Replies

1. 
   Routerman | Oct 17, 2004 05:42pm | #1

   Another cutter robbed from the shaper inventory, made to look easy.

   More contrarian remarks, some tips, at the FAQ link, no.10

2. 
   nikkiwood | Oct 17, 2004 06:12pm | #2

   This bit is easy enough to use if the strips are wide enough.

   However, it is pretty much impossible when it comes to the application you describe. I think you probably have to consider building some sort of sled/jig to hold the pieces.

   I remember seeing an article in FWW where the guy devised such a sled. It worked, but it seemed fairly complicated to me. I don't have the reference handy, but I would be willing to make an effort to track down the issue if you think it might be helpful.

3. 
   forestgirl | Oct 17, 2004 07:27pm | #3

   Traveler, what specific problem are you running into?  I've used the LMB a couple of times, and it can be a royal PITA to set up, but you don't indicate whether you're having trouble with the set-up per se or trouble getting the stock to cut consistently.  Since your pieces are so long (I'm assuming 30 inches, not 30 feet, as indicated <g>), even if you get it set up correctly, as tested on short stock, I can see where you could still run into problems.  Details?

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

4. 
   CharlieP | Oct 18, 2004 08:07am | #4

   I made 7 boxes today with mine, cuting end grain - at least you will be working with edge grain.  It is a totally unforgiving bit, and alignment is critical. 

   The stock must all be perfectly straight and square, and all must be exactly the same thickness. 

   First adjust the height of the bit - test on two boards, both flat on the table.  You will know you have the height of the bit right when you can flip one of the boards, and join them with a perfect fit.  Half of your cuts will be flat on the table, but do the fence adjustment next. 

   Adjusting the fence for the boards cut along the fence is easier (keeping the same depth setting on the router) since you can sneak up on the fence position - go just until the bit cuts the full width of the board. 

   If any board isn't square to the fence and tight to the table, you will have the opportunity to make a replacement!  You can't recut like you can with a roundover bit that came loose from the work. 

   Good luck.  Be sure to shut the door for the first few cuts - don't want the neighbors to learn those strong words.  I wasted a lot of wood until I learned just how straight and square and precisely adjusted it had to be!

   ________________________
   Charlie Plesums  Austin, Texas
   http://www.plesums.com/wood

1. 
   nikkiwood | Oct 18, 2004 04:32pm | #5

   Charlie,

   But this guy is trying to use the lock mitre for 2" strips -- I assume for the quadralinear legs Stickley used for tables and chairs.

   Don't you have to use some sort of jig/sled for narrow strips?

1. 
   CharlieP | Oct 18, 2004 05:03pm | #6

   Quote:  "Don't you have to use some sort of jig/sled for narrow strips?"

   Good point.  You don't get a second chance with this bit, so a jig of some sort would probably be a good idea.  I have a monster hold-down and push block that I use to keep my pieces square and tight against the fence and table, and I am dealing with pieces typically 3/8 inch thick and only a couple inches long.  ________________________Charlie Plesums  Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood

5. 
   RickL | Oct 18, 2004 06:53pm | #7

   My question is why do you need this bit? In 35 years of woodworking the only real need for this type of joint I've run across is on 3 sided box beams and we use a moulder as the boards are 10' and over. I've seen the hobby mag articles on making the Sickley legs that way and I figure the router bit companies are paying the magazines to sell a bit that isn't even really necessary to own. That and the infamous gluejoint bit.

   You could just use the packing tape technique to glue up mitered strips.

1. 
   yotonyb | Oct 18, 2004 08:46pm | #8

   Question for the group who HAVE used this bit...do you rip (or crosscut, Charlie) the 45 degree cut on the tablesaw then finish with the bit?  Or do you allow the bit to cut the entire profile in one pass?

   traveler... I've used the bit on some short, 1/2" thick panels (which were mounted in a custom carrier), and the resulting joint was tight and effective.  The set-up was completed EXACTLY as Charlie described -- check the height by inverting the pieces until they slide together, then sneak up on the fence adjustment.  I think the carrier is the safest way to go for the size of the pieces you're working with.  As Charlie pointed out: start square, finish square.  The carrier might be the safest way to achieve the best result.  Alternately, a good featherboard system or hold-down and an appropriate push stick would be the next best solution.

   As an aside, I've been witness to four shop "incidents."  Two of them involved this bit.  It's nearly invisible at speed, and on thicker material it does project a ways away from the the fence.  So I have an even greater respect for safety in the use of the lock-miter bit.  That's why I endorse the idea of a carrier.

   On furniture with legs up to 2-1/4"x2-1/4", I've used solid wood with the best q-sawn face out, and kept the plain faces to the sides...unless reproducing an arts-and-crafts original that called for a specific orientation.  If four q-sawn faces were required, I've made my own veneers 1/8" to 3/16" thick for the plain faces and adjusted the dimensions of the solid leg to achieve a foursquare piece at the correct final dimension.

   I avoided the lock miter solution for legs under 2-1/4" because the originals used a solid leg or a veneer and I was aiming for a true reproduction.  I also felt the time required to achieve the best result wasn't justified.  I wasn't comfortable with the idea for free-handing the pieces past the bit, both for safety and for best results.  However, having seen the carrier, I might be inclined to try it.  I think once I had the set-up correct, I'd spend the entire day making legs!

   I'm with you on this because it's a production technique used on the larger pieces (full size settles) with 3"x3" legs, and surprisingly, the few that I've seen have held up pretty well.  I have tried time-and-again to make the profile that Stickley favored, but have NEVER been able to achieve consistent results.  I attribute that to the equipment I'm using (it's not my own), and my inability to get the 45's dead perfect, or to make complementary cuts that totalled 90 degrees.  But I will keep trying...one day I'll discover the required method of work and get it right!

   tony b.

   Edited 10/18/2004 2:43 pm ET by YOTONYB

1. 
   CharlieP | Oct 18, 2004 09:19pm | #10

   My wood is thin (about 3/8 inch), so I do the entire cut on the router.  If we were talking 3/4 inch thick wood (4 times the volume to remove), I might miter first  to reduce the cutting load (or wait until I get a shaper with power feeder <dream>)________________________Charlie Plesums  Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood

1. 
   crashtestdummy | Oct 19, 2004 03:38am | #11

   You can't cut the wood at a 45 and then use the bit without reducing the size of the piece. Both profiles have protusions past the 45 degree cut. As for uses of the lock mitre, there are many that I have found. One advantage of it is that the clamp force only needs to be in one direction. The bit also works great for high quality painted MDF corners. No visable seam.

   I would rather be mountain biking.

6. 
   tatlin | Oct 18, 2004 08:56pm | #9

   Here is a reference I found, Stickley-style Legs, by Patrick Nelson from a Taunton Press book, Woodworking Techniques, 2000.

   You'll have to build a sled, but it doesn't look complicated. Hope

   this helps.

7. 
   Pondfish | Oct 19, 2004 04:28am | #12

   I've used this bit a few times, and both times ended with profuse cursing.  Adjusting the height and fence is a PITA and one I have stopped trying.  If I feel I need some extra strength or an alignment aid to a mitred edge joint, I use a spline.  It's fast, easy and far safer, especially since the table saw blade is already tilted to 45 degrees.

   Paul

8. 
   crashtestdummy | Oct 19, 2004 05:10am | #13

   Try setting the bit with something that is easy to route, but is also the exact same thickness as your final piece (mdf or poplar maybe). I often use about 10" wide mdf so if the cut is off, I can saw a little off and try again. Once you get a horizontal and vertical cut that match like you want you can make 1/8" fence spacers out of hard board. Place 2 or 3 spacers in front of the router fence (you HAVE to be using a table mounted router) make both cuts, remove a spacer make both cuts etc. I have found that works better than trying to preprofile the miter with the table saw. If the finished edge gets a round over you can make the cuts so they have a tiny step that is removed when rounded over. If the edge doesn't quite become a 45, it is easier to route. You may want to use a feather board to keep the peices tight to the table. Hope this has helped a little

9. 
   JerryPacMan | Oct 19, 2004 06:13pm | #14

   Maybe the CMT link will help using the LMB.  Center the boards where the black dot is shown on the drawing.

   http://cmtusa.com/store/index1.ihtml?x_page=store.ihtml&id=CID9570299815&step=2&parentid=&menuinclude=leftnav_products.ihtml

    

   Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .