at that inside edge is about 3.14", while the circumference at the other edge of the blade is about 18.06", or almost six times as much. With a difference that great, you're getting much more grinding at the outer edge than at the inner edge (there might even be some kind of squared factor based on speed - I don't know), and if you're trying to get anything like a straight grind you have to compensate for the speed difference by pressing down much harder on the inside edge than on the outside edge. I find that it's real hard to duplicate that pressure exactly from sharpening to sharpening or even from minute to minute. Maybe others have a different experience.
Lee Valley was great about letting me return it, and I'm sure I'll do lots of business with them in the future as I have in the past.
Mark,Yes, I was confused about what you were attempting to sharpen.
I see your point about differential grinding rates being possible,
I just haven't been able to notice it I guess.
No sharpening system is perfect I guess but this is the best one I have found.Have you thought about what system you might try next?Tom
As far as what I might try next. . . .
For the final honing, I'm definitely going back to my waterstones, whether I start using the honing guide method ala Charlesworth or hone by hand as I was doing before. I get great, sharp edges with the waterstones and really bought the Veritas tool only because I thought it would be faster.
So the only question is what I'm going to use for the initial grind, the goal being to quickly put a square, even edge on the tool that can then be honed by waterstones. Before the Veritas tool I was grinding by hand on a regular grinding wheel. Maybe I'll go back to that, although it can be difficult to get that perfectly straight edge by hand, or I've actually been looking at the ridiculously-expensive Tormek to do the initial grind. I definitely like the hollow grind because it makes honing by hand much easier (for me, anyway).
I know it's stupid to get obsessed about sharpening, especially when you are already getting good results.
Being that you mentioned Charlesworth in your last post on this thread- you are aware that He (sic, lol) recommends *strongly* that one puts a cambered edge on a jointer plane ... in fact, I think he even said that he doesn't know how else one can put a staight and square edge on a (long) board without this type of a grind.
This is so that one can keep the sole of the plane flat on the edge of the board at all times during the stroke, and to correct for out-of-squareness(sp?) one simply slides the plane left-or-right as you are running it down the board's edge (if you are following this?). This is how I do it now, as opposed to my old approach of trying to sort of float the plane SQUARE over the edge of the board ... I now almost find it hard to believe that I was ever able to do this successfully (even though I swear I remember doing it!!!???).
-Peter T.
I was frankly mystified by his comment on that point and remain mystified. It seems to me that with a cambered (or as we would say, radiused) blade in the jointer plane, you would create an edge that might be square from corner to corner, but would have a shallow gully in the middle, which would be highly disadvantageous when gluing two such edges together.
I do understand how having a slanted edge would allow you to correct for out-of-squareness (in one direction only), but the radiused edge would seem to be to introduce a more intractable problem than it solves. I square up edges using one of those bronze edge planes, made for the purpose, then finish with a jointer plane with a square, flat blade.
I have heard this described by other folks as the theory of complements. That being, if you want to creat a flat surface, you need a radiused blade, and if you want to create a rounded surface, you use a flat blade.I'll admit that I don't fully understand it, but the toothing plane that I use to rough out squirrely grain has a radiused blade, and it does the job quite well.Tom
TMS said-
" I have heard this described by other folks as the theory of complements. That being, if you want to creat a flat surface, you need a radiused blade, and if you want to create a rounded surface, you use a flat blade. I'll admit that I don't fully understand it ... "
If I may- I think what you mean is that you disagree (cuz it really sounds like, judging from your description of the theory, that you really DO understand it). If you don't disagree, than please allow me to!!! This is beyond *mere* paradox- I think that it is palpably mistaken ... it has to be wrong, doesn't it?!
That having been said- I definitely have put radiused edges on all of my bench and block planes. It seems that merely breaking the corners of blades (as is almost always done) is not nearly as good at hiding/removing "plane tracks" than feathering whatever thickness of a plane shaving over its entire width (or rather from the middle of its width -- its thickest aspect -- off to each edge) ... this even though it is a less widely used practice (to put it mildly). [Bigtime Sorry for all of the parentheticals]
Man, would I love a proponent of this theory of complements to step forward and present an explanation/argument ... one that simply demands our rational ascent.
Fascinating stuff, methinks ....
-Peter T.
Mark
I had a friend who bought LV prior to the two of us attending a dovetail class. His chisels were a mess.
The instructor had a similar tool, Lap Sharp from Wood Artistry, that had the same size turntable but the speed was much slower at 160+/- RPM and the unit is foot controlled. Also, the rotation of the turntable can be reversed so it corrects any problems with axial speed differences.
I picked a unit up and it gets a #7 jointer blade back mirror polished in about 15 minutes. The polish is so good you can see the craters on the moon reflected in the blade.
It is very pricey but worth every penny IMO. http://www.woodartistry.com/Products-LapSharp200.htm_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
Thanks for the input. I'm saving my shekels, and the next time I visit the store and find a returned or display unit I'll grab it. It's certainly handy to live in Ottawa and visit the LV store any time I feel like it. I've also met both Leonard (almost 20 years ago) and Robin Lee, and both are the genuine article.
Regards,
Ron
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