Has anybody tried one of the miter trimmers like the Lion Trimmer or one of the imported versions of the same. I was wondering if it is a better tool for trimming miters than a compound miter saw?
Thanks
Troy
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Replies
I have an American original Lion miter trimmer, maybe 6 or 7 years old. Hardly ever used it. Save your money and build a shooting board.
Tony Z.
Thanks for the reply I sometimes am tempted by things that I might not really need.Troy
I've had one for years, use it very seldom. But, heh, you should buy one....you can never have too many tools, needed or not!!!
Heavy cast iron tools with heavy sharp exposed blades are very tempting:)Troy
Yes and no.
If you keep the blade well honed and don't try to take to much of a bite at any one time (1/16th is a lot!) They can leave a ultra fine finished edge. I have experienced tear off when not used without a backer. Setting the wings for degree miters can be problematic but once done, they stay. They are heavy and take up a good deal of countertop.
More than a few commercial picture framers still use them. They are limited in amount of height they can chop. So are compounds but by a lot more!
I would look into bench miter with a plane. Much cheaper very accurate. Check out Derek Cohen's site,
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Setting%20Up%20and%20Using%20a%20Shooting%20Board4.html
You can get excellent miters on a compound miter as other here will attest. Again, depends on the set up and the quality of the blade.
I wouldn't buy it again - (the Lion) not because of quality but I use saws and planes more.
Now when it comes to crown mouldings....
Bon Chance
bb
I think for folks who make a lot of frames (like for art or photos), the lion would be a must have. But if you make furniture with an occassional miter, much less so. Depends what you do.
I've owned one for over the past fifteen years and love it. It's an old AMT version so believe it's an import but works like a champ. Anytime a 45 degree miter is necessary I drag it out and sometimes I use it to trim up 90 degree stock when cutting it on a miter saw or table saw would be too dangerous. To me using a miter trimmer is a lot faster than using a plane and shooting board.
The Lion Trimmer is a potentially DANGEROUS piece of equipment. I cut about 1/8" off one finger tip when moving the trimmer. It's like a guillotine blade. My bad. But nevertheless I now treat it with great respect. One careless move can be painful because the blades are large, very sharp and EXPOSED.Just a warning to those who have one and to those considering getting one.Greg
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Good point! I've cut myself twice with mine. Both times I inadvertently picked it up by the blade because the handle on it is so poorly designed. Luckily, the wound heeled quickly since it was a sharp cut but I still have the scar to remind me not to be so dumb.
Edited 8/27/2008 10:25 pm ET by mvflaim
It gives a very smooth accurate "trim". But You still need to cut stock to length.
I was trying to cut mitered corners on a Shopsmith with very little precision. So I bought the original Lion trimmer. I made some very tight corners with it. It is one of those specialty tools that if you make a lot of mitered corners, it would be a good investment.
I would not purchase one in place of my sliding compound miter saw. If I had to make a lot of mitered joints, I might use the miter saw to rough cut the joint and do the final trim on the Lion.
Greg
•••••••
Exo 35:30-35
Personally, I wouldn't use one. It's a specialty tool. Use the money to get a low angle jack plane and make yourself some shooting boards. There are many articles on them in the FWW online archives. And, you'll have a tool that can be used for more than just cleaning up miters. Heck, you don't even need a low angle jack. Use a No. 4, 5, 6, or block plane.
Once I learned how to use a shooting board, I never used a powered miter saw or table saw to cut miters again. I cut them rough with a backsaw and then clean them up with the shooting board and plane. I get beautiful, glass smooth miters every time (and I can get glass smooth square ends as well).
I'm reminded of those Red Stripe commercials, but instead of saying Hooray Beer (which I say quite a bit already), I say Hooray Planes!
Is that last bit corny enough?
matt
Sounds like I might need another plane:)Troy
If you've got a plane, then use the one you've got, especially if it's a bench plane. Although I'm a tool junkie, I never buy a tool until I absolutely can't do without it. That being said, I did finally break down and get a low angle jack to use as my shooting board plane. (Well it was a gift from my wife for 10 years of marriage.)Good luck.This is my personal signature.
Thanks it sounds like I should do a shooting board. I have a 12" compound miter saw and with a 96 tooth blade I get very smooth cuts. It sounds like the best thing would be make a shooting board if I want to make sure the miters are perfect. I am sure the planes I have would be fine but you never know:)Troy
Yeh, use your miter saw to make the cut and then use a shooting board to clean it up. I know others recommended sneaking up on the cut with a miter saw or table saw, but the problem with that is blade deflection. If a saw blade isn't adequately supported on both sides of the blade it can deflect toward the least supported side. Your miter might be 45 degrees, but its face won't be perpendicular. As for the planes, it doesn't cost anything to use what you have first.
Good luck.This is my personal signature.
Thanks although you could get in trouble for discouraging me from purchasing a new plane.Troy
Don't succumb to peer pressure.. buy a miter trimmer and join the Miter Trimmer Appreciation Society with me. http://www.MTAS.org
We are proud people although we do cut corners from time to time.
Very very funny.Troy
Why would that get me in trouble?This is my personal signature.
I used to manufacture moldings and sold chops from my shop. I had customers who owned professional choppers (WAY better than the hobby oriented Lion). I used only my Makita 10" chop saw. I got near perfect cuts with it. The Dewalt (12" chop saw)that I now own is better yet. I wouldn't take one of the professional choppers if someone gave it to me. The Lion is better though because it is smaller and would waste less space... still wasted space is... uuuummm wasteful... If someone offers you a free one just tell them "thanks but NO thanks". Some of my competitors had $6,000.00 to $8,000.00 motorized double miter saws (they are more now I think) and those really worked. If you can't justify that type of equipment you are better off just sticking with a commercial construction type chop saw.
Use sharp blades and cut with a slow steady feed rate. Chop slightly long (about 1/16") and then shave cut to exact length.
I had an ancient Fox miter machine in my shop. I gave it away.
I, too, had an older Lion miter trimmer. And I, too, got rid of it.
It worked all right, but I never used it once I bought a chopsaw and a good 80-tooth blade for it. Though the cuts I made with the chopbox weren't quite as glassy smooth as the ones I could make on the Lion, the miters went together just as nicely - and the whole operation took less time.
For the most part, I think modern technology (and an old one - shooting boards) have passed the Lion by, unless all you do all day is make picture frames. If you're a general practicioner, there might be better places to put your money.
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
The Lion trimmer is absolutely unnecessary. A sled on your table saw is the best way to go. I've been fixing and tuning machines professionally and a commercial frame shop uses Pistorius machines, sleds or a fixture on the RAS for octagons. Their German miter slicer sits on the corner gatheriong dust. The miter machines is much nicer than the Lion trimmer. If you want to work quiet the Lion or similar trimmer is better but you need to set up a fence and stop system to get the lengths the same.
The posters are corect in that if you're not a picture framer, a shooting board and a plane is cheaper and easier to store than a miter trimmer.
Since I make a lot of frames, the trimmer seemed like a good idea, so I bought one of the cheap imports. Really bad idea - the performance of one of these is heavily dependent on how accurately machined they are, and my chinese-speaking trimmer wasn't. I purchased an antique Lion made in the 50's - a superb machine, and a lot faster than a shooting board if you've got a lot of miters to do and require them to be perfect.
That said, in my opinion only picture frames deserve the attention of a trimmer or shooting board. The trimmers and/or shooting boards are not a substitute for accurate miter cuts using a table saw, compound miter saw, or manual miter box. For furniture components, the surface left behind by a saw blade is more than good enough.
I've been using mine this week. It has limited use. It doesn't cut a miter, it only trims it after a saw has made the cut. I was making glass stops for cabinet doors that have multiple lights. The glass stop moldings were only 1/8" by 1/4", much too small for a power saw. I had nine lights per door, two doors for 144 miters, half the pieces were 2 1/4" long. It is the perfect tool for work of this size. You can nibble the miter on such small pieces. On larger work pieces, the miter saw or the table saw does the job without the need for any additional work. If you cut your miters with a handsaw, you will find a shooting board or trimmer of use. With modern power tools, I don't have a use for either on most ordinary work.
One problem with the Lion trimmers, they are difficult to set up a length stop on. With picture framing, you have to have your opposing sides equal in length. It doesn't matter how accurate the miter is if you can't keep the lengths the same. Because the base and fences are metal, larger work pieces can slip as the blade slices and pulls. Although the Lion trimmer has large blades, you seldom use more than 3/4" of them. Repeated cuts in this area can dull the blade quickly. The trimmers are a specialty tool. They can't be beat when it comes to certain tasks but they aren't something that you would use, or need, for every day miter or trim work. I'm glad I have one but it sits on the shelf until I have a project that it is useful for.
Never pick one of these trimmers up by any method other than the handle. They are notorious for giving a quick and nasty deep cut. Just like allowing planer blades to slide out of a box into your hand, you can get cut to the bone in a second. Many folks that own one have had this experience.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Lion Trimmer is great
I never saw the reason to buy a Lion trimmer until I added cherry wainscot to my family room and rebuilt my kitchen cabinets. I used a 1/4" beveled trim piece surrounding the wainscot panels and 1/4" pieces are very finicky on the chop saw. Then there was the issue of going up the stairs with the wainscot and all those really odd angles. I looked at the import trimmers at Rockler and the Lion at Woodcraft and the Lion is hands down the better trimmer. I had several hundred corners to miter and I had it down to an art - cut the 1/4" trim with a diagonal cutter, trim the end to length with a few cuts on the trimmer and install the piece. Each cut is very fine - if done on a chop saw, the trim explodes on such a tiny piece.
I have used the trimmer on frames and I would not recommend the trimmer for such as it is expensive and a chop saw properly set can do the work faster and look just a good. For little pieces of framing such as my 1/4" trim pieces, the Lion is outstanding.
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