Replies

1. 
   RoninKokomo | Jun 28, 2012 08:25pm | #1

   Irons

   Yes I can see your concern if you are not making Krenov style planes. That is what the Hock irons were designed for. Hock was a student of Krenov

1. 
   PhillipB | Jul 01, 2012 12:59pm | #2

   For the record

    @RoninKokomo

   Thanks for your comments.  

   I was not aware that Ron Hock was a student of James Krenov.  Fortunate are those who had the privilege of studying under Mr. Krenov.  I only know him from his books, but that was more than sufficient to leave a lasting impression... and an empty wallet because once I was afflicted it took a small treasure to purchase all of the tools that I have today.  But - I would do it all again in a heart beat.

   Speaking of James Krenov's books, I must take polite exception with two of your comments:

   The first infers that I am - 

    '… not making Krenov style planes."

   Nothing could be further from the truth.  Krenov, via his books, introduced me to wooden planes in the October 1997 issue of FWW.  Prior to that time, all I knew of planes were the standard metal Stanley's.

   On page 81 of Krenov's 'The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking' you will find written the following:

   "... one of the main advantages of the plane we are making is that we will be free to hold it in any number of ways, including putting your whole hand up over the back of it to get a firm hold and more even pressure as you work, without chafing against the iron.  An iron about 4-1/2 inches long will be about right."

   And on page 83 he continues describing plane construction and notes:

   "… The height I have been using is about 2-1/2 inches which has proved adequate for both short and long planes."

   Looking at my attached drawing, you will see that I have drawn two irons at 45 degrees.  The 4.5" iron is outlined in black and the 4.25" is outlined in red.  To the right I have also drawn a line depicting a height of 2.5"

   The osage orange plane I just finished has a finished height (just behind the iron) of approximately 2-1/2 inch.  This coincides with Krenov's writings.

   Then you note:

   "That is what the Hock irons were designed for."

   Krenov was making planes long before Hock attended the College of the Redwoods where Krenov taught.  That statement could mislead some into thinking that Krenov based his planes around Hock irons.  I am not disputing that Krenov may have used Hock irons, but nowhere have I read that to make a Krenov style plane the wood worker must use the short Hock irons.

   I will add that David Welter, in a companion article in the same issue of FWW noted above, wrote the following, "We use the short, thick irons made by Ron Hock for the planes we make at the school. You can also use a standard plane iron."  He also wrote, "Minimum height for the plane blank is about 2 in."  If you do the math, a plane of 2-inches in height leaves the Hock iron protruding approximately 1/2-inch.

   From Mr. Welter's article I learned of Hock's plane irons and those were what I began making all of my planes with.

   Again, I am not saying that the shorter irons/planes do not work because they do.  The good Lord knows I've made a few planes using Hock irons in my time.  However, I'll take a slightly longer 4-1/4 to 4-1/2 inch, well crafted iron, whenever I can get my hands on one over the shorter 3-1/2" irons.   As I mentioned earlier and on my website, I prefer the longer irons because they allow me to make a much more comfortable and controllable plane.  

   In addition, I will also rest comfortably knowing that these are the dimensions that Krenov modeled his wooden planes on that he wrote of in his books.

   
2. 
   gdblake | Jul 04, 2012 09:43am | #3

   Hock now offers 4 1/2" irons for wooden planes

   Phillip:

   I also find the 3 1/2 inch too limiting and communicated this to Ron Hock.  Ron has always be willing to custom make irons, but apparently enough people requested longer irons for Ron to start offering the Krenov irons in a 4 1/2" length.  These have been available for a while now.

   I don't know that Ron was actually a student of Krenov, though he knew him pretty well.  My understanding from talking with Ron is that he was a knife maker and was approached by the School of the Redwoods and asked to make plane irons for them.  I believe the 3 1/2" length was their specification.

   At any rate, the Krenov method of plane construction allows one to make pretty much any style of plane he desires.  I have used Lee Valley's 6" wooden plane iron (no chipbreaker) in a mitre plane and an iron from Ron Brese in a European panel plane (again no chip breaker).  I posted both of these planes on Knots back when I completed them.  Bottom line, there are several iron manufacturers out there so a guy can pick and choose what to use.  If you can't find what you want, Ron Hock will make a custom iron for you so there is no real design limit.

   gdblake

1. 
   PhillipB | Jul 04, 2012 10:36am | #4

   Thanks for your comments

   @gdblake

   Thanks for droppin' by.  I appreciate the company.

   Yes, someone mentioned that Ron Hock was now offering longer irons, but I have not had a chance to check personally.  I want to add a link to his website from my own website for those who are interested in his irons.

   Several years ago I had an opportunity to commicate with David Welter (College of the Redwoods staff member or supervisior, I am not certain which) about my wish that someone at the College would make a video of Krenov before he passed.  (We can't all have a live one-on-one chat with Krenov.)

   Well, this never happened to my knowledge.  Point here is that I also asked about how the short irons came to be and he never responded.  His last email was 'rough' and rushed so he may have been under some pressure or deadline.  We have not communicated since.  I have read that he is now retired, so we may never know.  

   Hock may be able to shed some light on this, but to my knowledge, he does not participate in these forums.  In truth, I am not certain just how historically important this really is, but it does make me scratch my head, especially knowing Krenov's preference for the longer 4-1/2" plane irons.  

   David had an article in a long-ago issue of FWW where he mentioned that Hock was a knife maker.  Going from knives to plane irons was no doubt a fairly easy transition since he already had all the gear to make it happen.

   Ron Breese and I had a lot of email converstaions several years ago and I was just about to purchase one of his chip-breakerless plane irons.  However, my mother-in-law was overcome with cancer and this put a halt to how my wife and I were currently living our lives.  Long story short, mom has left us and I have not picked up where I left off with Mr. Breese.  I think about him once in a while, but I do not think he is as active on these forums as he used to be.  The same can be said of me. Life will do that to you.

   Do you have a website?  I was asked that same question a while back and never gave it much thought.  However, the thought soon came to me that this would be an excellent way to keep my 'wood working life' in one easily accessible place, not just for me, but for anyone who wants to drop in and browse around.  He or she may learn a thing or two, plus they may set me straight wherever I have gone astray.

   Have a Great Fouth! and don't forget to unfurl Ol' Glory and let her wave in the breeze.