Hey Gang,
I picked up a bronze Lie-Nielsen #140 plane off of Ebay a few weeks ago for the paltry sum of $133 (the gent had a buy it now, which I gladly did;))
I seem to remember Lataxe or Jeff Heath or somebody talking about a tip for using the plane to cut a shallow recess on the end of boards for dovetailing? Can anybody steer me to that post, or outline the process?
Thanks in advance,
Lee
Replies
If I understand correctly what you are asking, the idea is just to work a shallow rabbet into, for example, the inside of the piece where the tails are made. The rabbet is just as wide as the thickness of the pin piece -- just like if you were doing a simple rabbet joint. Then, cut your dovetails adjusting for the different thickness. This results in the inside corner of the DT being concealed in the rabbet so you don't see any slop that may develop at this point of the joint.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the reply - that was the info I was looking for.
Cheers,
Lee
It help you align things as well.
Watchout, though: there's a left and a right skew, and it can make a difference.
Rob eventually sold me two!
Lee,
In addition to what Mike said, if you use the #140 to create a shallow rabbet on the inside of the tail board, you have effectively created a small shoulder that you can butt the pin board up against when you're laying out the pins... Rob Cosman does this in one of his dovetailing videos.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael,
Hi, and thanks as well. Do you recall exactly which video that tip is in? I have Rob's hand-cut and advanced hand-cut videos as well as hand planes and sharpening, but that technique is not mentioned.
Lee
Lee,If you're sure that it's not in those videos, then it must be in his "Drawer Making - The professional Approach" video. Besides the basic and advanced d'tails video that's the only other video of his that I have (I think that they are all excellent) and I'm positive that I've seen him use that technique in one of the videos. Cheers,Michael
Yes, it's in "Drawer Making."
-Andy
Michael / Andy,
Thanks - the drawer making video is the one I don't have - go figure.
Lee
Lee
What's up! In addition to what Mike stated about hiding the inside corners, the slight (1 or 2 passes) rabbet leaves a ledge for the pin or tail board (whichever you cut first) to register nicely on the other board, and not slide around. This comes in extremely handy when making those nice, thin pins.
Jeff
Hey Jeff,
How ya been, man?
I thought you might pop in here. Seems like I remember you and Lataxe talking about the technique. I'm looking forward to giving it a try - just waiting on that darn saw (dammit mwenz!) I must be behind 14,387 other people in line - but I know it's worth the wait.
Lee
Mapleman,
You probably already know this, but Mike's saws are available through The Best Things...they are the one's patterned after the saws found in the Seaton tool chest...I have the dovetail saw and the large tenon saw..they are awesome to say the least..usually only takes three days to get them.
Neil
Hi Neil,
Yes, I know about The Best Things. Mike is making me 2 dovetail saws, one for thinner stock (drawers, etc.) and one with a slightly different configuration for larger case work. I also have the option of selecting the handle material I want.
I didn't mean to sound unhappy, I'm glad to wait to get just what I want. I have talked to him recently and I think I am close......
Lee
P.S.
How is the mail from New Zealand? Any packages yet?
yes, the plane arrived Monday and it was torture waiting to finish up my day job. At home I had some figured maple that I 'd taken down from rough stock which awaited final smoothing. Philip's plane was like a dream. After I figured out how to adjust it I was making whisper thin shavings almost effortlessly. The smoother, at 8+ lbs is twice as heavy as my LN 4 1/2 but the weight actually seemed advantageous as there was little downward pressure required. Before I knew it I was knee deep in shavings and a half hour had gone by..with or against the grain there was no tearout...I could go on and on...what a treat....I may never use myDewalt planer again..truly a piece of functional art...
Neil
Neil
The main downside of Philip's planes is that you get distracted and forget when it is time to stop planing. :)
Regards from Perth
Derek
Neil, don't throw away the power planer just yet- use it to save time (;).
I must say that that plane in particular was tracked by me every inch of the way, and it was a huge relief when you confirmed the arrival.
Since it is a bevel up design, you will understand that the angle of sharpening directly affects the effective cutting angle . The Veritas pamphlet supplied with their blades sets out some options, but here at Knots you can ask almost any question as you are amongst friends.Philip Marcou
Philip,
I don't remember what the book was. I believe it may have been "Brave New World". What I remember was that they when people went to the movies in this futuristic novel, they could put their hands on the arm rests, and actually feel what the actors were feeling. If this ever gets developed, I want to have someone take one of those movies of NoviceNeil using your planes, and put my hand on the arm rests so I can experience what it is like to use one of your planes. Come to think of it, that might be one heckuva sales tool. Until then, I have written "Marcou" on my Stanley #4.
Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Mebbe it was Clockwork Orange, their eyes were propped open so they couldn't look away. Horror show, horror show.
The Stanley logo in my #5 is Orange. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Wish Philip would send me one, for a trial.......................................................
Ray
Ray,
"Wish Philip would send me one, for a trial".
Could well happen-I have noted that.
I am susceptible to delightful ladies, certain Harleys, Jaguars, you type of woodworking and serious watches:not necessarily in that order.
And I aim to visit the USA next year-may even drop into the Albuquerque area....Philip Marcou
Edited 8/11/2007 5:40 am by philip
Well, if you come through NW PA, I could let you take my Harley and you simply let me take a plane! As far as ladies go, I've got to draw the line somewhere!
philip,
If you are in the Commonwealth of Virginia on your trip, come see me. I have a motorbike that will spoil Harleys for you, forever.
Ray
Must be an Indian--nothing else would spoil one from a vintage Harley...
I had a '36 (iirc--I was too young to appreciate it).
Take care, Mike
Mike,
Bingo. 38 chief.
Ray
Ray and Mike,
I wish I could produce the black and white photo of my Uncle with his Indian.It caught fire somehow and my Uncle threw the remains down a well. This was just prior to his departure to join the Royal Airforce at the start of WW11. According to my Mother he never recovered from the loss of his Indian.Philip Marcou
And I aim to visit the USA next year-may even drop into the Albuquerque area...
Well, Philip, if you end up in the northwest--Oregon or Washington--You'll always have a place to stay here with us.
Of course, depending on the family here at the time, it may be a cot in the shop. Depending on which family is visiting, *I* have thought about a cot in the shop...
Take care, Mike
Cot in shop excellent. stop. confirm number of ladies making music with bendy saw blades. stop.Philip Marcou
Ah, a toolmaker's orchestra...Alas, no lasses here to make sound from bendy blades.
I do have 15 gallons of really good wine about ready to be bottled, though.
Take care, Mike
Philip,
If you stop in the Albuquerque area, you have a place to stay [with a real bed inside the house -- sorry Mike: couldn't resist!! :-) ]. We can also fix you up with some good eatin', fine drink, and, who knows? maybe even that comely young lass.... ;-)
.<!----><!----><!---->
Tschüß!<!----><!---->
<!----><!---->James<!----><!---->
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"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that...."
-- A.C. Clarke
Gosh...no offense taken...I'll just go and sulk in my corner...[bg].
I think Philip will find a warm welcome and reception no matter where his travels take him in the states. Well, everywhere with the exception of a single place.
Take care, Mike
Mel,
I want to have someone take one of those movies of NoviceNeil using your planes, and put my hand on the arm rests so I can experience what it is like to use one of your planes. Come to think of it, that might be one heckuva sales tool.
You might have just hit on the idea of the century! I could pack up the Marcou, and travel the country, from woodworker to woodworker, letting him/her try the plane out.
Lets see..... the pros and cons
Pros:
Meet new people
See the country
Eat that wonderful cooking all you guys brag about the wives doing
Become more famous than Rob Cosman or Derek Cohen
Become extremely proficient at sharpening plane irons
Talk shop with some great woodworkers
See some wonderful work by said great woodworkers to garner inspiration
Visit every mill and lumberyard along the way for something special to put in the wood "cache"
Cons:
Need bigger trailer to haul wood around the country
Need bigger trailer to haul all of that great "old iron" that's out there for next to nothing since there is none available in southern Mississippi.
Uh...that's it for the cons
All kidding aside Mel, when you actually put your hands on the plane, it changes how you view tool purchases altogether. You don't think about what it costs, you think about what could you do to afford it. Give up smoking, golf on saturdays, etc. And I'm not kidding about that either. There are some people that will ask you "you spent how much on that?" and you will reply "you just wouldn't understand". Philip's work is just that - until you get one of his planes in your hand - you just wouldn't understand. If I get up that way to my brother's in D.C., I will bring the plane for you to try out - if you're interested.
Now, I'm not doing the hard sell for Philip. I just wish there were more of his planes floating around in circulation so everyone could see exactly what I am talking about. He is at a slight disadvantage being on the other side of the globe - but notice I said slight, because when enough people get there hands on one.......
Oh well, enough rambling. I'm off to sell more cars....
Lee
Lee,
"I just wish there were more of his planes floating around in circulation so everyone could see exactly what I am talking about".
I am working on that, having recently eliminated a major marketing impediment as I suspect you well know.
When one considers that in the beginning it would take about 3 or4 weeks to produce one plane, but now I am at the stage of completing 4 smoothers in under 5 weeks one would say that there is an improvement. Especially as over this period from the beginning I have designed and made other models, made jigs and fixtures, learned a whole lot of stuff about metal working, acquired a surface grinder, learned how to see real close (that means "measure"), spent a lot of money on end mills and other expensive small tools, and got a lot more fussy about things along the way (which is time consuming). Oh yes, I also learned aspects of the fine art of rectifying mistakes , even turning them into a result better than the thing was intended to be in the first place....
The next step is classified information, but it will enable me to make (and sell) more and better planes in less time at less cost to me-so the price can come down a bit.
And I almost forgot: no plane stops along the way for any danged reason at all-it goes straight from me to the customers door step.
Philip Marcou
Lee,
No need to sell me on anything that Philip makes.You did say one thing that disturbs me. You talked about becoming more famous than Rob Cosman or Derek Cohen. I can see you becoming more famous than Rob Cosman, or even more famous than Thomas Lie Nielsen, or maybe even Thomas Chippendale, but not Derek Cohen. MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Well,
if your travels ever take you through the north central part of Indiana you are more than welcome to stop by and experience Philip's plane first hand...bring some boards...first hour's free...there'll also be some great beer and good food.
Neil
Neil,
I am glad to make your acquaintance. You sound like a fine woodworker and a true gentleman, just like Philip Marcou. In the last 64 years, I have not made it up to the North Central part of Indiana, but if I will be getting up there after I retire, I will let you know, and take you up on your offer. My return offer is genuine. If you find that you will be getting somewhere near Washington, DC, please give me a call. I live about 19 miles away in suburban Virginia. Our families will eat, talk and enjoy the afternoon, and you and I can swap some woodworking lies. If you bring the Markou plane, I will probably end up in a waist-deep pile before my arms fall off. Now that you have one of Philip's planes, you need one of Mike Wentzlof's saws. If you haven't run into Mike on Knots, you should.
You can see his website at:
http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/saws/index.htmlMike's Knots name is mwenz
Mike is as knowledgeable, helpful and friendly as a person can be. I am just getting into the use of hand tools. For decades, I have been a follower of the ways of His Norm-ness. As I have participated in Knots, I have gotten to know folks like Derek Cohen, Philip Marcou, Mike Wentzloff, and many other hand-tool afficianados. Now I am moving in that direction, though I'll probably never give up my jointer and thickness planer completely. Good to meet you. Thanks for writing. I hope we meet someday. That may be the only way I'll get to try one of Philip's planes. Of course, Philip says that he will be visiting the colonies in the future. If he comes to Washington, DC, I would be happy to set up a meeting with him and Washington Woodworkers Guild (WWG), where he could demonstrate his wares to the best woodworkers in this area. I would actually set up a joint meeting of the WWG, and Patina, the local group of tool afficianados. Have fun,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Thanks Mel,
I can't remember how I learned of Mike but I do own one of his dovetail saws as well as his large tenon saw (which took a bit of getting used to) that were copies of the ones found in the Seaton tool chest...great saws, both.
The invite will be taken seriously.
Neil
Mel
After all the compliments you have paid me, the very least I could do is invite you over to play with a Marcou plane, drink beer, fire up the barbie, and swap some lies. Now, if I could drag Mike and Phillip away from their respective workbenches we have the makings of a fine party (actually, if you read his posts you quickly conclude that all Mike does is drink coffee, and the truth is that Philip has this large antique machine he restored into which he pours brass and steel, that leads to a conveyer belt, and out the other end pops a new plane). Anyone else want to join in?
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek,
I have my own theory about the Marcou plane-making process. It involves some magic from the Dark Continent (his former abode) and use of his familiars (them pussycats) to call up helpers from Below. I am just hoping there are no human sacrifices involved.
This theory is borne-out by the hellish smell of the oil that comes on the planes and also the unnatural perfection of the engineering and performance, which only a demi-god could achieve, surely?
Anyway, one day there will have to be an accounting with Mephisto. Hopefully the planes won't dissolve in a puff of smoke as His Excellency is taken away for the soul-extraction and a (hopefully) light roasting.
Of course, he may himself be a demigod and I will be getting a bolt of lightning for my theorising. I best be off to the shed to get some more plane-pleasure first.
Lataxe, a culpable customer.
Definitely Lataxe is a most perspicacious gentleman when he states that a feline or two is involved in the process of churning out a plane. The rest of the formula is classified information at this stage, but see Mephistocles himself right here....Philip Marcou
philip,
Posing incognito as a cat again? Now I know part of the secret ingredient. <G>
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
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