I’m interested in learning to hand-cut dovetails. I have been using a poor-quality Stanley backsaw and am ready to step up to a high-quality european backsaw. I’ve been reading this forum and have decided on doing one of three things:
1. New LN Independence DT saw
2. New Adria DT Saw
3. Gettting a used Dissiden saw on Ebay and sending it in to be set and sharpened.
I’m currently leaning towards the Adria saw because of its one-year warrentee over the LN saw and because I’m concerned about learning on a used saw that may or may not be cutting well (I wouldn’t know if it was cutting poorly).
Has anyone compared the Adria saw to the LN saw? Any thoughts on which is better?
Replies
I have the L-N. I doubt there's a ton of difference. Both saws are good and I've seen plenty of posts on this board and others singing praises for both.
Buy one and start cutting dovetails.
One warning - you will be surprised at how much successful dovetailing depends on your technique and not your tools. However, using a good saw will at least let you know you can't blame it on the tool.
I tried the L-N at a recent show and really didn't care for it (Blasphemy!) But then, I vastly prefer a japanese style of saw that cuts on the pull. Within that rubric I vastly prefer to use rip teeth for hand cutting dovetails. It is mostly a ripping operation after all. I have not gotten this accomplished, but I plan to buy a rip dozuki eventually; for now, I'm using the rip side of a ryoba.
Do not put ANY downward pressure on the saw as you start the cut, or the teeth will dig in and make it hard to get a straight cut. Actually, I find that only the lightest pressure can be applied even once I am within the kerf, or i will be knocked off the line. Hold your index finger along the top of the blade; that helps me stay straight. Get your chisels SHARP. Layout in a size that matches your chisels. Practice on old pine boards; it takes a while to get the hang of but it's fun and relaxing learning.
Charlie
Alright. now I am more confused. I thought a backsaw did cut on the pull-stroke. Am I wrong about this?
My old Disston and somewhat newer English backsaws cut on the push stroke.FWIW, the Disston cast steel blade holds up fairly well, but does require more frequent sharpening than the newer English one.Leon Jester, Roanoke VA
"I thought a backsaw did cut on the pull-stroke. Am I wrong about this?"Well, yeah, I guess you are. A western-style backsaw has a reinforced spine along the side of the blade opposite the teeth, and cuts when pushed. Japanese saws cut on the pull. Some have a reinforcement on them like a western backsaw, and are called dozuki. Others have no such reinforcement; one of the more common of these is a ryoba which has crosscut teeth on one side and rip teeth on the other. These saws have very thin blades, made possible by the fact that when the saw is cutting it is being pulled; this tensions the blade and keeps it from buckling. The difference is considerable, but different folks generally find one or the other type preferable.CharlieCharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
A 4th alternative:
Purchase Tom Law's excellent video "Hand Saw Sharpening" (1998 ALP Productions) and a few tools and you'll be able to keep all of your [Western-style] saws in tip-top condition, irrespective of who manufactured them.
I predict you'll be pleased and amazed at how well your "poor-quality Stanley backsaw" performs once you tune it up properly.
Good luck,
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
What tools would I need to buy in addition to the video?
You'd need to buy triangular files sized to fit the saws you're sharpening (e.g., one for dovetail saws, and another for full-size carpentry saws), a flat file to joint the teeth, and a suitably sized saw set. You can make a vice to hold your saw steady while you file the teeth from some hardwood scrap and hinges; all told, you'll probably have to spend about the same amount on tools as you will for the video.
If you're my age, you may want to invest in one of the magnifying lenses that you strap to your forehead, and a lamp with which you can illuminate the saw blade while you're sharpening.
Good luck,
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
ummm,
Here's the way it works. Learning to cut dovetails is all about good process and good technique and takes practice. The LN, and I'm sure the Adria also, provide excellent feedback on your technique....it will tell you if it's being held improperly...if your twisting the cut...all of this shows up in the finished product. My process and technique is a combination of Ian Kirby (great book) and two others, whatever, you'll evolve your own solution.
The point I'm making is once you develope this relationship and confidence with a specific hand saw you'll use it for all your joinery...why not...you'll want the same accuracy as a dovetail joint. So buy new, either one, and let the learning curve and long term relationship begin.
I took a dovetailing class last summer and brought my L-N rip and cross saws with me. The instructor handed me a Zona saw and I put the L-N saws back into my tool box and made really nice dovetails all weekend long.
Look for a Razor Saw, Fine Kerf, 35-500 32 tpi Fine Kerf Razor Saw. Really expensive at about $7.00.
I still use the L-N saws, but the learning curve for dovetailing was a lot shorter with the Zona saw.
_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
I have a Lie-Nieslen DT saw and it is very nice. I also have an $11 gent's style saw of questionable origin which has been tuned up and the set reduced slightly and it works just as well. Have fun.
Stephen J. Gaal
Yes to the cheap gents saw (although mine is german and has a slightly chewed handle from a young pup). The only reason that I changed was that I got sick of sharpening it in the middle of jobs useing mountain ash. I now have a PAX that has teeth I can bearly see and dont have a suitable set. Hasn't needed sharpening yet but will probably have to send it out. Really nice saw, although I am not used to the slightly top-heavy feel compared with the smaller gents saw.
I bought the French-made back saw sold by Garrett-Wade and couldn't get it to track straight. Thought it was my poor technique. Finally someone who knew what the saw should do took a look at it and stoned off the set. Voila! The set had been uneven, not me.
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