I’m seriously considering purchase of the Leigh FMT Mortise & Tenon Jig for use in my business. I know it’s pretty pricey, but if it does what they say it will do it will more than pay for itself. Does anyone have experience and recommendations on the FMT? One of my biggest concerns is that it appears the maximum length piece that can be used for cutting tenons is limited to the height the FMT is mounted off the floor. This could result in a mighty tall workbench! Also, any suggestions for alternative jigs would also be welcome. Thanks!
Rick
Replies
It works pretty good. The usual set up and test cut dance has to be preformed, accuracy depends on the operator. If your going to set it up and dedicate it to preforming repetitive operations that would be great or if you have a run to do. My problem is that I dont use it that often so when I do out comes the manual and the re-aquaintence begins again. The manual is good and support is available and prompt. You will have to build up from the bench depending on the lenght and stand on something if required. Like I eluded to if all the set up procedure is followed and test cuts preformed and the stock is on the money you will get a good joint repeatedly.
Rick,
turn your bench on it's side.
More seriously, the jig is designed to be clamped to a bench. If it were clamped to a right angle bracket that was then clamped to the bench, you could use it with any length piece. Only issue would be supporting the router's weight – an excuse to buy a lighter mass router and dedicate it to the jig?
Rick,
Have you considered using a hoizontal router set-up for milling tenons? The router is mounted to a vertical panel that that has the router mounted in a horizontal position and is adjustable for up & down movement. The horizontal table could be as wide or as long as the stock that you want to support. Use a sled with mounted clamps to hold the material during routing with the router bit cutting the bottom face which is sliding along the horizontal surface. Set-up is easy if the tenons are centered on the ends of the stock, assuming that a number of tenons will be cut with one set-up and the material thickness is constant. Just make small cuts on a set-up piece while alternating opposite faces and you can sneak up on the length and depth of the tenon. Use a back-up piece to eliminate any tearout at the end of the cut. Mortises can also be cut in this manner.
I built my horizontal router table as a benchtop unit based on the information provided in the book by B. Hylton and F. Matlack, entitled: Woodworking with the router.
Jon
Horizontal router (slot mortiser) is my preference as wel. The JDS multi-router is a ice machine and they have a ood template selection. You can also build your own version that will accept the JDS templates.Tom
Douglasville, GA
Horizontal slot mortiser of course but the traditional original style of using loose tenons like it was conceived of in the 50's in Europe. We've made all lengths of rails and stiles you couldn't do easily any other way. The JDS is kind of a step backward in my opinion and for a little more you could have a commercial machine. Call Laguna about the Robland unit. Not listed on the website but basically it's the horizontal slot mortiser that mounts on a combo machine and you can mount a router or some kind of seperate motor to run the cutter. Hammer, Rojek, and many European manufacturers make these units. Loose tenons are very fast and accurate and strong.
Why do you find the JDS to be a step backwards? It will do all that the robland will do but also has a decent template system. I wish these types machine were more available for people to look at/use. There are very few places where one could even compare features of such machines. I built my own version of a slot mortiser and it is a great machine. I wish I had bought or built one years ago. Tom
Douglasville, GA
I find that the loose tenon is far faster and accurate than milling a tenon on the end of stock. The JDS is the American interpretation that came long after the original machines were invented in Europe. I find it backwards because it takes longer to use the template sytem to machine tenons. Been using slot mortisers for over 15 years and have worked with chisel and chain mortisers in factroy situations and find the horizontal slot mortiser to be the best for one offs or even production runs in a small shop. For large runs in factories single end tenoner is justified. I could be done making a frame using loose tenons before you even finished setting up the tenon template. Most all the shops around me use horizontal slot mortisers from Griggio, Bini, Robland, Rojek, etc. One guy even has the JDS so I'm familiar with pretty much all of them. More accurate I find as you use the same cutter and setting to machine mating slots in the rail and stile so a PERFECT fit is guaranteed. The only problem is it's too easy! I could take someone with little skill and have him produce accurate work with little training.
I agree with you except for the fact that the JDS gives you the option of using loose tenons or routing the tenons with a template. I don't see how that can be a step backward, it simply gives another option. I could use the template system with my machine but usually opt for loose tenons. I do think either the JDS machine a slot mortiser is a better option than the FMT jig.
Tom
Douglasville, GA
Just my opinion of the JDS taking it to another level that is more complicated and unnecessary but heck...some guys like that. If I can do it 5 minutes versus 15 minutes...I opt for the five.
Do you own any other Leigh products? If so, and you like them, go for it. If not, I would take a deep breath and ask some users of Leigh how they like their jigs.
I, for one, hate mine. I have two college degrees and wasn't smart enough to set it up. If I had a permanent station for it, with two D Handle Routers with bits installed, adjusted and ready to go, I might change my mind. But I can only imagine the learning curve for their M&T jig............
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Boris,
I have two college degrees and a Leigh dovetail jig. Love it. The local Woodcraft had a 3 hour class with hands-on experience about the jig. Took a lot of the mystery out of it.
Since I don't use it every day or every week, I do have to go back through the book and sometimes I even watch the video again. But it comes back quick.
I hear great things and their m&t jig. Expensive. I wouldn't use it enough to justify that kind of money. One of the professional woodworkers locally says it is great.
Alan - planesaw
I didn't have the time to fool with the learning curve. Like I said, I spend 5-6 hours setting up the dovetail jig, and it takes me about 30-45 minutes for each subsequent set up. Yes, I have to watch the video again, if I haven't used it in the last couple months.
Christ, I can drill out a mortise with a drill press in about 2 minutes, and with a sharp chisel, clean out the mortise in about 5 minutes. I can cut that time in half with a dedicated Delta Mortiser. The Tennon takes about 5 minutes of set up in the Delta tennoning jig, plus about 2 minutes with a pattern rasp getting it to fit.
Total time for a single mortise and tenon: 12 minutes or so.
Even if I spent the 30 minutes or so for set up on each new Mortise, I guess I don't see the benefit of the Leigh machine(s) or some of the other very expensive dovetail jigs and mortise machines for the occasional furniture maker. While I am a pro, I am not a professional furniture maker. It is a hobby.
I guess you are smarter and faster than me, buts thats fairly typical. I was an underachiever in school. :-)
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Probably not smarter or faster. I credit the class with making it simple for me. I learn better by doing than I do by reading. Sometimes that is dangerous, I know.
And, I know that what works for one, doesn't work for someone else. The old Ford or Chevy debate.
Alan - planesaw
Rick,
I bought an FMT from Lee Valley a couple of months ago. I bought it after I just finished up 8 mission style chairs. I wish I had bought it sooner. The machine is extremely precise but does have some limitations, such as mortise depth (1.25 inch) and the sizes. You can use it to just cut the mortises and use a floating tennon, or use the machine to cut a perfect matching tennon. After a couple of test cuts to get the exact sizes that I wanted, the dry mortise and tennon came apart with a pop. I could actually feel suction as the joint came apart. Realize that the jig is great for chairs and small cabinetry, but large peices are going to be a bit of a trick. This jig is great for repeated M&T operations at odd angles with great accuracy. My only dissapointment is the lack of depth for through tenons. I'm going to build a few more chairs and a bed using the jig here in the next few weeks and I can't wait to exercise its efficiency.
I've used Leigh tools before and have no doubt of the FMT but like with most tools the accuracy is a combination of the tool and the operator. I haven't tried the FMT but I can tell you haven't tried a dedicated slot mortiser. You will find the efficiency is much greater and the capacity for larger and deeper mortises, not mention being able to handle bigger stock. We once had a job of mahogany sliding screen doors and the rails on some of them were 12' long. With horizontal slot mortiser and loose tenons we could machine the 8 mortises per door in a matter of minutes per door.
Comparing the FMT to a horizontal slot mortiser is like comparing a bicycle to a car. Both will get you there but one's a lot faster. Of course it costs more as well but there's ways around that as well. I've made them from converted handmills which can be gotten for scrap metal prices if one knows where to look.
http://woodcentral.com/shots/shot52.shtml
Edited 10/22/2003 8:15:27 AM ET by Rick at Arch. Timber and Millwork
Morticing and tenoning jigs essentially with no length limitations. Work attaches to tenonmaker then long work goes into vice, always working the stick on-end.
Moticer has no such length sensitivities.
Router Jigs book has plans for both, could be in your library for freebee.
Gentlemen this has been an interesting discussion but surely the question "Is the Leigh FMT Mortise & Tenon jig a good business idea" depends on the particular type of work one has in mind and the length of each run.
I have a slot morticer. It's my preferred tool for mortices. I also find floating tenons to be very convenient. Floating tenons are a quick and strong construction method and especially so if the joint is angled. However if the stock is too long for me to be able to comfortably use the slot morticer, I revert to conventional tenons - usually rough-cut with a bandsaw and finished with a homemade jig/router & rasp. If the job suits it I often reach for the biscuit jointer - in many situations it's easily the fastest way to form a mortise and floating tenon joint!
With respect to Leigh jigs I've not used their M&T unit but I do have their dovetail jig. It's well made and produces a very accurate end result. Yes it's a bit of a fiddle to set up but once one's used it a couple of times I don't find it difficult to use. Looking at it, I suspect Leigh's M&T jig would have similar characteristics.
Personally I find all my router/jig methods deliver excellent results but also a bit too slow for extended production runs.
Ted
I was also in the market for an FMT a while ago and decided to hold off and do more research. For furniture, the FMT seems like a good idea. You may also want to look at the WoodRat and the horizontal router jigs like the Woodtech (Woodworker Supply).
For cabinetry (which is 90% of my business) a cope and stick with no tenon (floating or otherwise) is the standard. I worked in a shop that used a stub tenon for square edge doors but even this can be done with a shaper/router set-up.
Like Rick at Arch. Timber and Millwork, I think if you are going to be building larger doors, a through or floating tenon is appropriate and a slot morticer is the way to go.
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