Hi all,
Is there one twist/link belt better than the others? If so where is the best price? I’ve checked all the woodworking suppliers and they all seem to be the same just slightly different in price.
Thanks,
Eric
“When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die.” -Jim Elliot
Replies
There is only one manufacturer, Fenner, of the link belts you commonly see being recommended for upgrading woodworking machines, so it is safe to buy from the source with the best price.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
Thanks John! I appreciate it.
Eric"When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die." -Jim Elliot
After I answered your question about link belts, I did some research based on someone else's reply that mentioned a second brand. There is now a second manufacturer, so my original answer was incorrect.
A company called Jason Industries makes a version of a linked belt that appears to be very similar to the Fenner belt except for the color. I suspect that the patent has run out on the Fenner belts and there will be additional manufacturers in the future.
I've ordered a length of the Jason brand belts to try out here in the Fine Woodworking Shop and will probably write a review of them in the future. I know from experience that the Fenner belts, which are red in color, work very well.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
"I've ordered a length of the Jason brand belts to try out here in the Fine Woodworking Shop and will probably write a review of them in the future." Please give us a heads-up when the review's ready. Thanks, John!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG the accu-link have been available for a few years. A comparison of the two link belts can be read using the link below.
http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/link_belts/
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
I think I'll stick with the originals -- they last a long time, no need to penny-pinch, eh?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Harbor Freight has the Acculink for $13.99 for a 5' belt right now. Compare that to the Fenner belts at about $6 or more a foot = $30.00 That's more than just pennies to pinch.
Eric"When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die." -Jim Elliot
"Harbor Freight has the Acculink for $13.99 for a 5' belt right now. Compare that to the Fenner belts at about $6 or more a foot = $30.00 That's more than just pennies to pinch." True...maybe. I didn't realize there was that much of a difference, but depends on how long the belts (both versions) last. Also, much of the benefit of the link belt is related to lessened vibration, and I suspect the material and manufacture have alot to do with how good that characteristic is and how long it lasts.
It'll be interesting to hear from John! Too bad he can't do a longevity study. Oh, BTW, the Fenners can be found for less, but ya gotta dig to find 'em. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
John the accu-link belts have been available for a few years. I will be interested in reading your option of them in FWW. I am replying to FG with a link to a comparison between the accu-link & power-twist belts. I would suggest you not read the comparison as it may bias your review.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
How about including a good-quality solid belt in the trial? I'd be curious to see what differences were found.Pete
Pete,
As I've stated before, I'm a professional woodworker not a professional at machinery, but I'm learning and I do enjoy the learning process. It makes me a better woodworker when I see the whole picture of how the machine and the material work together. With that said, I too would like to see a comparison on the various types of belts. I think that for all of us our ultimate goal in tuning a machine is accuracy and elimination of vibration (which of course helps the accuracy). It would be interesting to see if one belt has a negligible difference over the others.
Just an update on the drill press. I got a bearing for a couple of bucks from the auto parts store. Still have the wobble. Have ordered a new pulley and shaft. Eric"When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die." -Jim Elliot
"If so where is the best price?" Years ago, I found a supplier who charged quite a bit less, but can I remember who? Of course not. I think it was more an industrial supplier than a WWing supplier. How many feet do you need to buy??
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I haven't added it all up yet, but I will for sure do my drill press and the 3 belts on the cabinet saw. Maybe the jointer also. I did find that Harbor Freight carries them, but do appear to be a different manufacturer as seen here.
http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/link_belts/
I found this after John had replied.
Eric"When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die." -Jim Elliot
Before all those pricey replacement belts, ask yourself what problems you need to solve. A solid belt in good shape will do a fine job, and some would argue a solid belt will do a better job. Hopefully everyone will avoid that debate here since it inevitably devolves into random data points like "my 14" Jet was working real bad 'til I got cool blocks, a link belt, and a 7 HP motor". The point is if it ain't broke, there's probably something else in the shop that is, so fix that first.Pete
Ahhh, jeez, can't put the toothpaste back. Putting a link belt on my Jet tablesaw, a Blue Dinosaur, practically transformed it (with no other changes whatsoever). Much better performance. Please point me to a place where I can read arguments that solid belts perform better than a link belt, 'cause I'm very curious to read them, experience the logic. Certainly not all machines would perform significantly better with a link belt, granted. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Search the OWWM archives. I believe the legendary Bob Vaughan is one of the detractors. I know it's hopeless and this thread will have 80 posts by tomorrow, but my point really was to fix what's broke rather before changing machines that work fine. If your machine had a belt that was shot, there's no question that a new belt would transform it.
Now that I've let the genie out of the bottle, should I cast doubt on cool blocks too? ;-)
Still running steel blocks,
Pete
Edited 3/10/2006 4:15 pm ET by PeteBradley
I suppose this is fixing a problem. I would like to put link belts on my drill press because I rarely change the speed of the drill since it is so hard to get enough slack on the belts. I often need to use a screw driver to get the first belt off and the second back on.
Rod
I'm a little confused by your post, Rod. Most drill presses have a tensioning device to allow repositioning the belt. A link belt won't be any different than a regular belt, you can't just open it up when it is under tension. Using a screw driver to pry a belt is a good way to poke an eye out or get your fingers pinched. A drill press normally only has one belt, are you saying yours has more?I agree with Pete. A link belt is a good belt but if someone sees a marked difference after adding one to a machine, the original belt must have been bad. I wouldn't waste my money putting link belts on a three belt cabinet saw. They can help with belt chatter on something like a contractor saw where the weight of the motor applies belt tension and a poor belt causes the motor to hop up and down. On a machine that has a belt tensioning device, the change should be minimal. I'd check pulley alignment and use a little belt dressing first.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Methinks we need the OP (Ecbntmkr - a man who doesn't believe in vowels, LOL) to let us know what kind of saw, at least, so this thread doesn't go tooooo far afield. Seem to be assumptions piling up about type of saw, whether the current belt is bad or not, yadayadayada.
Or, we could avoid that altogether by simply answering his original question. Wow, what an idea. ROFL ,insert smilie.
For the record, my Blue Dinosaur had a new hard belt in it when I replaced it with a link belt. Result was less vibration and less power draw, as evidenced by how the shop lights behaved on start-up. Wish I could comment on the 3-belt cabinet saw, but alas, not a tool I've had the pleasure of using. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG they work fine on my Unisaw and I have 2 (3L 3/8") on my Grizzly G0543 jointer. Check the link below for a constructive link belt discussion. I am about to try one on my Delta heavy duty shaper. They are directional and should be only used one way but since I rarely reverse my shaper cutter direction, why not. I love my link belts and red is my favorite color.
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-tools/messages?msg=7633.14
Also, I am considering a pellet stove for my workshop. Can you comment and do you have some cost estimates for pellet use?
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
Edited 3/11/2006 1:00 pm ET by JerryPacMan
"Also, I am considering a pellet stove for my workshop. Can you comment and do you have some cost estimates for pellet use?" Sorry, I missed this the first time around.
Well, the first thing I'd recommend is, don't get an old one like I did. Something on the control panel went out a few weeks after I bought it -- it's bound to happen -- and there's no way to replace it! The only thing the repairman could do was install a "timer block" to help run the auger. Cost nearly $300 for that! and the stove doesn't work near as well as it did with the original set-up.
OK, that out of the way...here are some details. My shop is 22x22, rather drafty, only partially insulated, and a semi-open area above the ceiling. It takes about one bag per day to keep it between 55° and 60° when the outside temp is around 32° Low and 45° High. To get it up to 65° it takes maybe 1/2 bag more. Remember, though, this is a very old stove. The new ones would have a better fan system I suspect. With this jury-rigged set-up I have now, it doesn't burn as efficiently and clean as it once did.
I really do like being able to just pour the pellets in the hopper and keep it running day and night. There's next-to-no waste. And no visible smoke. It's very environmentally friendly, waaaaayyyyyy more than a wood stove.
If you end up getting one, I'd be interested in knowing what model you buy. I don't know what's available out there for more utilitarian purchases (as opposed to a fancy painted one for a house). Any more ??'s feel free to ask. If you want info on how it worked in a bigger but very well insulated shop, I could put you in contact with the previous owner.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Sorry to hear the gear turned on you. I had been vicariously enjoying your upgraded heating system. Are you going to save up for a new pellet stove?My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
"Are you going to save up for a new pellet stove?" It's pretty far down on the list. We've sunk around $1,000 into this one (including the stove pipe), and it works, but with an aggravation factor I wasn't anticipating. I suspect I'll use it for 1 or 2 more seasons. In the meantime, I want to familiarize myself with the types that are out there for utilitarian use. The old-pellet-stove repair guy refurbishes stoves that people replace in their homes, so that's a possibility. The one I bought was made probably in the early 1980's and the company hasn't been in business for awhile. Parts are truly impossible to get.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I addressed my post to Ron. He is apparently prying off his drill press belts with a screwdriver. Although not the original poster, I was curious why he had to use this method.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Yep, and I'm really glad you asked about that drill press thing. It seemed as if he didn't know about the tension release knob.
The screwdriver approach is very scary. I tried it on a trailer hitch that was stuck, last summer. Came within 1/2" of stabbing myself in the eye with it. Family standards prevent me from quoting what came next. Stupid!
I mean to click "All" on that last post, and forgot. Sorry!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I do not have a vowel prejudice, my login starts with the letter "e". LOL To address the issues. I in no way want this to become a debate over which type of belt. I was just looking for some information. My original reason for posting was to address the problem with my drill press (see my post on drill press runout in the machinery tab for more). First the belts do need to be replaced. The old ones have a distinctive shape to them that they shouldn't have. Second, I am trying to address the issue of vibration in my DP. I have it narrowed down to the center pulley, but I don't know if it is the bearing, the pulley or the shaft (it spins fine but has a wobble). Whatever it is, I will correct it. I don't expect a link belt to correct all of the vibration, but if there is something out there that will reduce the last of it, after I fix the pulley, then I would do it. If someone has a different opinion and information to support it, I am willing to check it out. I did find an article where the author supported the use of good quality v-belts over link belts, but then finished the article listing the tools that he had installed link belts on. Huh? As for table saw, I have Jet cabinet saw that is 10 years old. The link belts on that are an afterthought. The saw is tuned up and runs fine, I'm just looking to get rid of the "whump" it makes when first turned on. I've read of several people who had the same problem that was cured by link belts.
Whew! I think that is all.
Eric"When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die." -Jim Elliot
I do use a link belt on my 4 speed DP. It is easy to change belt position because link belts stretch. BTW this is the first tool I tried link belts on.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
I'm just looking to get rid of the "whump" it makes when first turned on. Not only will it (probably) take care of that, but also any residual vibration as it spins down after turning off. Perhaps with your cabinet saw, that's not an issue, but with my Old Blue contractor saw, it definitely was.
Have fun, Mr. E <g>. I'm sure sorry I can't remember which company it was that had them for quite a bit less than most. If I find it before Monday, I'll let you know. Problem is, I'z a workin' girl on the weekends. :-(forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Eric, just a thought on your center pulley-if it is cast iron it may be out of balance due to voids in th casting-that is why the better stuff is balanced, which is eveidenced by those shallow drill holes sometimes seen.
Meanwhile I am wondering if those pellet stoves would work on rubber, as folk are tending to throw off their solid belts in favour of the fabled link belts .... Sorry, just a thought.Philip Marcou
Philip,
Thanks for your reply. I've tried to adjust the wobble in that center pulley off and on all weekend. The unbalanced casting makes sense to me. The bearing seems fine, the shaft shouldn't have anything to do with the wobble, it might make it run crooked, but I don't think wobble, so I was thinking the pulley needs to be replaced. Unless I can, as you have suggested that some have done, drill holes to balance it out. Is there a method for doing that other than random hole drilling?
As for the old belts...we had a fire at a tire recycling plant near here last summer and those things burned for weeks. So, if someone wants them for their stove I'd be happy to send them...course after a day of running it the thick black smoke might cause havoc on actually being able to see your tape measur, let alone read it.Eric"When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die." -Jim ElliotEdited 3/13/2006 6:54 am by Ecbntmkr
Edited 3/13/2006 6:54 am by Ecbntmkr
Your previous posts suggest that there is a lot of visible wobble. Is that correct? It would be difficult to get such a symptom through imbalance alone. You could get vibration, but the only way the pulley can move is if it's not restrained the way it's supposed to be. I noticed your other post and looked at the schematic for that machine at acetoolrepair.com. There's really not a lot to this assembly. I can't tell from the picture, but is the shaft solidly mounted in the machine or is its bracket free to swing? Does the pulley wobble in its axis (like a top before it falls over) or does it shake back and forth?If it's free to swing and the pulley doesn't wobble around its axis, I'd suspect there's nothing really wrong except old belts. If the pulley wobbles around its axis, the likely causes are:
1. Pully is severely worn or mismounted on shaft
2. Whatever mounts the pulley bracket and shaft to the machine is loose/worn out
3. Bearing is really trashed (more trashed than I would expect to be possible)
4. Bearing seized a while ago and it's now worn a groove in the shaft where the bearing used to mount.PeteEdited 3/13/2006 12:12 pm ET by PeteBradley
Edited 3/13/2006 12:30 pm ET by PeteBradley
Pete,
Thanks for your help with this. The bracket of the shaft is free to swing. It can swivel from front to back to allow you to place and replace the front belt. When I watch the pulley from the side while the pulley is spinning, whether by hand with no load or by motor, the pulley seems to have a high spot. When I rotate it slowly by hand I can actually watch one spot on the top rim of the pulley ride around higher than anything else. I thought that maybe it wasn't on quite straight on the bearing or the shaft, so I removed both and put them back together to try to correct it, but no luck. As to the other questions, everything else seems to be fine, the bearing looks, feels, and sounds ok. The shaft and its connecting point to the machine are tight with no play. And the bearing connection to the shaft and the pulley look good. I may just try new belts first and see if the problem is better because they are cheaper than a new pulley etc. Thanks again for you help. I feel much more comfortable making things with wood than trying to fix the machines, but I'm getting better at the machine end and it sure is satisfying to have a fine tuned piece of equipment.Eric"When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die." -Jim Elliot
Does the high spot affect all the sheaves, or only one speed? It would have been very easy for someone to bend the aluminum edge of the top sheave, for example by prying a belt out with a screwdriver. That would cause the belt to ride higher in the bent spot. If so, you might be able to *gently* bend out the dent.If the belts are old and stiff, they will have a tendency to pull that pulley back and forth also.Pete
Pete,
I checked the pulley again. No belts attached, gently spun by hand, the whole pulley wobbles as if it tilted slightly. From high spot to low spot I would guess the wobble to be about 1/8". Yes it effects every sheave. There is nothing to indicate that any damage has been done to the pulley and the pulley is cast not aluminum.
Thanks,
Eric"When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die." -Jim Elliot
This gets back to my question of what kind of a wobble it is. I think you're describing a wobble as if the pulley isn't straight on the shaft (so the top runout is in one direction when the bottom is in the other).
As near as I can tell from the schematic, the only thing that locates the pulley on the shaft is the bearing. It looks like the bearing is pressed directly into a bore in the pulley but not sure. Have you pulled the bracket, bearing, and pulley out and looked at it? Can you rock the pulley relative to the bracket? Is it possible that the bearing is not in the pulley straight? This would not be a good sign, since it would indicate that something is severely worn. Bearings are hardened, so, most likely it would be the pulley bore or the shaft.
How does the machine operate? The pulley will wiggle around a lot, but if it's not affecting the machine, just leaving it may be an option. This assembly looks pretty straightforward to service though, so it might be an interesting break from woodworking to fix it.
Pete
How long have you had the vibration in the drill press? If the pulley wobble has been there for as long as you've owned it. Then the bore for the bearing may have been made off axis. If you can't get a replacement, then press out the bearing and take it to a local bearing supplier(phone book)and they should be able to get one with a slightly larger outside diameter. Then find a machine shop that does repair work and have them rebore to fit the new bearing. And you're back in business. (This hinges on the pulley having enough meat to be machined over size.)If the problem developed over time then the bearing may not seated properly in the pulley. If the bore isn't damaged try to reseat the bearing with Loctite for bearing/bushings (or equivalent). If that doesn't work, it's the earlier suggestions.
QCInspector,
Thanks for your reply. The wobble seems to have become noticebly worse recently. Please read my posting to Pete above for the latest development.
Thanks,
Eric"When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die." -Jim Elliot
If you haven't ordered the bearings yet give your local bearing supplier a shot first. Why? Bearings are made to standard sizes that are universal. Designers try to avoid making special ones because of the cost, so they will almost always put stock ones in their products. It also allows them to shop around for price and keeps them from being stuck with one supplier that may up the price or fail to deliver on time.The local bearing supplier will also often be able to get you a better price than the OEM. How much better? I wanted front wheel bearings for my old import pickup. From the Dealer's Parts Department; $160.00 CAN for the 4 bearings. From the Local Bearing Supplier; $50.00 CAN for 4 bearings. Had a similar experience with Head stock bearings for a Rockwell Lathe years ago. Plus no shipping and usually in your hand when you leave. The choice is yours
Pete,
I think we agree upon what type of wobble it is. It seems almost slightly canted when spinning. The assembly is fairly simple. I have pulled it out and apart a couple of times. Now to the new news. I went out and tried to fiddle with it a little bit and a minute into it, the bearing started knocking. Ahah! The bearing seemed to have no play in it previously but maybe it was just on its way out and the wobble was the first sign. Either way, I am ordering a new bearing and will find out from there if I have fixed it. I may order a new pulley right away also. They're about $12 and I would hate to find out later that I need one and need to pay the "handling" fee twice.
Thanks again for your help,
Eric"When it comes time to die, make sure all you have to do is die." -Jim Elliot
Nice work! I would expect this beraring to be a very common size and thus cheap. Most likely the bearing is pressed into the pulley and slides over the shaft, though it's possible that it's a press fit on the shaft too. Your local big box store sells short lengths of pipe in a variety of diameters that you can use to tap the bearing into place. You want a diameter that bears only on the race you're trying to push, not the seal. Avoid situations that will press one race by applying a lot of force to the other. Outside of that, this is a straightforward application so you can't hurt it much.
Good luck!
Pete
I just put two link belts on my 50's Metal Wood bandsaw. They run great. Bet price was 24.99 from McMaster Carr for 5' of 1/2". Real Fenner belts too. Try them. If they don't work you have eliminated the belt from the equasion. They also sell sheaves...Edited 3/14/2006 1:27 pm ET by try50772
Edited 3/15/2006 10:44 pm ET by try50772
A link belt can be safely rolled on and off a pulley without damage to either component, so it becomes very simple to change speeds on a drill press. This is one of the link belt's big advantages on multi speed machines.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Wooodworking Magazine
Good link belt comparison etc, go tohttp://www.paragoncode.com/shop/link_belts/
http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/link_belts/ It's the same link that Jerry posted in #39, this thread.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 3/27/2006 12:08 pm by forestgirl
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