i am looking for a new method to crosscut cabinet parts. currently i use a festool saw and that is just not that quick. i do not build cabinet boxes 24/7 so i just cant justify a big slider. i have a nice uni saw and have thought about getting deltas slider to go on that but it has mixed reviews. i have looked at the exactor and the other one that looks like it and they are out of the question. any other options?
the laguna seems to have mixed reviews… i like the small felder k700 and that would fit my needs. but it will hurt the back pocket…
know of any good used saws for sale in the midwest?…. want a clean uni saw…
Replies
I have a jet slider attached to my powermatic 66 and it is on the better end of after market sliders. The accuracy of this sliding attachment is way better than a Excaliber. Ideally, the best solution would be to buy a real sliding table saw. My opinion for you to consider finding a smaller sliding saw that has a 48-52"ish stroke. If you plan alot of panel processing, then a larger saw might be better. But afording the size(and price) is the next problem
I owned a EMA at one time and it had it's problems, but it was a true slider and it didn't have a frame or bar that sticks out in front of the table. I'd buy it back from my friend if he was willing to sell it. I also owned a SCMI SC3? sliding saw. For about $3,000 more than the previous saw, I still liked the EMA saw better, even with the misc problems I had with the EMA.
do you have the big jet slider with the cut out cast top? or is it like the delta. i like your opinion of the short stroke slider. that is what i want but all the salesmen try to tell you to buy the 8' tables because "nobody buys the short ones..." well why do you sell them! any way, i guess the next choice down from the felder wold be a minimax sc3... anyone have one? do you like it? ect...
My saw is a powermatic 66 and it is the jet slider that mounts to their jet saw and it took some modifications to fit it to my saw. It did require removing the left hand cast iron leaf of the saw.. so the side table is about 10" away from the blade. As to your question about the sc3, minimax is made by scmi, so they are about the same. My saw had a 86-88" stroke and there is a extension plate that would let me barely straightline a 97" sheet of melamine.
As to the scoring, on the sc3, the sliding table doesn't have enough support to enable you to keep the material flat on the table to keep a good scoring line. On smaller parts, it works pretty good, but a good 60degree high top melamine blade with a negative hook works as good with no headaches.
I also like to keep the slideing fence between me and the material just as you would do with a mitre guage. The European way still feels uncormfortable
Toolcrib of the north has them for $529 right now. Her's a phot of it. I believe they easily mount on a on a delta saw
"As to the scoring, on the sc3, the sliding table doesn't have enough support to enable you to keep the material flat on the table to keep a good scoring line."
Au contraire - the SC3 (MiniMax) is made specifically to cut panels. They come standard with an outrigger table to support the width of the piece. (See the pic beow.) My MiniMax CU300 S which is essentially a bigger SC3 with other stuff, does a better than excellent job of cutting plypanels and the scoring blade is integral to good panel work.
Long/short tables. The sales guys want you to buy the long tables because these are pro machines and most pros want the 8.5' sliders. I have a garage shop and could not reasonably fit an 8.5' machine in so I went with the 5.5' slider.
http://www.minimax-usa.com/images/sc3w_05.gif_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
I own a Minimax SC2, and like the above poster have had no trouble using the scoring blade. I think the saw was designed to be used the 'european' way, with the panel between you and the mitre fence. This might have been why it gave you trouble.
My saw can only crosscut 52", but it can to that with 60" of plywood to the left of the blade. Because of this all a person really needs is a fence that can cut 25" to the right of the blade (mine cuts 32"). In fact, this saw takes up less room than my old contractors TS that had a 42" rip capacity.
i am glad to see a few minimax users chime in... would you care to share your thaughts about the quality of the saws? i have yet to see one in person. what is the story with the sc2? it looks as though that is not for sale now. thanks.
The SC2 is still sold in Europe. It's the cheapest slider Mini-Max sells. I got lucky and found mine at a local auction. It had never been used, the previous owner went broke before he could even open his shop.
I think MM-USA still sells the SC3 in the small format (5"6" slider).
As to quality, I don't think MM makes anything of poor quality. Their stuff is all top notch.
dude
The quality of my MiniMax CU300Smart is very good. IMO, the MiniMax series from SCMI is meant to be a light production, skilled amateur piece of equipment.
I looked at the Roband, Hammer, MiniMax and Felder. I would have opted for the Felder bot the diference in price ($5,000+) did not justify the difference in quality.
migraine
I understand your comment and to solve the problem I use two clamps, one at the leading edge of the panel and one at the trailing edge. The clamp at the trailing edge is important for two reasons, it keeps the panel material tight to the saw surface and hence the scoring blade, and secondly, allows me to stand outboard of the panel to keep the far trailing corner supported._________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
That what i did with my saw. I used a vise-grip type clamp that came with my Kreig jig. Faster than using a clamp and screwing/tightening down.
I don't want anybody to get me wrong. Pretty much and slide table is better than nothing or using the factory edge. We all just have different preferences. If I had the money, I wouyld probably consider a verticle panel saw at this point in my life. mainly because I work alone now that my son is entering the Navy next month.
Have you had any problems with melamine sheets having alot of tension in the sheets lately? The last stuff I bought would bow almost 1/4-3/8" if you rip a 48 sheet in half.
I have a personal bias against Melamine so I haven't experienced any problems. Might want to talk to your supplier to see if this is a common occurence.
Panel saws are very nice and efficient and take up about 9' to 13' of wall. I have been considering one to hang from my shop ceiling and drop down when I need it. (Just considering!)_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
SCMI makes a saw called the sc3, so does minimax but they are different. The scmi has a slide stoke of 8' where as the minimax has a 4-5' stoke. Correct? The problem I had with the scmi was when I would straight line a edge of a full sheet of material, or when most of the sheet was on the carriage(sliding part). Because the sheets weigh anywhere from 60-100lbs. the sheet would get a slight bow and not sit flat on the table so the scoring blade would not kerf the bottom of the sheet. Now this is for larger pieces, smaller pieces cut great and I could not complain about that.
If I had the money to buy another true sliding saw, I would. I would even consider buying a minimax, if there is ever a next time. With me not in the cabinet business anymore, it's hard to justify any large purchases. Now, I have a Jet sliding attachment. It's still better than nothing and I can square my cabinet parts to a pretty good accuracy. Once you had a good sliding saw, it's hard to go back...
I don't see how you can say the Jet table is more accurate than the Exaktor, I own the 5' crosscut model, and it cuts consistantly closer than 1/64" to square. Do you have experience with the Exacktor?
The excaliber that I used was not very good, worse than the jet. But that was an excaliber, not an exactor or are they the same? But then again they may have improved the system. Maybe it wasn't set up right because the whole thing was very sloppy. What I do rember about the frame work was that there were alot of bolts/bolt holes that had alot of plat in them. It's been 5 years since I used it. My friend who bought it called me over to check it out because he didn't think it worked well either. He sent it back.
Everybody has differnet opinions on tools
The jet cuts within a 1/64" when measuring the diagonals on a 36x48" sheet of material. That's being careful and taking my time when cutting. Putting a jet sliding saw on a powermatic was a little more work than I thiought it would. This is because the shape of the corners on the cabinet base.
Dude,
For crosscutting carcasses (IMHO) nothing beats a big RAS. You can find old Dewalt RAS with 24" crosscut capacity for less than a decient sliding table. I've seen good looking units go for $600. Instead of trying to move the work piece through the saw you can move the saw through the workpiece. Also it is a very versatile machine. coves and mouldings are super easy to set up.
Another option is the linear slide components of companies like http://www.8020.net. Not the cheapest thing around but it has lots of possibilities. Most of the woodworkers I see on these sites would split a penny in half. We've been having great success with the 80/20 stuff and it flexibility and versatility.
The SC-3 is a pretty nice saw for entry level sliders or it was at the time. You should check out the KUFO for inexpensive sliders.
I'd like to talk to a owner of a KUFO saw. I looked at one at the big WW show in Anaheim and wasn't very impressed by any thing except it's price. Everything on it seemed flimsy. I'm not saying it's a bad saw, after all I never got a chance to actually cut with it. For $2k it might be worth looking at.
Some of the sliding saw cannot change the angle of the blade or don't allow for datto sets. Keep this in mind
Here's one for sale on wood web dated 12/4
http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/classifieds.pl?read=376426
as much as i love to save money, 2k for a slider just sounds wrong... i looked at he rojek (sp?) and it was a joke at 3k.
i just found out that kufo has a reseller about 40min from my house and i plan to go take a look at them.
http://www.seco-usa.com/
slider prices are: $3245 for the -m, $3495 for the -s, $3895 for the -L & $4295 for the -####also the -M slider sells seprate for $495 and will mount to a uni saw... i guess it is worth a look, but the price just sounds a bit low. one of the salesmen told me some story about a guy that "had a atendorf, but decided to buy a kufo" the only reason i could see doing that would be the payments...
His wife probably got the Altendorf in the divorce.
Anyone who has ever shoved wood through an Altendorf would never buy a Kufo._________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
I have the Laguna tablesaw and slider (TSS). I think the slider is fantastic and has no play. The heavy-duty mitre that is supplied is awkward and has to be adjusted each time you take it on and off. However, I figured out a way to do this quick and easy and is no longer a problem. I don't know if the slider can be fitted to the unisaw.
If you go to the Laguna message board, you might see a used one for sale. There was one in the Midwest recently, but I think it was purchased.
i was told by a minimax owner that the laguna has problems with tilting the blade... as in a bit of dust will jam it up. i also read a post about one owner that had to have the slider rplaced 2 times before he got a flat one. i think this year they revised the extrusion of that part. sounds like you have never had problems with yours. how long has your laguna been in use? i use my saw almost every day, but i do not cut large volumes of parts, more of the custom one man shop thing. do you have any prblems with the saw at all?
thanks for the first hand info.
I have owned the saw for one year and use the saw on the weekend, and the occasional evening, and it gets a lot of use on those days. I use a dust collector, yet a lot of dust still builds up on the inside, so I could see how it could get gummed up and affect the tilting mechanism. However, this has not been a problem for me.
The slider is the part of the saw I love. It is really well made and has absolutely no play all the way across its stroke. Mine is flat. The saw will take a 12" blade, which I now use. It uses a riving knife instead of a stationary splitter, which I like for safety reasons. It has a very large table to work with. There is nothing mechanically wrong with it. It takes dado blades, which some other Euro saws do not (the Rojek, I think, does not).
As I mentioned before, my complaint is the mitre guage they supply. Because it is so heavy and long, about 42", it does not go back to square when you replace it in its slot on the sliding table. I simply use a large perfectly square MDF board to realign, so it is no longer a problem, but it took me a while to figure this out. You have to remove the gauge for rip cuts resulting in more than about 6" of waste on the side.
I am very happy with the saw. I use the Powermatic 66 and the Delta Unisaw at Cerritos college, where I have taken a couple of courses, so I am very familiar with them. They are great, but do not have a sliding table or riving knife, so they don't "cut it" for me, so I often take my work home to make cuts there.
Their customer service is very good. My other complaint, though, is I am still waiting for a $90 refund from Laguna for some spacers I bought and returned, but that is another story.
I have the large Excaliber slider, and it has served me well. It is tedious to set up the first time, no question about it. However, once set up it works well. It does not have the scoring blade.
I have had no problems with out of sqare cuts that were the fault of the table. I have learned to check the arm for square to the blade befor I use it as the little stop has some play in it. Once squared up and locked down it is fine.
The only issue I have is that the table must be set slightly (1/32) higher than the table saw table. This is so the arm which extends over the saw table will clear the saw table. This arrangement works fine on boards that are mostly on the slider. But if a board is extending a long ways onto the saw table, it can "bend" slightly resulting in a slightly out of square edge. Since I am aware of this, I compensate. This could be resolved with a design change that put a couple of "feet" under the miter arm of the slider.
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