Ok guys. I have narrowed my choice of chisels to Pfeil and CI Fall. I am kind of sick of hearing good things in reviews so I only want to hear what people DONT like about these two types of chisels. Also, dont get into some lame discussion on foreign trade or some other bull crap that doesn’t pertain. Thanks.
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Replies
I'd love to help you out, but I come here for the lame discussions on foreign trade and other bull crap that doesn't pertain.
................................................
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot
Can't say anything about Pfeil, but I did buy a CI Fall. Steel was excellent, handle was very uncomfortable. Chucked the chisel in my lathe, with the blade headed into the bore and turned the handle to something more comfortable. Issue I had was the high side bevels, that made this chisel not really a good finese chisels for dovetails and the such. I hear the Pfeil has the same type of high side bevels.
I gave the CI Fall away several years ago in a time period when I was getting rid of modern hand tools that I did not use that much. Steel was good, but it was more of a bench, almost a firmer chisel.
T.Z.
Pfeil - I think it means arrow in German. Excuse me, but I don't want an arrow for a chisel, nor do I long to launch my chisels from a bow. Also, the wood on the handle is too woody looking.
CI Fall - I'd be too nervous that the chisel would want to jump off the bench. Also, it has bad grammer; it should be "See Me Fall.
I hope this all pertained enough for you.
Edited 3/31/2009 8:32 am ET by Samson
Samson,
You holding out for the Woodriver version of these guys?(Sorry, I could not resist. I am a bad person.)Take care, EHPS: My standard chisel recommendation (as seen on "knots") is: Nooitgedagt, simply because they have a name that will hurt wood."Yes, but what's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded." - Augustus McCrae, Lonesome Dove
ed,
i never would have thought it either...
i'm for the blue spruce line. they are just peachy while cutting softer woods. it was upsetting to cut oak with 'em and i will not do that again.
zo denk ik!
eef
"it has bad grammer"You surely meant, "it has POOR grammAr"Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
No, I surly dit'n!
;-)
Was looking for new matched set so looked at Pfeils at Woodcraft.
They were custom to Woodcraft ( I think because of Woodcrafts relationship to Pfeil carving tools. The carving stuff has always been great but the chisels seem to be the antithesis of the carving tool quality.
IMHO, not remotely same quality. Rough steel finish, rough handles rippled back blade. Way overpriced. Woodcraft could not or would not tell me the kind of steel used. My interest was in some O1 stock but either way I wanted to know.
Stayed with old Stanleys/Marples and some gifts of Japanese chisels ($100-150 each) until discovered Narex. Good manufacturing, good steel, flat backs.
Bought one of each size and some duplicates. The extras for grinding down side bevels on a few for specific dovetails and a few to do skews/fishtails on. @$8.00 each, they fit my budget just fine. The also have mortise chisels. I don't do that much hand mortise anymore and they aren't pig stickers but then at the price...
May experiment with knocking off the top bolsters and shorten the handles- I think they are too long... shorter = better for my use.
I understand they are comparable to LNs so I will have a hard steel set but at the low cost I can spend more time sharpening.
Hope this helps.
As I said...IMHO
Boiler
Boiler,
Got to agree with you on the Narex. I've got many more chisels than I can remember to name here, from very old to very new, including modern AI and LN.
For Christmas this past year, my nine year, with the help of her mother, bought my a 4 piece set of Narex bench chisels. $22.00 for the entire set at Highland Woodworking. Me thinks to myself "how can this set of four chisels be as good as a single chisel that cost me $55.00 (LN)". Well, in some respects it was. The major area it wasn't was the side bevels, which can be corrected.
The steel in the Narex chisels is excellent. The handles very uncomfortable, but I simply chucked them in my lathe with the blade going back into the spindle and in a total time of about an hour, all 4 sported a new look, similar to a very comfortable tanged Buck chisel that I love the feel of. Backs were damn near flat out of the box. And now, after, let's see, three months of use, I think these are one of the bargains of the century. I find myself reaching for these chisels now, instead of the AI's, which were my go to bench chisel (I find the LN handles a bit to puny, even for my medium-small hands). For dovetails, I generally use one or two sizes of an AI butt style chisel and a Japanese chisel that have side bevels going to a knife edge.
Back to the Narex, I have not had an edge fold on my, in the cherry, walnut, maple and white oak that I have used them on. After the initial sharpening, re-sharpening goes quickly and results in a sharp edge very quickly.
In closing, for $22.00 for the 4 piece set, beginner to experienced woodworkers will find a real bargain.
T.Z.
Now everybody can lay off the Chinese and pick on Slavic people for a while.
Of course it won't happen and I'll let you and everybody else guess why. And, to date at least, the sales of these chisels has probably kept more money out the Thomas Lie-Nielsen's pocket than the Woodriver range. Where's the moral outrage? Samson, where 'ya at? Those chisels sure look like other bevel edged chisels, hasn't somebody's copyright or trademark/trade dress been infringed upon?
How dare those consonant-loving ba$tards make a decent chisel at a decent price!
Edited 3/31/2009 1:15 pm ET by Oilstone
????
I guess you missed the Woodriver plane thread....
Charles,
Stop winding up Sean about chisels with that wormtongue o' yourn.
You know, one day a good fairy will melt you with a cyberspell. But I suppose you will just reconstitute in another goblin-guise, like a green mist issued by the vile witch Wartina after she has dined on live nestlings in toadstool sauce.
Lataxe
Don't wind me up none. Way too weak. Charles must be havin an off day.
Me thinks Oilstone (Charles) responded to my enthusiastic post about Narex! For what reason, I do not know - maybe I'm a dumbhead and don't understand the bait dangled in front of me?????
T.Z.
Yeah, my mom's parents were both Czechoslovakian, so yeah, I'm totally all for Czech's doing whatever they want.
And if you think Narex is to LN 750s as Borg's Shave is to LN's Boggs shave, you need a new prescription.
Be funny as $hit if they decided to make a socket chisel. Which of course they could easily do.
Edited 3/31/2009 9:21 pm ET by Oilstone
Give it up. I hope they do.
Have you been drinkin?
Are tanged chisels fair game for the copyists? Surely, somewhere somebody has suffered economic damages and therefore has a cause of action; those chisels look a lot like others I've seen.
Could it be a plot by the Czechs to take over the world?
Those bleedin' Slovaks - first Dracula, now these chisels. Sheesh.
Edited 4/1/2009 8:45 am ET by Oilstone
Could it be a plot by the Czechs to take over the world?
You bet! My NEW neighbor on the 'Left' side of my property MAY be, not sure.. Maybe Polish, or Russian.... Very nice folks BUT they do strange things..
As in they built this HUGE, BEAUTIFUL Stone covered house next to my old shack.
I did not go to the village and complain about the water runoff from that huge roof onto my property. I went to the folks with the best big bottle of Vodka I could afford..
A month later, some workers showed up and asked for permission to enter my yard. I asked why? They said, we have to lay a gravel pit and drain pipe.. It will cost you nothing.. What else could I say but.. If the fence has to go what do I do about my dogs.
They made a temporary fence around my back door!
All is well here. Not all strangers are strangers if you talk to them in a civil manner...
AND I am sure the good Vodka helped!
Edited 4/3/2009 7:34 am by WillGeorge
You are a wise man Will.
................................................
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
You are a wise man Will.
AND I still say stupid things!
Love that story....
The Narex chisels get a lot of good reviews. I guess that a plain-Jane tanged chisel is more or less considered in the public domain; one never hears the patent/trademark/trade-dress sabres being rattled where they are concerned. Personally, I thought the same about old Stanley plane designs but I suppose when one's pet provider is involved then emotions enter into the equation.
Save your money and go to the flea market or on ebay and get yourself some good cast steel moldy oldies. I have reconditioned, and used them for over 30 years and they sharpen great, maintain an edge, and feel a whole lot better than most of the new ones.
traveller ,
I'm with you on the second hand used chisels . Over the years I have picked them up here and there but this is a good time for a buyer looking .
As you said yard sales flea markets antique stores are a good source for old tools as well as pawn shops . You could easily find an entire set if you spend a little time looking .
There are some deals out there now in this economy , heck for little more then the price of some shipping you can buy some good old chisels. Buck bros, are one of my favorite and a Swedish brand that had a Shark on them.
Most needed help , a handle or re grind on the sharp end or both but for between 25 cents and $2 you can't go too far wrong , besides then you will understand how that chisel needs to be and will know how to keep it that way.
regards dusty
My Older set of Marples work' fer me. Could they be pre Irwin? I have no idea. I use two sets. The second set is used if I have to grab a 'sharp' one really quick.. I hone both sets when needed so I have that 'emergency' one to grab.
I have a set of Mortise chisels that are very good.. Good quality, or were they just expensive? Maybe both? Or just work? But I hardly ever use them except for squaring off the corners I make with my routers. I'd say they make nice paring chisels for that work..
I also have a set of very old Craftsman and a set of these from Japan:
http://store.mannyswoodworkersplace.com/1201606.html
Or something like them at about the same price range. I will say they hold an edge VERY well... And then some but hard to hone...
As to my very old Craftsman set.. I have hammered throught cinder block walls with them, OK so just the grout lines to remove blocks to make a 'way' for a new doorway.. After.. I made a quick run to the grinder to 'restore' the edge and a trip to my Tormek and almost as good as new.. OK, cept fer the handles I beat to death. The new edge sure cut wood alot better than stone!
I sure like those Japan made set... Not expensive ones BUT VERY, VERY nice in my mind. However, I seem to always use my old Marples? Not sure why. Maybe because the Japanese ones 'LOOK' like there is hardly anything left to make a flat edge with all that metal removed behind the 'edge'..
Not fighting anybody.. Just what this old man does....
AND when Spring Cleaning comes, the Blue Handled ones are EASY to find!
Have a great (and safe) Spring, Summer, and Fall woodworking...
That's All Folks!
Edited 4/3/2009 7:11 am by WillGeorge
Edited 4/3/2009 7:13 am by WillGeorge
I probably own about 20 chisels, several of them Japanese chisels that I picked out personally during trips to Japan. My "go to"s are an old set of Sandviks (1/4" to 1") with solid black plastic handles that I picked up at a hardware store in British Columbia. Good steel that holds an edge and they just feel right in my hands. I think I paid less than $20 for the set.Regards,Ron
Tang,
Chisels are not that difficult to make. If you buy chisels, you are limited to the features that are provided, and the manufacturers aim at the masses, not at the cream of the crop.
So get a few books on blacksmithing, and get some basic blacksmithing equipment. Not only is this work rewarding, it is also great exercise.
If you don't want to go all the way and make your own chisels, the second best way to go is to buy a set and modify them. I am not sure. It may have been that guy who used to play basketball and is now in woodworking. What is his name? Larry Bird or Lonnie Bird or something like that. I think it was him who put out an article on how to take an old set of Marples or Irwins and turn then into something closer to the Lie Nielsens. Essentially you cut off half the handles because they are too long and top heavy, and then you grind down long edges (first few inches) to a knife edge to make it so they work well on dovetails. This is very cheap and works well, and it is a great way to start conversations with other woodworkers who see your sawe-off chisels.
Well, I hope you find my message as useful as those you got from others. Let me know if you get into making your own chisels. There is money to be made in blade making. Take a look at Hock.
Have fun.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Stayed with old Stanleys/Marples and some gifts of Japanese chisels ($100-150 each) until discovered Narex. Good manufacturing, good steel, flat backs.
As another knotter mentioned, the Narex chisels(from Czech Rep) are a good buy and good quality.
I bought a set of 6 Narex chisels after reading Chris Gouchner's chisel review in FWW. I needed some wide skew chisels at the time and they were too pricey for a specialty chisel. So.. I ground the Narex wide chisels to left/right skews and honed them to work well. These Narex chisels will hold an edge. I went back and grabbed the others(1/2" ...) that I planned to use as "beaters" and honed them to a fine edge. They work well and hold an edge. For the price, I think the are as good as the old Marples and maybe a tad better.
I like the Swiss made carving tools and I have managed to collect quite a few. They are very expensive. Most of the German made stuff is expensive. In my opinion, much of their stuff is matched by other makers at a cheaper price. So I suggest looking a little beyond Germany(just to the east)
dan
For what it's worth, in my opinion the steel in the pfeils isn't all that great. It doesn't hold an edge all that well, at least not compared to my LN's. I have no experience with the CI Falls.
I don't know about the brands you mentioned but I can highly recommend the Lie-Nielsen chisels. Since honing them when they were new, I only need to strop then with the green honing compound before each time I use one. They are reproductions of Stanley socket chisels and to me they feel very well balanced. You could start out with the set of 5 without the tool roll and then add other widths as needed. I don't believe you will be disapointed. Good Luck!
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