I am looking to take my wood working skills to the next level. I have been looking into HVLP sprayers. I have sprayed paints in the auto industry years ago. So I do have several questions about spraying wood.
Are water base finishes better (easier) to spray than oil base finishes? How much should the finish material be cut? Any other inofrmation would be helpful.
Thanks in advance.
JOE
Replies
Water based and oil based finishes are both easy to spray. Nitro lacquer may be the easiest of all. If you move to hvlp, the atomization or fineness affects the final look, so I'd get at least a midrange system with more than two perforations in the air cap.
i find water based to be already thinned; you can use the Zanner(sp.) drip method to find the optimum range. For more info, Taunton has books on finishing.
Spraying finishes is not 'taking woodworking to the next level.'
An exquisitely done french polish would be an example of that.
And I bet you use hide glue as well - - LOL1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Joe,
I switched to water-based finishes about 2 years ago, but not because they are "easier" to apply. You can get excellent results with any system if you devote some practice and experiment to it. The reasons I use water-base are because:
Extremely convenient to be able to wash up in the sink, especially if you are constantly moving from one thing to another. I am always in the middle of several finishes in parallel.
Environmentally much friendlier to all, first of all to me.
It has become possible to get excellent results on all kinds of applications.
On ther downside are 2 major factors:
Water-based is still considerably more expensive.
Drying time is still longer than with any solvent based system.
So weigh everything up according to your own needs...
DR
Water based finishes have their good points, but I have to disagree that they are more eco-friendly.
Just because you can't smell VOCs does not make them safe. Many water based clearcoats contain warnings as they have been known to cause damage to reproductive organs(no kidding). The plastics and resins used are just as damaging, especially when dumped into sewer systems and on up the chain to municipal drinking water.
Not trying to give a lecture just something to consider.
I wouldn't recommend drinking them, and I'm not saying they're perfect. I use a baffle filter at the exit of my sprayroom to catch airborn particles, and it does a decent job. Anyone, man or beast, standing outside the exhaust of my sprayroom nowadays gets a moist breeze in the face and not a knockout dose of solvents. Nobody can convince me it isn't an improvement.
DR
Among water-based clear finishes, which is the most water-resistant? I used Polycrylic on a project a few years back and was reasonably impressed. However, I'd like to find something a bit more water resistant if possible. Willing to pay more if necessary.Thanks.
Chris,
I have never seen an objective study of water-resistance on various types. But from personal experience I have used polyurethane (water-based) on bathroom and kitchen applications for the past 2 years or so with excellent results, including wood countertops that often get wet. They need a lot of coats though.
good luck,
DR
Clear woodworking finishes aren't water base, they're water borne and altough better, still nasty to breath. Since the delivery vechicle and clean up medium isn't a solvent overall exposure to bad stuff is less. A big benefit of W/B is not risking blowing yourself to smitherines. The spray equipment -conventional vs HVLP has a lot to do with enviro-friendlyness. That's why conventional guns are illegial to use in California, even if you have a booth. I use Enduro and take exception to your cost and drying cons. It's a little more expensive ($20 gallon) than the Lily lacquer and thinner I used to use, but not that much and I don't have to use a quart of thinner to clean the gun. I shoot Enduro straight from the can with a conventional Binks 95 gun. 3 light coats 20 minutes apart, wait an hour and level it with 320. Shoot a final wet coat and in another hour I'm getting nothing but powder on 3M Ultrafine sanding pads (sponges). For me it's about the same time as with lacquer. Altough the prep takes an extra step to raise the grain and sand with 220. If I'm using trophy wood, I like to pop the grain with BLO so that adds a week to dry even with lacquer. With Enduro a barrier coat of dewaxed shellac is needed because it won't stick to oil.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Excellent summary of pertinent issues.
I keep using "water-based" when I mean "water-borne." Gotta stop doing that.
Rich
Edited 7/14/2005 3:54 pm ET by Rich14
John,
Have you tried the enduro sanding sealer ILO shellac? I use it all the time. For wet areas such as a bathroom I add their crosslinker. Its kinda expensive about 29 bucks a qt but you only add a couple of T spoons to a qt of finish. It makes it more water and abrasion resistant.
Your the only other guy here I heard mention enduro...I swear by the stuff.
Im getting ready to spray a bath vanity with their white poly. Its pretty good stuff too.
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I tend to stay away from sanding sealers in general since they tend to obscure the wood. Haven't tried their cross linker but will keep it in mind if I need something extra tough. A pro I know introduced me to Enduro a few years ago. I was a die-hard lacquer fan no more from then on. I've never even tried any other w/b finishes 'cause it works so damn good. I used to have to go down and get it at the source in San Clemente which was about a 2 hour R/T. About a year or so ago Austin in Santa Ana started carrying it at the same price. That saves me 1:10 on the run. It's no wonder Compliant sells Accuspray equipment either. It's like they were made for Enduro. Wish I had one and a turbine instead of the conventional gun I have. It's nice to have almost no overspray and to not have to listen to my oil-less P.O.S. compressor. I turned a buddy on to Accuspray and now he has 2 guns and a turbine I can borrow when I need it.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
I have their accuspray conversion lvlp. I spray it straight outta the can after filtering. great stuff . I buy it at Austins also. But I think a turbines powered gun ya might have to thin it.
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Nope.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Nope works just fine straight out of the can. Since we're neighbors to some extent, (I'm in FV) where do you get your sharpening done? I go to Industrial Blade on Ritchie around the corner from where Junior's Tools used to be (Sigh).
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Edited 7/15/2005 9:16 am ET by ELCOHOLIC
I used to get my shapening done there to. But since I moved to Fullerton I go to La Habra Tool. Great place. If you time it right like bring your blades in on tuesday morning you can pick them up the same day. I had them sharpen my rail & stile and panel bit and they came out more balanced and cut better than they did new.
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I dropped-off 3 blades and 2 sets of J&P knives wednesday and I won't get them 'till Monday. Good thing I'm just finishing this weekend. I'll try out LaHabra Tool next time around. Funny you mentioned balanced router bits are better, exactly my point in my Woodworks Observations thread. I'm heading over to Austin at lunch to get some Figure 8's, might even have an impulse buy and pick up an Accuspray Gun.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
You wont be sorry with the accuspray either turbine or conversion. I know 2 guys who have turbines and swear by them. I have the conversion and swear by it. I really like it being a non bleed gun too
( I saw I left out "wont" in my post last night...ooops sorry)
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Edited 7/16/2005 11:11 am ET by Sancho Ron
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