…they are awful expensive. From my new woodworker post you know that I’m just getting started. At this point I’m not willing to invest that much money in a tool. Not because I don’t think it is worth it, but because I’m pretty sure that I’ll screw it up. What are some reasonable priced tools that will work just fine for a beginner, but I’m not going to cry over if I ruin them?
There is a contractor grade Stanley low angle block plane at the local hardware store. From my reading so far I’d guess that this plane would be reasonable for cleaning up joints, knocking off corners, etc. It will also be good to practice plane tuning on without fear of ruining a high end tool. Should I go for it?
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I can think of two versions of the Stanleys currently available--with and without an adjustable mouth. The one without probably isn't worth considering, and the other one goes for about $45. Couple it with a decent after-market blade (a must-have in my opinion, whether it be Hock, Veritas, or Lie-Nielsen), and you're halfway to a Lie-Nielsen. And you still would have to spend quite a bit of time flattening the sole of the Stanley, something you wouldn't have to do with Lie-Nielsen or Veritas. Speaking of which, consider the Veritas. Their planes are of a very high quality, comparable to Lie-Nielsen but less in price.
If ability is the barrier, a Lie-Nielsen or Veritas is something you can grow into. If anything, I think a beginner benefits most from these quality planes as the lesser ones can be just an exercise in frustration. Don't worry about screwing them up. The worse thing you can do to them is probably screw up the blade, and that can usually be fixed by resharpening.
If money is the barrier, I would say pass on the contractor grade Stanley and save up for the Veritas or Lie-Nielsen. Otherwise, I might suggest getting an older used Stanley low angle block plane. Try garage sales, swap meets, and the like if those options are available to you. You could try eBay as well, but you can't inspect them in person so go with reputable sellers but still beware.
Another reliable entry level brand is Record (from Lee Valley Tools). But, the key is to make sure the blade is properly sharpened and the bottom of the plane and back of the blade are flattened. This can be a long and tendious process, which makes the Lie-Nielson tools seem more reasonable. From what I understand they come ready to go pre-sharpened and flattened. Ask yourself what your time is worth.
Also, working with a high-end tool may encourage you to work more thoughfully and precisely, improving your accuracy and your satisfaction level.
baldmoutain,
After I bought the LN dovetail saw (which I love) I discovered Disston saws and the used market. Bought a nice cross cut saw for $5 and have seen several nice rip saws in the $25-35 range at the larger swap meets. I also did some research on chisels and have bought several for a few dollars at the swap meets. I don't find it particularly useful to buy 'sets' but rather individual pieces for a specific purpose...saves a lot .
Also, I've picked up several planes used...the block planes are often in the $10 range...
Edited 8/12/2005 9:07 am ET by BG
As I said in your other thread:
As far as the cost of planes, I recommend contacting someone like Patrick Leach (http://www.supertool.com) and telling him you want good clean users. Fettle them up and replace the blade with Lie-Nielsen Stanley replacements if you can. You should be able to get all three - scrub, jack, and jointer for a few hundred I'd guess, add another hundred for the new blades.
He can fix you up with a block plane too. Tell Patrick you want stuff from the sweetheart era if possible (1930's or so) and that you are after users, not cosmetics. In my experience, these older planes (made back when people depended on there tools for their craft and power tools were not as common) are as close to Lie Neilsen (which are essentailly reproductions of the Stanley Bedrock planes) as you're going to get for a decent price. Lee Valley planes will cost you more. Even new Record planes will cost you more than good older Stanley's.
You could buy the older Stanely's even cheaper on eBay, but then you run the risk of hidden defects and various other headaches. Leach will be selling you his expertise in judging the quality aong with giving you a good price on some users. And I have no affiliation with Patrick, I'm just a well satisfied customer.
Hi Samson,OK, stop pushing. :DActually, Patrick lives less than a hour away from me. I'll send him some email. Sounds like that may be the way to go. (I signed up for his tool list, but haven't received anything yet. I also read some of his site. It's very apparent he LOVES hand tools.)
I use and love my LN planes, also my old Norris and Spiers, et. al. I actually think it's an advantage as an entry level plane. It needs very little tuning, and the blade is actually close to flat (which cannot be said of any other blade you get, except for Lee Valley, which I don't knwo about).
That said, if you get a new Anant or some other cheapo, get a good blade, flatten the sole and the blade, and you will have pretty good results. The trouble is, the more you know to adjust, the more experienced you are, and the more you want the good stuff.
I like LN, and I think the quality is worth the $$$. If they are not in your budget, I think buying an old Stanley and tuning/fettling it is your best bet:
1. You will get a good plane out of it, for a modest cost
2. You will learn how to sharpen and fettle, something you may have to do from time to time, even with planes bought new, especially if they see rough use
3. You will learn how to tell when a plane is sweet, and when it's not right and how and when to tune/hone
4. If you do some day buy a LN or other fine plane, you'll appreciate the craft that went into making it
I've bought LN and I've restored older planes, and I think I learned to appreciate both sides of this debateGlaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Ummm... What doesn fettle mean? (I did say I was new.)I just talked with my dad. He says he has 4 or 5 planes in his basement that he has been collecting at yard sales over the years. I may have hit the jackpot. (Probably not. Most likley a bunch of old Stanleys. But that is OK. Lots of learning tools.)Now I need to jump in and start making stuff. Once I get a bit farther into woodworking I'll ask some more questions. At the moment I feel pretty confident that I'm heading in the right direction. Thanks for all the help and pointers guys. I really appreciate it.
Fettle is just a word for tuning up a tool. In the case of an older hand plane in involves cleaning it up - flattening the sole - sharpening/cambering the blade - perhaps filing the mouth in some cases or filing the frog to sole bed flat - or flattening the edge of the metal piece that holds the blade in place (Chip breaker / cap iron) and polishing its top so shavings pass over it smoothly - oiling it - maybe waxing it.
Here's a good list of references this guy collected (scroll down to fettling references): http://workshop.tjmahaffey.com/workshop/planes2.php#planes1_anchor14
Same page has links to lots of other good plane info on the hot links at the top labeled Part 1; Part 2 etc.
You really get to know a plane and make it your own when you fettle it up yourself. You get an intimacy with its parts and how they work together. I recommedn it as great intro to hand planes.
Not because I don't think it is worth it, but because I'm pretty sure that I'll screw it up. What are some reasonable priced tools that will work just fine for a beginner, but I'm not going to cry over if I ruin them?
I gotta admit that when I first started I went through the same thought process... spent as much as I could on what seemed to be reasonable Stanley and Record planes... all nice n new, straight outa the box...
I'll cut a long story short by sayin that in use, I was constantly asking myself "is it me doing something wrong or is it the tool?" I struggled on with them for a while, learned about tuning and sharpening properly etc, but still, when things went wrong there was still that nagging doubt...
That doubt went out the window when I bought my first L-N... the learning curve got real flat in a hurry... I knew the tool was capable of getting the job done, therefore the fault had to be mine...
Now your statement about crying really bothers me... see... no matter if you buy Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen tools, they're both covered by lifetime guarantee's... any fault for any reason gets replaced.. no quibble.. Granted the cost a fair bit to begin with, but you're only buying these tools once, and once bought they're utterly dependable.....
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
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