I was trying to figure out how to do proper jointing yesterday, and after considering everything from a Rigid to a DeWalt hand power planer, I discovered Knots and opted for the Lie-Nielsen.
This, of course, required a far better vise. And intense modifications of things. You know how it goes.
Just thought the, excuse the generalization, communist anti-power-tool types would like to know that their propaganda department did an excellent job. Thanks, comrades.
Replies
I can't imagine you'll regret this. You may end up wanting a scrub plane, though (or something similarly able to scrub, like the #62 low-angle jack.)
Charlie
After only a day at it, all I can say or think is:
I've never seen wood behave like that.
Absolutely amazing.
I ummmm..... bet the shop was a bit quieter too..???
;)
good choice... though I'm holding out for the adjustable mouth version...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
It is definitely addictive.
Once you have the experience, the next time you're reading an article and see a guy flattening wood with a belt sander, you want to scream.
Yup! started jointing with a L-N #8
Nothing better. Lots of guys I know that have a power jointer, still use the hand plane to smooth the surface after they power jointed it
There is really no good substitute for a scrub plane. The progression that will make you the happiest is scrub first, jack second, jointer last (light cut). Depending on the length and width of the board, you might be able to skip the jointer.
You can go low angle on the bench planes, although I can't speak to their effectiveness first hand. My kit is in place and I about the only thing I buy these days are an occassional molding plane.
Using a jack plane as a substitute for the scrubber (I am assuming you always start your projects with rough-sawn lumber) needlessly protracts the milling process. A scrubber, winding sticks, and a long straightedge GET YOU TO FLAT (board not rocking/out of wind/no cup/no bow). The jack eases out the scrubber ridges and refines what we mean by "flatness." The jointer makes the board pretty much dead flat depending on how retentive you tend to be.
Milling rough-sawn lumber is a one-plane job only in theory. If you intend to do a lot of milling-by-hand, you will want these three planes.
Agreed; but to acquire the 3 planes you recommend--which I would love to have--would cost almost $1000. That's not much for a lifetime set of tools with no moving parts to wear out. But even justified that way, I genuinely don't have the $. That may be true for others as well. With this in mind, the L-N rep suggested the #62 as their most versatile plane. I woulod dearly love a scrub plane.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
A thousand bucks? No way.
ECE scrubber about $80 (new). Stanley or Record No. 7 about $150, Stanley or Record #5 a little less than $150.
http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm#chisel
L-N tools are nice, I have some, but plenty of woodworking got done before they arrived on the scene. I hate to see you wish your way out of hand tool woodworking.
I think Thomas Lie-Nielsen would heartily recommend that you buy old Stanley or Record instead of his products if the difference was you not doing any hand tool woodworking at all.
ECE for $80?.havent checked the Euro/$ difference lately have you. Those planes ( I have 3 ..a fore, a smoother and a jointer) while not quite as dear as LN they are close. If you opt for the ECE with the adjusting knob they are right up there with LN. Personally I prefer wooden bodied planes but I also have 3 LN and I will tell you that they are worth the money. Fine tool......Wicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
Hello CherryJohn. I was just at the Lee Valley website and saw the ECE scrub plane for $62.50. I would still buy the Lie-Nielsen though.
The ECE scrubber does not have the Primus adjusting mechanism that makes their other planes expensive. It has a wedge configuration.
Yes, it's only about $80 last time I checked which was after the dollar had weakened a good bit.
Check out David Warren Direct - he is the U.S. distributor for ECE. Always has an ad in the classified section of FW.
Oh--I thought we were speaking about L-N planes specifically. I agree that there are other ways to go; I use a dead flat LakeSide #7 that I got for $60 at a flea market, and a Stanley #6 that I got for $12 at a used tool store. Perfect condition except some rectopath painted the body red. I use 'em but the Lie-Nielsens feel special; and they drastically reduce the likelihood that I'll drift away from hand tools (a near impossibility at this point.) A wood plane is something that I lack, never really used one. Very curious about them. And I was going to point out that the E.C.E. scrub can be had for less than $70 at Lee Valley. And I plan to buy their shoulder plane--the medium one--tomorrow. Been waiting for that sucker, they've been out of them. What do you think of that idea? I have no plane that cuts all the way out to the edge.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
I have the ECE rebate plane and it's as good as any. I opted for the inexpensive wedged plane - no adjustment mechanism. The cutter is good quality steel and the plane sole was flat and square to the sides. There's not much that can go wrong with this plane. I like that. Simplicity is your friend in the shop.
Edited 1/18/2005 9:58 am ET by cstan
To consider $1000 for three planes assumes very deep pockets. That may well be the case, but if not one can find good fix-up old Stanleys of various sizes and types at antique malls and flea markets for $ 15 to $50. A Stanley 4 or 5 witdh the mouth filed open makes a fine scrubber. Good old Bed-rocks can be had for $100 to !50. Using this approach leaves some money to buy other goodies.
Tom
Tom....
With all due respect... having tried using my Stanley #5 with an aggressive camber as a scrub plane, I can assure you it doesn't come close when compared to the real McCoy... A 40 1/2 weighs about half as much, the blade's at least twice as thick, takes a cut at least 5x deeper and shapes a good sized board at least 20x faster... if I were to revert back to the #5 now, I'd end up causing myself another heart attack, killing the #5 in the process...
If you have to use an old Stanley or Record as a course jack, don't try to adapt it into something it's not; you'll get the worst of both worlds with the board, the tool and yourself all suffering as result.Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Your points are well taken, however!
The lumber I'm using comes fairly square as it is. The stuff I've been looking at, 4/4 s3 - and this is, and may well be restricted to, a St. Louis lumber phenomenon - is nearly there. I couldn't justify an entire machine, a Rigid, for example, for such a small task. I needed one side done very well, and I only needed to accomplish the task once every ten days.
There are five places I shop. Woodcraft, for some woods, has a very competitive price. Paduak at $4.95 a board foot is much better than what I've seen on-line. Zircote, Walnut, Bloodwood, etc., all have the same prices locally as the best I've found on-line, especially when shipping is included.
At any rate, while it's not yet a production type setup (it's getting closer), I've budgeted into my schedule the time to find good wood. As most of the decent stuff, again locally, seems to be fairly close S3, I needed it for a specific phenomenon.
This isn't to say I'm not getting any more L-Ns. The 4 1/2 is the next on the list, as being something to help replace the sandpaper portion after glueup.
The 4 1/2 is the next on the list
Very excellent choice. I would recommend getting the HA Frog at the same time._________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
I fully support the use of a plane for jointing. I bought a LN #8 recently. However, you say you need a much better vise! Well all you need is a quick clamp! I was recently at a plane workshop here in quebec, the guy used a piece of 2x4 with a wedge cut out to hold the board, the 2x4 is clamped to the bench top. There is also another method using 2 wooden clamps, however the 2x4 is so simple for jointing the edges of boards. look at the pictures on this page http://www.lamortaise.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=233&pos=7
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