Replies

1. 
   desertrat | Aug 05, 2003 01:23am | #1

   Jan;

   Take a look at the HNT Gordon Planes at Highland, they're wood bodied planes, but very reasonably priced and some of them are available in kit form for considerably less.

   I'm totally convinced on wood bodies planes, even the ones without adjusters.  I've got a total of 9 planes right now (more to come when funds available) and 5 of them are wood bodied.  Once you get used to the method of adjustment (which doesn't take too long), they work great.

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Aug 05, 2003 02:47am | #2

   Hi Dick,

   I initially thought of the same.

   They work very well as a smoother, even on cranky grain, and will happily take shavings off end grain, Jan.

   Cheers,

   eddie

2. 
   AlanTurner | Aug 06, 2003 01:02am | #3

   The HNT GOrdon smoother is an amazing tool.  I am able with it to smooth curly maple with no tear-out.  And, the other day, just for fun and to test it a bit, I planed some thick walnut burl veneer, very highly figured, again with no tear-out.  I would not have beleived it could be done, but I did it.  It is not my skill, rather the quality f the plane.  the 1/4" iron does not chatter at all.  It is a real pleasure.  The crossbar is also a neat idea, and I am still learning it.  But on an edge, you can grip the plane with your hands in front of the iron, both above and below, and then your wrists rest on the crossbar, and at the end of the cut, when the front of the plane is off the edge of the stock, the wrists pressing down on the bar keep the back of the plane, and the iron, in full contact for a good finish.

   The LN low angle block is what I use on end grain, and you already have that.

   Alan

3. 
   ian | Aug 06, 2003 03:34pm | #4

   Alan, Eddie and Dick have suggested the HNT Gordon woden bodied planes.  I have two and like them.  I also have a LN low angle jack which I also like - I find it most useful for trimming ply where the slicing action really comes into its own.

   This which plane question pops up fairly often and is covered somewhat by Garrett Hack in The HandPlane Book.  FWIW, Garrett's recommendations for your first six hand planes are: 
   low angle block plane
   smoothing plane  (#4, #4.5, etc)
   Jack plane (#5)
   Jointer (#7 or #8)
   Rabbet plane
   hand held scrapers

   In your case you already have a LN low angle block - one very nice plane especially for end grain
   a Stanley #6 - which can be used as both a Jack and a shortish jointer.

   If you must get an iron plane, my suggestion is to consider a LN #4 or #4.5 with a high angle frog, or get onto Patrick Leach's monthly email tool list through http://www.supertool.com  Patrick usually has a wide range of older tools for sale for considerably less than a new LN. 

1. 
   Jan_M | Aug 06, 2003 05:16pm | #5

   I am a liittle worried about getting a wooden plane because of what humidity changes will do to both mouth and sole, plus I really like the feel and weight of the iron. I've never used a wooden so I am kind of sceptical.

   I have Garret Hack's book and have seen the list of planes to get so that is why I am considering some sort of smoother. My first choice was a 4 1/2 but I reallized that I needed something a little bigger and heftier for shooting endgrain than my block plane hence my question.

   Ideally I'd get both the 4 1/2 and the 164. My original thinking was maybe I could kill two birds with one stone and still come out cheaper than the 4 1/2. I really like the throat adjustment on the 164 very fast and tool free and changing to the extra blade as mentioned in my earlier post for when grain gets tough would only be a minor inconvenience.

   Jan

1. 
   ian | Aug 07, 2003 04:04am | #6

   Jan, I'll let someone like Eddie respond to your concern re the effects of humidy on a wooden plane's mouth and sole.  My own view is that the woods used by Terry Gordon are kilm dry and so dense that you have to leave the plane in a bucket of water before moisture starts to have an effect. 

   If you're looking for a "do everything" iron plane I'd suggest a LN #9 or equivalent old Stanley - they're not cheap but they have the mass to be good smoother and are unsurpassed when used with a shooting board.  My own view is that a #164 is too light to be a good smoother - in November 2000 I was lucky enough to be able to visit the LN works and do a side by side comparision of the #4, #4.5, #164 and #112.   I finally settled on the #4.5 'cause of it's greater mass.   Which LN low angle block plane do you have?  Is it a #102 or a #60.5?  I've a [UK] Stanley 60.5 and find it plenty hefty enough for end grain work.  FWIW my suggestion would be get a #4 or #4.5 smoother.  If you need to shoot a lot of end grain, say on the ends of a table top work from both sides with your #6 - I've found a sharp finely set #6 to work better than a block plane when cutting across the grain to champer the ends of a table top.

1. 
   Jan_M | Aug 07, 2003 04:59am | #7

   I have the 60.5 which I love BTW. I think that I am probably leaning towards the 4.5, which was my gut feeling before posting, but I'll wait to see if I get any more responses. The 9 is definately on my to buy list. I'm just starting to get into hand planes and before long I think I'll be plane junkie. I sometimes go down to the shop just to make some shavings for no reason. I must be crazy...

   Jan 

1. 
   BG | Aug 08, 2003 02:59am | #11

   Jan,

   I have been trying to find a link to an article I read about 2 months ago where they evaluated various planes on highly configured wood.  The prices of the planes varied quite a bit...a few hundred dollars to thousands.  As you might imagine, the most expensive model came out head and shoulders above the rest...primarily because of their responsivenes to adjustments.  Surprisingly, the Vertitas came out as well if not better than the LN 4.5  Wish I could find the article, sorry

   The other detail I remember..a 60 degree for highly configured wood was a must...

   Edited 8/7/2003 8:00:17 PM ET by BG

2. 
   Mainemarc | Aug 08, 2003 03:39pm | #12

   BG, and others,

   By BG's description, I think the article he was referring to is Lyn J. Mangiameli's high-angle smoother comparison from the old Badger Pond site.  It's now in the BP archives at Woodcentral, and is an excellent treatise on the subject.

   http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/haspc.shtml

   Marc

3. 
   BG | Aug 08, 2003 04:25pm | #13

   marcmaine.

   Your correct...that is the article I was referring to.  Thanks

4. 
   lwilliams | Aug 08, 2003 06:00pm | #14

   Lost from those archives is another, and I think better, article on the subject. It was written by a machinist/tool and die maker who's an accomplished woodworker.

   You might ask there if anyone has saved Paul Jordan's comparison of Lee Valley's smoothing plane to a large selection of other smooth planes. Paul Jordan's article is more balanced and his lack of infill worship disorder allowed him to give a less subjective assessment. All such articles require a high degree of subjective judgements. Usually though, writers don't work as hard as Lyn Mangiameli to make the subjective look scientific.

2. 
   AlanTurner | Aug 07, 2003 02:58pm | #8

   My HNT Gordon is only about 2 months old.  When it arrived, the sole was out of flat by a few thousandths.  I was concerned, so I traded emails with Terry Gordon, got his permission to flatten the sole and still be able to return it to Highland, and then lapped the sole on some 220 grit PSA on my jointer table.  Took all of about 5 passes.  It was perfect.  Gordon says you might have to do this occassionally.  Not too much, though, as you don't want to widen the mouth.  It is the tight mough, and the thick blade, which prevents tearout, I believe.

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Aug 07, 2003 04:10pm | #9

   Hi S4S,

   I've had to do this to the sole of one jointer that I have from HNT Gordon, never since..  The wood is fairly stable, so once it adjusts to your ambient humidity, eqm moisture content, it should stay there.

   Cheers,

   eddie

1. 
   AlanTurner | Aug 07, 2003 09:42pm | #10

   That's what I expect also, but the humidity in Philadelphia is very high in the summer, and the shop is in  a heated basement, so there is quite a swing, winter to summer.  We'll just have to see, in or about November or so.

   Alan

4. 
   kingfurn1 | Aug 09, 2003 08:05am | #15

   Why not make your own? That's right make your own wooden boddied hand plane. James Krenov has pioneered this recently and I am suprised no one has sugested it untill now. there is an oustanding resource in the form of David Finck's "Making and Mastering Wood Planes." It's a step by step process that allows you to make a custom hand plane start to finish. It helped me and the rresults have spoken for themselves. Check it out. You won't be dissapointed.

1. 
   rckendall | Aug 09, 2003 03:52pm | #16

   As long as we are now talking about making planes, I'll throw in that The Japan Woodworker offers a wooden plane kit, complete with Hock blade and chip breaker. It has an ironbark sole and hard maple body.

   It was not too much work to put together and quite a bit can be learned from the experience.

   Richard