Hi everyone,
Sometime in the next week or 2 I’m going to do a complete tear down and rebuild on my unisaw.It’s been a few years and I want to do a thorough maintenance routine.While I’m at it I was considering instead of using new belts,changing them for link belts.
I’ve never used them before and am looking for some feedback on them.Have any of you used them in a unisaw,or if not in some other machine?What do you think of them?Are they worth the extra money?
Hopefully someone out there has put them in their unisaw and can tell me if they have made a difference.I’ve changed my belts twice since getting this saw,and one thing I’ve noticed is that after a while one of the 3 is always a bit looser than the other 2.I’m thinking that I could adjust this by removing a link when needed?
Thanks for any help,advice or experiences,
Brent
Replies
Brent; I have recently done the overhaul on my ancient Unisaw. I used the standard 3 belt system as originally supplied.I didnt consider the link belts at that time.I have read on some of the posts that 3 link belts are not required.
The 3 Vee belts should be purchased as a matched set.They will be oval in shape. If you place one atop the other to where they are all the same,and make a crayon mark across them,they will make a smooth running trio.
If you need parts you may do a google search for The Saw Center in Mass. The phone # is 413-734-2045.
I replaced the arbor assembly and now have a smooth running old saw.
Work Safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
Work safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
Pat,
Thanks for the contact info.Did you use Delta belts or jobber belts on your re-build?
Brent
I used all parts from the source that I noted,except for the bearings,which I bought from a local mill supply co.The saw center has parts for most any make of saw that you may find. If you contact them,they will send you a detailed sketch and parts list. The arbor on an old saw will sometimes show wear on the diameter caused by years of saw blade changes.I bought the arbor and flange as an assembled unit.
Work safely¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬Thank you,Mr.Croney,where ever you may be.
Work safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
Pat, I know the Saw Center well. They are about 10 miles from me and they mainly carry parts for Delta as their large tool line. There's a lot of other saws and tools they don't carry parts for. It's a pretty small place.
http://www.sawcenter.com/index.html
Thanks for the reply. I was judging from the info.listed on their web page.
Work safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬Thank you,Mr.Croney,where ever you may be.
Work safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
I would add my voice to those who advocate a set of 3 matched belts from Delta for your Unisaw. I don't even know if the link belts would work, since they are really designed to be used in single belt applications, such as a contractors saw. They do work very well for a two belt drill press, but that is because each belt functions independently.
I am not sure where you got the idea that power twist/loop type belts are "for single belt application primarily". They loop belt technology is actually a commercial/industrial "hand me down" to the consumer/small business environment. It is common to see applications where there may be 2 to 8 or more belts that were previously standard v belts now using loop belt technology. Think about it. IF the loop technology DOES, reduce vibration transmission, reduce friction power loss, extend belt life, etc. etc., then it would seem to make sense that if an application had SEVERAL belts replaced the consumer would reap SEVERAL times the benefits, unless there is some new law of science at work here.One of the "other" reasons I like the loop belts that seldom gets discussed is that the user can buy the belt technology in bulk and make lengths as required. I use a loop size that works for either A or B size v belts which covers everything I have that uses v belts. I buy it in 25 ft bulk length boxes at a discount that makes the cost per belt close to the same as that of v belts. This is in addition to the functional benefits anybody who trys the loop technology notice as soon as they instal it and as is discussed here on a regular basis.
You sound like you're reviewing old threads, looking to pick a fight. But I'm not going to bite. If someone is considering belt replacement for a Unisaw, which uses 3 matched belts, and if they want to try the link belts, I would suggest they call Delta Tech Services to see what they have to say, and then make a second call to the manufacturer of the link belts for their opinion.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Link belts work fine in a Unisaw. I have been using them for a few years and the saw definitely cuts better. IMHO a set of link belts are better matched than the rubber belts Delta sells. The link belts stretch some and since they are more flexible they fit better.
Also, gezzergeek stated some facts about link belts for multiple belts applications that is absolutely correct. He was just correcting some mis-information that was posted about link belts.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
I would like to take your word for it, but I would also check with Delta and the manufacturer of the link belts.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I am not sure why you concluded I was "looking for a fight" just because I discovered you spreading a bit of misinformation about the application of loop belt technology and asked you where you got your "facts" to support your comment.
I will admit to being a little sarcastic, which I am sometimes when confronted by messages people send on topics they have no firsthand experience with, but are willing to make statements as if they did. I have no issue with opinions, as long as qualified as such.
I really do think that sometimes people join forums with the intent of benefitting from the KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE of others.
I would be unfair to those who gathering information on the topic for the purpose of (hopefully) making a more informed decision if I kept quiet when the casual comment made implied it was made based on fact, which is simply the opposite of reality at least in this case.
If I was really looking for a fight I might challenge the numerous comments about the infamous "matched set" of three v belts to say that, I would be surprised if there were actually such a thing. I would agree that you likely can purchase 3 identical belts from the same manufacturer packaged together, but these are not likely to be any different than three of the same belts purchased separately. But since I didn't know for sure I didn't feel as if I should comment. I guess I had a hard time visualizing some person with a box of belts that were the same part number, length, type and manufacturer attempting to "match" three together. Granted you might find one that was simply out of spec, but that would be not used for anything and be considered defective and rejected.
So, I apologise Nikkiwood if my comment regarding the validity of your statement was intrepreted as a personal challenge to your integrity, that was certainly not the intent. I in no way intended to anger you or anyone, however I am still curious about the source of your information that resulted in your concluding that link belts were really intended for single belt applications. If in fact may have been influenced by statements from others in this or any other forum which were inaccuracte and not based on firsthand knowledge you have just made the point this post is all about.
I can also understand why you may have misintrepreted my limited posting as "looking for a fight" given my sometimes sarcastic writing style, nothing could be further from the truth. My few posts have always been because either of two reasons: 1) The discussion topic is one that I have personal first hand knowledge and believe I can add value to this topic by sharing those firsthand experiences in a post. or 2) The forum topic is one that I have limited or no firsthand knowledge in and thus my post would be asking a question with the hope of others sharing their first hand experience in a post that answers my question. I am sorry if the way I worded muy postings led you to believe there were any other reasons. I prefer to let HBO and Jerry Springer provide input on "fights", since my firsthand knowledge on that topic is skimpy at best....(OOPS!, There's that darn sarcasm again....)
Use X-cog type belts. Link belts are better for a contractor saw that has a motor suspended by gravity. Regular belts on a contractor saw develop a memory and it tends to make the motor hop which results in slipping when the motor hops up. Fixed pulleys like on a cabinet saw don't have the memory issue so it doesn't slip. Just buy three belts at the same time. No need to spend the money for matched belts. The saw will run fine on one belt. The three belts is overkill and Delta knows that. If they put a single belt pulley on folks would be up in arms thinking they are cheapening the saw. I used to work for an independent dealer as a tech and heard that from the regional sales rep. PM switched from 3 belts to 2 belts some years ago. If you look at the larger industrial panel saws you will find 7 and 9 hp motors and single belts. I just set up a Paolini 8' slider that has one belt and our Griggio has one belt. I had a SCMI 4' panel 7.5 hp that had one belt.
Rick,
Sorry, unfamiliar with X-Cog type belt.Is it the same as a standard v-belt or something different. I didn't think the 3 belts were neccessary, but good to have it confirmed by someone with your experience.
Thanks,
Brent
Cogged v belts offer the flexibility and heat dissipation needed for small-diameter pulleys. http://www.mcmaster.com page 941 for an example of a cogged belt
Thanks Rick
No experience with a Unisaw (but someday I hope). Link belts I've used do seem to make a difference in my contractor TS and band saw. I just put one on my jointer and that even helped with some of the vibration. I don't like paying the price (~$29 for 5 ft), but after it's in place I like that it's there, and the thought that if one of the links eventually does break, I can eaily replace it and get running again - though it's never happend yet.
-Gary
Gary,
Thanks for the input.From what Rick and Pat have said,I don't think I'll use link belts(unless someone else has had positive experience with them on a unisaw).But I might try them on my jointer and drill press.
Thanks,
Brent
I just put a link belt on my '70s sears drill press. The old (original!!) belt was disintegrating. I didn't know what to expect from the link belt and I was pleasantly surprised. When I turned it back on, it purred quietly. I'll replace all of my belts with link belts when the belts need replacing.
I agree with rick3ddd; get a set of good quality, raw-edge cogged belts. The manual recommends running them looser than most applications, and I run them even looser than they recommend, without any slippage that I can detect, and I'm still running the original (cheap) belts from ten years ago. By running them loose, you eliminate most of the belt-induced vibration, and the cogged belts don't hold a set as much as standard belts to start with.
As far as not needing three belts, I also agree, but it does allow you to run them looser for smooth operation, which is something Delta was trumpeting even in the early days. I've used Unisaws with two or even one belt, and never knew the difference until I went to change the blade (boss's attitude: we'll fix it when it stops running).
Just FYI, the PM66 now uses a pair of 3VX belts, which are narrower than 4L or A belts, but have much higher power transmission capability (for the same speed and pulley sizes). I believe the PM contractor saws use a single 3VX belt now, instead of the more common 4L or A belt.
Be seeing you...
You can use link belts in multiple belt applications.
I installed three of them on my Unisaw and they work
fine and my saw has never cut better. I also use 2 3L link-belts on my Grizzly G0543 jointer. Since you have a joint every 3/4" they stretch and conform very well when used in multiple belt applications. IMHO they excel when used in multiple belt applications.
Check the installation instructions in the link below.
Multiple belt use is discussed on page two, under installation, paragraph 7.
http://www.fennerindustrial.com/products/pdfs/ptpinstall.pdf
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
Jerry,
Thanks for the info.As in everything else in woodworking,ask 3 people a question and you'll get 3 different answers.It's good to get some feedback from someone who has actually used the link belts on a unisaw.It gives me more food for thought.
Brent
Now that I think about it, and hear someone has managed to use link belts in a multiple belt set up, I might change my mind. After all, you could count the links for each belt, and presumably all three belts would then be the same size. However, even though it might be possible, I would still order a matched set from Delta.
Yes, you need to count the links in each belt. Counting the links is easy as their is a directional arrow on every 10th link. Count the links twice as I have found that I miss count on occasion. Also, make them a link or two shorter than the belts you are replacing. Since they have a joint every 3/4" they stretch and need to be re-tightened after about an hour's use. I am looking at a spare Unisaw set that I have made and the diameters look the same to me. If I was not happy with the link belts on my Unisaw I would probably try two raw-edge cogged belts.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
Why spend the extra for link belts? Does your saw have vibration problems? The mass in a unisaw should be sufficient to minimize vibration and shouldn't require the link belt. If you have a lot of vibration-you probably have other problems. I'd go for a matched set.
Cheers-
Hi Fritz,
What's the cost of three matched belts versus three link belts? Is the difference significant?
Thanks,-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
The link type belts can be used almost anywhere a v belt was previously. However just like there are different size/width v belts there are also different link belt sizes as well. I use the link belts (Powertwist brand) everywhere I previously had v-belts for the following reasons: 1) Once tensioned they do not stretch 2) On everything I have used them on thus far it has reduced vibration and noise noticably 3) I buy new 25' boxes of powertwist bulk links at a very reasonable price off of ebay and I now have ONE box of links that can replace any of my machine belts instead of specific length belts for each application. (Previous to this,I usually discovered that the belt I couldn't find was of course the one I happened to need at that time, not any more...) If need be I can even "make" a new length belt by stealing and combining belts from multiple machines in a pinch. (Important to me since the closest store is 20 miles or more.) And lastly, 4) The power twist links seem to be impervious to most oils and solvents. Interestlingly enough all of the individuals who have said to me they "liked v-belts better",I discovered after further discussion, had not ever even used a link type belt otherwise they would have likely noticed how much better they are for running equipment. The link belt manufacturers also claim much longer belt life and better efficiency of power transmission. I have only used them for a couple of years so I have no basis for confirming or denying those claims. It does seem that the link belts require less tension for equivilent traction of a v-belt. The link belt systems have far more widespread usage in heavy industrial environments in the past and are just in the last few years being sold to and gaining acceptance in the consumer marketplace. My two bits worth on the subject, hope this helps. Joe.
Hey everybody First time on here and I found info on what I wanted. Can I put link belts on my 1979 34-761 Unisaw? I've got one on my lathe, works great, but I didn't know about multiple belt applications. but it sounds like it's an ok idea from what i've read, but now I've got another choice/problem, 1belt or 2 or 3? I'm gonna go try to find the link belts on e'bay like you mentioned. Allrighty then, thanks for everyone's opinion! Johnny R
Just playing devils advocate. If link belts are a superior method of power transmission, why doesn't Delta equip the Unisaw with them?
Grits
They cost more than rubber belts.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
I would guess it might be due to the same reason that they don't use a machined steel sheave instead of a cast iron sheave. Why do some saws come standard with a Bessimier fence and some do not. Why do others offer the Bessimier fence as an option, isn't their standard one good enough?IMHO, a manufacturer of equipment can easily justify changing a machine design or feature from a "poor or not accepted well by customer" function to a "very good or best in class" function, BUT to take a "very good" machine such as the unisaw and make it a "little bit better" unisaw will bring the lurking sceptics charging out of the shadows every time. Most unisaws are sold because they are unisaws not because of the type of belts they use, or what ripfence is installed. Do power twist type belts or T-Square type fences make unisaws better machines? Nah! People just buy them to be cool, for bragging rights or because they cost more than the original parts, same reaon people buy those gold plated miter gauges and low profile chrome casters, I think.
Good quality MATCHED V belts are designed for multiple sheave drives & will last for years.
I know of NO POWER TOOL Co. that recommends link belts for multi drive machines !
In fact I know of no tool company that has ever used them on a one belt new machine !
They were designed in the early century for assembled equipment that needed dissassembled to replace a belt.
DID YOU EVER SEE ONE FACTORY INSTALLED ON A AUTOMOBILE ??????
They have a place, but A quality V belt outranks themwoody/LUTHER
I have 3 on my cabinet saw, 2 on an 8" jointer, and 3 on a 15" planer. It's been that way for years and I'm sold on them. I tried the "quality matched set belts" in the past and I wouldn't waste my time with it again. A 25' box of 3/8 link belt is just under $100 at Graingers and goes a long way.
Bill
Where I find the link belt really superior is in my drill press, because I can just roll the belt up or down to change speeds, no need to loosen the pulley any more.I have it on my TS as well, frankly can't tell whether it is an improvement or not but there it is....RogerI'd rather be making cabinets and friends....
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