I posted a few weeks back about the progression of planes to purchase. Well, last week I was able to purchase an entire shop from a guy which included, amongst many other things, a collection of Lie Nielson planes. These are all new and unused. The problem is, I cannot keep them all – part of the deal with my wife over the purchase requires that I sell enough to recoup a decent chunk of the price. So here I am, basically never having used a decent plane in my life, I now own 25 of them (I know, its a good problem to have).
I am keeping my #5 Jack plane, a #8 Jointer, Low angle block plane (#103), Medium and small shoulder plane, chisel plane.
Questions:
4, 4 1/2 or a 164 smooth plane
Keep the standard #5 jack, or switch it with a Low Angle Jack?
I have the 102 and 103 LA block planes, as well as the standard and LA adjustable block planes – which of these to keep?
I primarly will be making mission style furniture and I have a jointer and a planer to do my initial cuts.
Thanks
Replies
I'm fairly new, so take this in context-- I've spent the last two weeks getting intimate with hand planes for several hours a day. I've bought a number of planes recently, so here's what I think.
I've found that I'm partial to Bailey bevel-down planes. I have a better feel for how they are impacting the surface of the wood. I get more feedback through the handle, and it can lead me toward whether I need more or less pressure, or whether I should approach a problem area with a straight attack or a diagonal attack. I also like having the chipbreaker to rest my index finger against while planing.
The thing I most appreciate about the bevel up planes (low angle) is that the mouth is more easily adjusted. But the bevel down planes have the iron adjuster knob in a better location, and I use that more frequently.
I have a #4, and I love it, but I also have a 50 degree high-angle frog installed, which I've come to feel is highly beneficial on a smoothing plane-- less tearout. The 4 1/2 is a great plane, too, and you can pick up a high-angle frog from LN. it comes down to what your needs are-- If you're doing large surfaces, like tabletops, the # 4 1/2 is better. It's heavier and wider, many prefer that, but I like the feel of the #4. Unless the #4 is bronze, you will get more money for the #4 1/2.
I would keep the #5 standard jack. I love this plane. I've found this plane can pretty much do it all by itself, if you were stranded on a desert island with only one plane-- pick this one. It shines when making deep cuts, but is also a fine smoothing plane, and it can even do the work of a jointer, if you work carefully. Like the name implies, it's a jack of all trades.
The three planes you most need are a #5 or #6 for course work, a #7 or #8 for medium passes (evening the work), and a #4 or #4 1/2 for smoothing. Those three areas, course, medium and fine are the way the plane system works. Which of these you prefer is up to preference, but you do need one plane for each of the three purposes.
Sounds like you're pretty well set up, and I'm envious of your #8. You have a fun decision to make.
If I were in your shoes, I'd get a decent block of wood, and try the different planes and decide which work best for you, then sell what you don't like.
I won't comment on the block planes. I just don't have enough experience, so I'll leave that for more experienced minds (and hands).
Good Luck!
Michael
Sounds like a rags to riches story.
My suggestion would be to make a complete list of the planes you acquired, along with the price you paid for them (i.e. some fraction of the total), and then go to the LN site to get current retail prices for each. Read the descriptions and list the primary purpose of each plane on your list. That way, you can see and compare the functional overlap between the different models more easily, and make choices accordingly.
For example, a rabbet block plane can do the job of a regular block plane, a rabbet plane, and a shoulder plane in many cases. It won't, however, clean up a dado like a shoulder plane. So, depending on how you cut dados, the choices become more obvious.
In terms the wife can more easily identify with, planes are kinda like shoes. A black shoe can do the job of red shoes, sometimes brown shoes (depending on how you feel about mixing black and brown), and blue shoes. Sometimes, though, you just need a pair of red shoes.
You've stumbled into a complete set of shoes, and high-quality ones, at that. Sell the ones that are of odd color, but try to keep the others. You'll eventually need them anyway, and will be forced to pay full retail at that point. ("Honey, just look at how much we saved!") ;-)
Lee:
You have just opened a huge can of worms. The best advice is to get several different wood samples (species that you plan to use), sharpen each plane and take them for test drives. Decide which planes work best for you and sell the others. Here is my two cents on what choices you have.
"I am keeping my #5 Jack plane, a #8 Jointer, Low angle block plane (#103), Medium and small shoulder plane, chisel plane." Absolutely, keep these.
Bevel up planes are great smoothers and for working endgrain, but not so great for removing a lot of wood quickly. I own a LN #4 with a 50 degree frog and the LN #164 bevel up smoother. The #164 is by far the better smoothing plane in my book (also better than the #4 1/2). With additional irons sharpened with steeper bevels, I can match the angle of attack to the wood (37 degrees up to 60 degrees). Try out all three planes on various boards and pick the one that works best for you. But do try the #164 with a steeper bevel, say 40 degrees to get a real feel for how the plane performs at high angles.
The low angle jack and the #5 are not the same tool, nor interchangeable in my book. I would definitely keep the #5 for heavier stock removal, but this is the plane I first learned to use 40 years ago. The low angle jack also makes a great smoother, I use mine as a panel plane. If you plan to build larger pieces the low angle jack will end up being your go to smoother. By the way, it works just fine smoothing smaller pieces as well so you may want to consider keeping it as your go to smoothing plane rather than the #4, #4 1/2, or the #164 (the same advice about multiple irons sharpened with steeper bevels applies). I have found the low angle jack to be a great plane for squaring up boards less than 3 feet in length as well. Plus the low angle jack is a good shooting board plane. So, I would keep both the #5 and the low angle jack. (If you need the money, you could always sell the LN #5 and get a vintage Stanley #5 to replace it.)
Block planes. I would keep the low angle ones and sell the standard angles (for the same reasons I would keep the bevel up jack and smoother).
I'm sure you are going to get a lot of other advice, some totally contradictory to mine. That is because hand plane preferences are subjective. That is why I said the best advice is to use all of the planes for several different tasks and keep the ones that you find work best for you. Good luck.
gdblake
As far as block planes are concerned, the 102 is my constant companion. It's always within reach in the shop, it's in my pocket at the lumberyard, and when I'm out doing carpentry, there's a spot for it in my apron. It would sleep under my pillow if my wife allowed it.
I also have the adjustable-mouth version of it (60 1/2), which I rarely use, so attached am I to my versatile little bronze beauty.
Here is a picture for anyone interested.
That's right... rub it in!
As the short guy used to say on "Fantasy Island", "The plane! The plane!" ;-)
Nice boxes, though.
I would keep either the 4 or the 4 1/2. I have the LN #4 and like it a lot and use it anytime I can find an excuse. I have the 50 degree frog in it and have not ever put the original frog back in. I think with the 4 1/2 you can use 3 different frogs if you really like messing with frogs. I would keep a 4 or 4 1/2 a 7 or 8 and various block planes, I use my low angle LN block plane more than the other block planes. I have several jack planes but don't use them as much as the 4 & the 7. If one of the LN's you got is a chisel plane I would get rid of it before some of the others. Just my experiance I have the LN large chisel plane and have never liked it that much. Of course others may say different and your milage may vary.
Good luck
Troy
Lee,
Just how rich are you?
How much did you spend to buy this guy's shop?
You must have a lot of spare cash lying around. Most of us never buy more than ten Lie Nielsens at a time. A lot of us actually think before buying a single Lie Nielsen. You bought a whole herd of them without giving a thought to what you would do with them.
It is folks like you who will bring the United States out of its current economic doldrums. We need people who spend and then ask questions. You are the future of the world. I hope there are thousands more like you out there.
Would you like to buy my shop?
Mel
My advice would be to keep them all.
Renegotiate with the wife, work overtime, borrow from your brother, or sell some of that junk in your basement on e-bay - but keep them!
There will come a time when you're working in your shop on a project and you'll say to yourself "Dang!, I wish I'd kept that bevel up jack." Or, "I sure coulda used those 3/8 skew chisels on those half-blind dovetails." Or, you'll discover how more expensive it is to buy the large shoulder plane for $250.00 plus shipping when you sold it to some guy for $200.00.
I speak from experience, my friend.
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