I need a low-angle block plane. Looking for several owner satisfaction responses on Lie Nielson ($95), Veritas ($125), or other. And the survey says…
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Replies
I have a Lie-Neilsen and like it very much. I used to have a 1990s model #60.5 from Stanley and even with a Ron Hock blade it was not as nice. I don't think you can go wrong with the Lie-Neilsen
Troy
Hey Sykesville,
I got one of each including LV, LN, Stanley 60-1/2 (3) Stanley 65 (2) and probably a few more. My most used in the LN 102. Light and does exactly what it should. It does not have an adjustable mouth, but I have never found that to be an issue. Next favorite would be an old beater Stanley 60-1/2 and then a 65.
What state for sykesville?
T.Z.
Sykesville, MD. Thanks for the reply.
If you are only going to own one low angle block plane I'd go with the LN rabbit block plane. It does everything the standard low angle plane can do plus also function as a wide shoulder plane for triming tenons and cleaning up rabbits. This is the most used tool in my shop.
Edited 11/5/2007 4:58 pm ET by gdblake
I didn't think of that. thanks, I'll look.
My go-to block plane is the bronze LN #103 (standard angle). It is small and extremely comfortable in the hand - but with authority! - and is just the sweetest performer on both face- and end grain.
I also have the LN LA #60 1/2, with adjustable mouth. This is a nice size for an traditional small block plane.
Another is the Stanley #65 (with Hock blade). This is probably my best performer in terms of being able to take the most delicate, fine shaving. However it is less robust as it is constructed of grey cast iron, so it lives on the shelf alongside the bench.
I can say the same for my Stanley #18 (with a Japanese laminated blade). The standard angle block work exceptionally well on end grain so do not be put off by this configuration if you have a chance to pick up one cheaply.
A recent addition has been the bronze LN #140R (skew block plane), which was the subject of a total restoration (I posted this here some while back). For cross grain work (such as tenons). It is now a superb performer.
I have heard great reports of the LV LA block. Many say that it performs better than the LN. It certainly has a number of very useful accessories available, such as a campher attachment and a tote to turn it into a #3 sized smoother.
Regards from Perth
Derek
I have a late model (about 1995) stanley low angle block plane with the original iron. I've lapped it carefully, made the sides perpendicular to the sole, and lapped the iron bed until the iron contacts the bed almost perfectly. It took about an hour to do along with the standard (also NEW stanley block plane). Along the way I learned more about block planes than a LN or a Veritas will ever teach me. Someday I may add a Hock iron because the one I bought for my old stanley # 4 was really, really, etc good.
Today, I used the low angle block plane with a mitre shooting board to fit 16 mitred glass "keepers" to the frame and mullions for a door and side window system. The combo worked prefectly where the chop saw shredded the thin wood.
My point: (Do I have one?) The stanley isn't as good out of the box as an LN or a veritas (or a bridge city). But, I can make it cut as well as any plane and I can buy it, a standard block plane, and have money left over to fix two little lab/border collie crosses (fix? I'm not sure that they see it that way.)
The adjuster has lots more hysterisis than an LN and the plane isn't the goregous jewel that my LN rabet block plane is. But, it does the job flawlessly and I learned a lot about planes fettleing it.
That was a joy just like s using a good, accurate plane and an old time shooting board to make clean mitres where the chop saw just chopped too much.
Come on folks, you don't need the best of every tool to do the best work. That seems like greed in action. When I can work better than my cheap but carefully fettled planes, I'll spring for the LN's all around. They are beautiful, aren't they?
Come on folks, you don't need the best of every tool to do the best work.
Of course you don't.
But it is fun to have a bit of variety... :)
Regards from Perth
Derek
telemike--- that's a really smart approach--with both the block plane---AND the shooting board!!!!!!
stephen
I have the LV LA Block plane, The two set screws(for blade alignment) and Norris type adjuster make the plane easy to set up and stays adjusted while shooting end grain so long as the irons ground straight in the first instance.
Cheers and what ever you buy I hope you enjoy it.
I only own one new plane, a LV block plane. Its a beautiful tool, but I'm not nuts about the blade. I may have had it for 5 years or more, so they may have different blades now. I think the blade is A2. I don't feel it takes a good edge and its not easy to sharpen. It has a gumminess to it that I don't care for. I don't think its defective. Others may love these blades. I work with a lot of edge tools and I'm intimate with each one. I just don't love this blade.
The body is gorgeous, but I'd be happier with a pre WWII Stanley SW W-1 steel blade.
I was in the museum a few months ago and one of my friends was planing end grain quite nicely with my wooden smoother. I told him teasingly that smoothers can't cut end grain. He said humorlessly that he does it all the time and stopped using his block planes many years ago. I said "me too" and so did the other woodworkers present, then we all laughed. I think block planes were designed for one handed use and really are not as helpful or important to furniture makers as many say. At least, the 3 or 4 cabinetmakers in the shop that day didn't think so.
Maybe you should just buy the cheapest figuring you may well abandon it someday.
Adam
Why you would get other than this is a mystery.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=41228&cat=1,41182
cicero
Its a funny thing but a guy said the same thing to me 33 years ago when I was trying to decide between a Volkswagon Bug and a Volvo PV544. The PV was 190.00 more than the bug.
490,000 miles later I still have the PV and I send him a picture of it every Christmas. No mystery - just a best guess.
Dan
Forgot what I said there Dan,but I must say I have always enjoyed getting a new car.!
hey cicero
At the time I was deciding between the bug and the PV I was looking at new stuff. I bought a used one from a Univ of New Mexico professor who drove his to Alaska and then returned and bought a Saab 2 cycle car. Drove the 544 for 26 years(11 times across the country). Never had a radio and no air. Just wanted solid transportation. These days the miles have slowed down and I baby the old girl.
Well the time has come to lash out on a new Lexus.
May as well try the best b4 you shuffle off the mortal coil.
okay, went to woodworking show is York PA today. LV was there. Now I understand why I probably don't need a block plane. I planed for probably two hours using everything they had on display. The one plane that I was really smoking with was the low-angle smoothing plane. What troubled me was I couldn't get the same finish with the low-angle jack plane. Everything was identical except for the size (2-in blade on the LAS, 2.25 on the LAJ): the bevel was exactly the same (we measured them, 30 degrees each), the angle was the same (12 degrees before the bevel), the mouth was the same. I dunno. I'd have liked the LA jack plane for the size, but the smoothing wasn't as nice. Could have been operator error, but again, I was planing for about two hours. Any opinions?
Edited 11/10/2007 7:53 pm ET by sykesville
A duller blade in the jack. Regardless of whether they sharpened them during your stint or not.
Take care, Mike
As Mike suggested, a duller blade it in LAJ .... probably because more wanted to try it out than the LAS :)
Regards from Perth
Derek
Edited 11/10/2007 11:29 pm ET by derekcohen
what's the deal Dan--- you will show HIM a picture of the PV-- but ya won't share one with US????
Best wishes,
Stephen
I'm not sure what you are looking for other than a block plane.
The two planes you are comparing are very different models. The LN is smaller and has a fixed mouth. The LV has an adjustable mouth and is slightly larger.
If you want to compare apples to apples compare the LV apron plane to the LN block plane or compare the LN Adjustable Mouth Block Plane to the LV Low Angle Block Plane.
Other than that, you really can't go wrong with any option from either company. Adjustable mouths don't really matter on end grain. Both are excellent manufacturers with stellar customer service.
I think it really comes down to how the tool fits in your own hand.
I tell ya, the 35 bucks I paid to get into this forum has paid off like getting a full scholarship for a BA and an MA at an Ivy League school. Appreciate all the masters and everyone else out their taking the time to share their expertise.
Sykesville,
The price you paid gives you access to some very nice content on the finewoodworking.com site, but FYI access to the forum is free!
-Andy, Ivy-League MA, full scholarship ;)
P.S. I'd go for the little bronze LN. If you don't like it, or give it up later as Cherubini suggests, you can usually recover the full value on eBay. Sharpening A2 is not an issue if you use Norton waterstones.
Function is what we are after and a smart bugger.
Hi Adam
I don't have your reservations about A1 steel. I have a good many A1 blades and they get very sharp. That said, they are a little more effort to hone than O1. I am not sure if I believe my O1 and HCS blades get "sharper" because of all the hype here, or because they are that little bit easier to hone, or just perhaps because they really do. I can say that my Stanley #65 is my favourite blockplane for delicate work because it has a O1 Hock blade. The restored LN #140R has a thick W1 blade, but I have not used it much to gain an impression.
There is a lot of unneccesary stressing with block planes. The fact is that most anything can be made to work reasonably. Like in most things, there is a higher end where you get what you pay for, but there is also the Law of Diminishing Returns.
Low cutting angles still produce a cleaner finish on end grain than is produced by a high angle plane, but a high angle will still work - and the latter then has the advantage of better performance on face grain. An adjustable mouth is only necessary for face grain as the size of the mouth is irrelevant on end grain.
Here is the little experiment I did with mouth size:
http://woodcentral.com.ldh0138.uslec.net/cgi-bin/archives_handtools.pl?read=68098
And here is my favourite block plane review:
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/z_art/orBPlane/index.asp
Regards from Perth
Derek
And here is my favourite block plane review:http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/z_art/orBPlane/index.aspRegards from PerthDerekThat's one of my favorites too. I enjoyed reading that again! And the plane matches the FWW logo on my screen. Maybe you could trasnfer the logo to the plane side and FWW could give them out for gifts (free for a 10 year subscription, say).Seriously, its a great reminder that a plane is nothing more than a chisel held in a block.Adam
Owner satisfaction response. I have done well enough with my collection of old stanleys. All of mine are used and tuned up in various ways. I've never seen any other plane users actually fettle so I can't say that I fettle anything.
At the price of the stanley vs the LN its tough to say which way to go if you are just wanting a nice low angle plane and you want it now. As far as I can tell, I think I can count the people on one hand who have LN planes and say they regret buying one. Its pretty rare to see/hear that on Knots.
I have only seen one LN block plane and it was very well made and the guy who owned it was planning to have his wife make pot holders and sell them in the driveway so he could get another one. I guess that's why I don't have my first one. My wife doesn't know a draw knife from a smoothing plane-- and doesn't ask about it.
Closing thought: no one makes a fuss about a stanley low angle block plane. No matter how well it is set up "its just another stanley" On the other hand people are very curious when someone sets a LN on the bench. Lots of curb appeal if you are in the market.
good luck hunting
Stanley #65 with Hock blade gets the most use.
Stanley #19 for long grain.
Stanley #60 1/2 with Hock blade for the tool belt.
I don't find any difference in capability at all between these and the L/N's. The L/V I haven't tried.
The difference with the Veritas is with the set screws and adjuster. I use the plane for flattening, jointing and more for building guitars. If L/N would be a little more innovative and less inclined towards copies of old stanleys it would be a good thing for us.
Dude, just an observation: although I don't have any L/N planes but I have seen many and I would not say that they are just copies of Stanley because they are made to a much higher standard and include improvements as well.You could say that L/N have gone the traditional route whilst Lee Valley have taken the innovative route- so you have a choice- which is great.Philip Marcou
I'm not sure if I could disagree more strongly with your statement. I agree with Philip - it's good that LV has taken a more innovative route, and for many tools that ends up being more in line with my needs and preference (router planes, plow, scrapers). However, for many many tools (bench planes, chisels, floats) I prefer having the classic designs (which appear to me to have been pretty well advanced already) repeated, but with the improved materials, processes and precision LN gives them.Choice is good. Innovation is good, but then so is sticking with what works when it works.
Hi Sykes,
It costs nothing to get in here as others have said.
Now, the question that none have asked as yet.
"why is it that you need the block plane?"
The choice of plane depends upon what you need it for.
A standard plane will work on end grain, but a block plane has a few specialty uses. I note that some authors state that only a block plane cuts end grain. As noted previously in the thread, any plane will cut end grain if it's sharp.
Cheers,
eddie
(who hasn't used a block plane in a number of years.)
Maybe I need to go back and read more of Derek's reviews, but I'm pretty sure low angle really refers to the bed angle, not the effective cutting angle. So you could have a 12 degree bed, + 30 degree bevel = 42 degree cutting angle versus a standard 45. Simply skewing a standard plane can get you much lower angles than that, making the difference in cutting angles irrelevant.
Like you, I don't find I need this plane (tho I carry one in my plastic carpentry toolbox). And I wonder why folks make such a fuss over "low angle". Its really not low angle at all, right?
Jump in here Derek and educate us.
Adam
P.S. My LV block plane has little set screws you can use to lock in the lateral set of the blade. I found this a helpful feature of the LV design. Don't know how this compares to LN.
"And I wonder why folks make such a fuss over "low angle". Its really not low angle at all, right?"
The standard setup for a low-angle block plane is a 25° bevel-up blade on a 12° bed, so the cutting angle is 37°, which is indeed low. But you're right--you can set it up for more "normal" angles, too. Of course, that's the touted advantage of a bevel-up plane: You can easily vary the cutting angle by regrinding the blade, or by using different blades.
-Steve
You can easily vary the cutting angle by regrinding the blade, or by using different blades.
Just to be clear, you can vary the cutting angle easier by simply skewing the plane (I know you know this).
A 45 degree plane skewed 45 degrees has an effective 35 degree cutting angle. Now of course you could (and I suspect most people do) skew a "low angle" plane and get a greater reduction in cutting angle.
One more thing- I've always kept the blade on my block plane straight. I prefer a curved blade for end grain because I use it precisely the same way as I square edges. So that's another reason I prefer using my smoother.
(a little bit more) it may be important to note that i saw entirely by hand so my work on end grain is almost always to bring a poorly sawn end square. I very rarely am looking to remove .010 from a square end.
Adam
"Just to be clear, you can vary the cutting angle easier by simply skewing the plane (I know you know this)."
Of course. However, you can only decrease the cutting angle, not increase it, and the effect is more pronounced with lower initial cutting angles than it is with higher initial cutting angles.
-Steve
"However, you can only decrease the cutting angle, not increase it,"You could use a back bevel, right. I mean, I don't. But if you wanted to play around with your plane's performance, there are things you can do to just about any plane. I didn't follow the second half of your sentence.Adam
"You could use a back bevel, right."
Right. But that's a bit more work than just skewing the plane. ;)
And it kind of turns it into a bevel-up plane, no?
"I didn't follow the second half of your sentence."
If the "nominal" cutting angle of the plane is high, then skewing it by a given amount has a less dramatic effect than if the "nominal" cutting angle of the plane is low. For example, let's say you have a plane with a really steep cutting angle, 65°, for those infamous Australian woods. Skewing that plane to 45° reduces the cutting angle to 57°, not a huge change. But now start with a really low-angle plane, 35°, and skew it to 45°, and the cutting angle is reduced to 26°, which is a quite significant change.
I think we're well on our way to splitting these hairs just about as far as they will go.... ;)
-Steve
Block planes?? Them with no decent handle at the back?? And if there is a knob it is the size of a pin head? And the "guess whenandwhere the blade will go adjustment mechanisms?
I dunno, really, I dunno. I have got a few of them, acquired in moments of weakness. In fact the first plane I ever got was a Stanley no. 130, for Christmas, instead of the 41/2 that I had seen in the store- the man told my Father that I was "too small" for a "proper plane"....That guy could have done permanent damage.
As I have said , I have some of them, and to this day I have never found a use for them which could not be done far better and easier by anything from from a number 2 upwards....
End grain planing? Why accept uphill from a pissant plane that you can't even get a decent grip of? Lots of end grain to smooth/square? Better to use something with weight like a no.51/2 or 6. Little bits of end grain? -The no. 3 is good ....Why endure a lack of comfort when planing some wood?
I just don't know. I have never dropped a plane-possibly because a) I don't use block planes or b)I am not a builder or boat builder prancing from rafter to rafter or bow to stern or c)-most likely- I like to use a plane with a handle on it so it can't go anywhere except where it is told to go.
In fact, I am so underwhelmed by BLOCKPLANES that I even made a small plane that performs far better than any blockplane.
I suspect that Stanley had to find a use for cast iron floor sweepings, and that was the result: the legend lives on...(;)
At any rate, I am still open to reason: can anyone convince me that I should not banish all my block planes by coming up with a good use for them when making normal furniture?Philip Marcou
I have to agree with you. They are most uncomfortable to use. I call mine the "knuckle buster."
They are most uncomfortable to use.
..... and then I love using block planes. Next to paring chisels and spokeshaves they are amongst my favourite hand tools.
View Image
Stanley #65, LN LA #60 1/2, LN #103
They are light and have "feel" when something small requires a little finesse. I like using them on the shooting board where a large plane dwarfs the edge. They make terrific small smoothers when the cutting angle is high. Or even small scraper planes, such as in the case of the Veritas "Little Victor" with a reversed blade.
View Image
I spent some time, with the help of Thomas Lie-Nielsen, restoring this #140R to usable condition. It is special, not only because it is great on tenon faces and other cross grain work, but because it was one of the first planes they made.
View Image
All add to the pleasure of working wood ...
Regards from Perth
Derek
Edited 11/6/2007 7:05 am ET by derekcohen
I hope you didn't go to the trouble of taking all those pictures on my account.
Philip,
That's quite the post there and I will do my best to refute.
First of all, the shape of the block plane's cap iron is supposed to fit in the palm of your hand. The Veritas Low Angle Block has an accessory handle if you must have one, though I don't usually feel the need. Yes, the knob is small, but it's all that's needed to get a good grasp of the plane. Veritas also has an accessory knob if you feel the need. Keep in mind that the block plane is used most often to remove just a small amount of wood - to level a joint, knock off corners, or pare end grain. It's not meant to be used as a jack plane, hogging off material or as a smoother plane, providing a wonderfully smooth surface. The length of the block plane is too short to flatten a board and the blade is too narrow to efficiently work as a smoother. Basically what I am saying is that the block plane lacks the tote and knob found on bench planes because they are not necessary and sometimes not suitable. I often use a block plane one handed - something that cannot be done if the plane has a tote.
In regards to your comment on the blade adjustments, I have found that most block planes have atleast a decent blade adjustment mechanism. Even most of todays $20 block planes have a decent adjustments. (Yes, some ARE better than others).
When working end grain, most planes will do an acceptable job (including bench planes with and effective cutting angle of 45 degrees), however low angle planes (smoothers, jacks, blocks) with an effective cutting angle of 37 degrees requires less force to make the cut (even without skewing the plane). I find that bench planes take more downward pressure to keep the blade from chattering. That could just be me, however. With the block plane set for a fine cut, I can consistently get full width end grain shavings. I find that the block plane is just as comfortable as any other plane in use - especially when used one handed, as I often do.
I assume that the block plane you made yourself is a wooden-bodied plane, possibly in the Krenovian style. As we all know, a well-made tool is a complete joy to use. My speculation is that you are comparing your finely made block plane to an inexpensive or not-tuned up metal bodied plane.
Here is my attempt in justifying your continued use with a block plane. I assume that you are using many power tools in the making of your furniture. I can't think of a handier tool to clean up machine marks or remove burning (especially in one specific area). A block plane excells at levelling a joint where on part is slightly proud of the other. To soften edges, I find a block plane to be indispensable. Sure a router with 45 degree chamfer bit will work, but the block plane is probably quicker and also lends a handcrafted look to the piece, especially if the chamfer is a little uneven. If I am making pegs to lock a tenon in place, the block plane is the most convenient way to make them. An slightly oversized octagonal-ish peg with a tapered end fits better than a dowel, even if you can find one the right size (often a shade too small, as experience has proved). Another common use I find is for trimming solid wood edge banding which I have intentionally left wide. Many of the tasks I have listed here would be given to a sander. Personally, I do not like sanding and avoid it like the plague. I like to use my hand tools - planes, chisels, and scrapers instead. They're quieter, vibration and dust free, and more fun to use.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope that I have made a strong argument for the block plane. I understand that not everyone will agree with me, but those are my two bits.Chris @ flairwoodworks
Chris , you and Hammer are taking me far too seriously, but there were one or two serious points...
Admittedly there were some ulterior motives to the post as well-such as finding out exactly what folks are using these planes for. Also interesting to observe what assumptions we make about each other.
Actually, I have never made a wooden plane, much less a wooden block a la Krenov- perhaps I could fit one in before it is too late. But I have made several small metal planes with knob and tote which I would far rather use for any tasks so far listed for block planes.
I don't agree with the view that one cannot use a small knobandtote one handed: even one as big as a number 4 is easily used one handed. I think just the opposite in fact, especially if there is some weight to the plane and the tote is suitably shaped.Philip Marcou
Philip,
You really got me going with your original post, and my response reflected that. I have a question for you, though: How do you hold a plane with tote and knob one handed? You refer to a plane as big a #4, which I know is a bench plane. I realise you can hold a low angle plane one handed, but never have figured out how with a bench plane. Do you hold the tote at the back? The knob? Or perhaps put your hand between the frog and tote? I can't quite visualize it.Chris @ flairwoodworks
Like this , ofcourse.
It is easier than taking photos with left hand ...Philip Marcou
Edited 11/8/2007 3:52 am by philip
show off!
But seriously, can I interest you in my first born for a plane like that?
Philip,
That's quite impressive. I played around a little more with my planes and found that the longer planes seem easier to use one handed, albeit heavier. I have a little more trouble applying enough downward force to prevent chattering, even with the plane set for a 1-thou shaving. I had no problem with a jack or jointer. Shooting, of course, is easy to do one handed!Chris @ flairwoodworks
Chattering?? What's that? (;) Did you notice my reference in earlier post(s) to weight/heft? And the format of the tote?Philip Marcou
Philip,
I hesiate to opine on blockplanes, being a plane-newby. However, being such a newby perhaps I have not acquired any plane-habits or even prejudices yet, so still tend to ask, "Wot use this thang"?
I have a Veritas standard angle block plane, the first plane I bought. It used to do all my planing (there was no other). Since acquiring other planes with totes and knobs (large and small, from one P. Marcou and also Mr Lee) I do find the Veritas block plane now hardly used.
Some typical block plane jobs are said to be: end grain planing; chamfering/rounding edges; final fitting of joints like M&T; paring off DT or finger joint protruding ends; fitting small parts like doors in a frame or lids in a box. I find that I now use either a small plane of the tote/knob kind,a shoulder plane or a spokeshave for these tasks - with one exception.
I also have a Lie Nielsen 140 skew block plane, which is low angle, has a removable side, a fence and a knicker. These features make the 140 useful for all kinds of small jobs including the clean reduction of endgrain protruberances (those DT and finger joints); but also (amongst other tasks): cleaning out TS-cut rabbets, fielding small panels and cutting a rabbet across the grain in smaller parts (eg a la Cosman prior to making DTs in drawer parts).
None of the tote/knob planes do these things quite as well (or at all) because they are too large and/or lack the skew/low angle blade, the knicker or the fence. Sometimes a shoulder plane will do the rabbets but mine is a large, heavy, tall one so the low C of G of the 140 seems to work better.
So, I agree with you that a blockplane is not top of the plane list but I wouldn't want to lose the 140, although my Veritas standard block plane may go to a good home elsewhere, should one appear containing a WW inhabitant in need.
Lataxe: still larnin' aboot planes, like.
Edited 11/7/2007 3:31 pm ET by Lataxe
Aye, aye,
Dawn't lose number 140. That is a unique plane and it seems daft that Stanley discontinued it - I can only surmise that it must have been a bean- counted decision.Happily, Lie Nielsen resurrected it most fittingly. Interesting to note that "at two pounds this plane is substantially heftier than the usual block plane"- and well it should be since every list of tasks for block planes that I see usually starts with "end grain planing"....
Still, this plane is limited to a very short list of things it is suited to do, such as some small and short rabbits, and I would hate to have to use it to level dovetails on side of chest, for example - skewed blade and all.(read: must be good for end grain planing).Even small areas of dovetail levelling such as on drawer sides will not get me to favour this one over my 51/2...
I would happily trade all my block planes plus a number three for a PAIR of these so that I may have one in left hand and one in right hand, but I doubt if there is anybody on this forum either gullible enough or benevolent enough to accommodate me.
Philip Marcou
"At any rate, I am still open to reason: can anyone convince me that I should not banish all my block planes by coming up with a good use for them when making normal furniture?"Not that there is any reason to convince anybody on the way they want to do things, but I had the camera in the shop today. I'm a power tool woodworker. The most common hand plane I use is a low angle block. I have several but I like my fairly new Stanley #60 1/2 and a 1960's #65 which is large, 2"x7". I used that for three duties today.I just started this piece. It will be a low, console type cabinet. There will be columns sitting on the plinth areas I was fitting up. #1 shows where a base frame member was a little higher than the front stringer. Two shots with the #65 and things were nice and flush. You can actually see the plane cuts on all of these pictures. #2 is where I did a little fitting on one of the miters. It was open just a bit on the top face. #3 shows where I cut a quick bevel so the edge wasn't hitting in the corner of the rabbet, where there may have been a bead of glue squeeze. I don't do anything fancy to my block planes. Standard bevel, no micro-bevels, back bevels. I just want a nice clean, accurate cut. It's nice to have something small, that fits right in your hand, can handle a variety of simple tasks, is easy to sharpen, touch up and fits in restricted areas. I can do these tasks with other tools but I like the trusty old block.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hammer,
Block plane or not, you do fabulous work!
Do you accept "senior citizen" apprentices? :-)
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
EXACTLY!!! I own one hand plane. that's it. I work in a cabinet shop and have free access to all the power tools I want. Would I call myself a fine woodworker even though there isn't a functional handplane in the shop? You bet! Do I feel guilty about not knowing didly $H1T about most hand tools. Again, you bet. I bought the LV LA Block and I can say that for learning the basics and versatility it is the ticket. I can adjust the blade grind angle for any purpose. The setscrews in the side are a real boon to us novices and I didn't weep when I scratched the bed like I would have if I had dropped $$$$$$$ on a LN. I think any plane would have done to teach me about the basics but for the price the LV made me very happy. It accepts a tote should I want to ask it to do double duty as a smoother. Could I have gotten by with a $50 Stanley? yes. Would I have been frustrated with the cheap blade and less careful with the casting because I bought a cheap tool. Probably. But I didn't have to spend 3hrs caressing the sole on a diamond stone to start my day. If you need a block, get this one. You wont be disappointed. Just my two cents.
"...I didn't weep when I scratched the bed like I would have if I had dropped $$$$$$$ on a LN."
I agree in general with your sentiments, but don't quite understand the above, as the two planes cost about the same ($125 vs. $150). I have both, and my LN is the one that's scratched. ;)
-Steve
Friends,
After reading threads in Knots for quite a while, I would like to say that this is this one ranks with the best of the best. Without any bad feelings or bile, folks have gotten down to saying how and why they use or do not use block planes. A review on block planes based on this thread would be an EXCELLENT article for FWW!!!!!!As I have been on my journey toward the use of hand tools, I have read voraciously in the area of hand planes, and most of what I have read are generalizations without context. Then someone else would give their opinion, without context. This thread has been an eye opener, based on the wide experience of a bunch of excellent long-time woodworkers. I'd like to see another thread like this on Jack Planes (a much maligned entity). What do real woodworkers use it for and why, and for those who don't, what they use as an alternative. We have beat shoulder planes to death over the past few years. No need to do that again for a while.Thanks,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
NO ONE scratches a LN! IF You have scratched your you will immediatly be sentenced to death by planing. A dull plane on your back for eternity... ;)
"NO ONE scratches a LN!"
Uh, oh. I better not mention that bronze beading tool....
-Steve
Steve,
The LN Plane Police just flew past my house on a dead run. I'm between LN and you so trust me on this one!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"The LN Plane Police just flew past my house on a dead run."
It was touch-and-go for awhile....
The police (two of them, in plane clothes) arrived at my front door a short while ago. Having seen your message, I was prepared. As I opened the door, I lifted (with one hand, of course) my new Lee Valley #164-1/2 bevel-up smoother, holding it so that they were exposed to its shiny, mirror-like sole. The younger of the two officers immediately fell to his knees, clasping his hands over his eyes and screaming. The older one appeared to be wearing some kind of anti-LV contact lenses, however, and she just laughed. Out of the corner of my eye I saw her start to pull what looked like an adjustable-mouth block plane--with rodmaker's groove!--from her pocket. Thinking fast, I ran down to the basement and grabbed (with both hands) my newly-acquired Stanley #7C. I ran back up the stairs to find her at the top landing. I held the plane up so that she could see that the decal was still intact:
View Image
Upon seeing the decal, her shoulders slumped and she whimpered softly.
And then I bribed them with some fresh, homemade double chocolate brownies and they left.
-Steve
Good story apart from to many women in it.
Lets not be too PC.
Man you're good!
You coulda given Rod Serling a run for his money. The Planewright Zone........
doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 11/9/2007 3:01 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Hi Adam
Not much to add - you and Steve have it between the two of you.
I suppose that there would not be much use for a small block plane if Eddie, for example, could use his beloved #6 one-handed. The main advantage of these planes is that they are so compact and so useful for small areas. Then again, I know some who will instead use a bullnose plane, or similar.
The business about cutting angle and end grain always reminds me of how I came to buy the LN #103 (which is a standard angle - 20 degree bed - in other words, a cutting angle no different from a Stanley #4). I thought I had bought a #102 (which has the 12 degree bed). Years later I actually read the label properly (my excuse being that I need reading glasses), and it said #103! I was flabbergasted as I had gone for some years bragging about the end grain cutting ability of the "low angle" block plane. Just goes to show - a standard angle can do just as well with a sharp blade!
Regards from Perth
Derek
To sort of back up what you're saying Derek, I've only ever owned standard bedding angle block planes in the 3-1/2 or so decades now that I've worked as a furniture maker.
I've never had a problem planing either end grain or long grain with them. I've used a few low angle block planes, and not noticed they do a better job on end grain, and I think they generally perform somewhat less effectively on long grain with a standard honing angle of about 25º. Consequently the idea that I really, really 'need' one of those low angle jobbies has never crossed my mind.
Of course, my mind probably isn't up to much which could explain that, ha, ha-- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 11/5/2007 10:13 am by SgianDubh
eddiefrom Australia,
you asked what I need a block plane for.
I need it to trim the rails and the top of the aprons, and smooth up the legs on these night stands. (rails are an inch thick). My first woodworking project (don't laugh) with some new tools. I did all the mortise and tenons by hand, and to be on the safe side, made the rails and aprons about 1/32 proud. Also need to clean up the blade burns on the legs... I have this little no-name, non-adjustable (aside from screwing the blade in the right place) block plane, sharpened the heck out of it on a water stone (at the 30 degree bevel that it came with), but can't seem to adjust it properly enough to do a clean shave. I do get some nice shavings on a scrap piece of the same cherry material, but I keep getting chatter (i think that's what you guys call it) and gouges. My first time using a plane on a piece of "fine" furniture, however...
jack
looks like my pictures didn't take. I'll try again
Edited 11/5/2007 5:31 pm ET by sykesville
Let's see if it took...
Is that Black Cherry? If so and it looks to have a bit of a wave to its grain, you may be better off with a high quality smoother if you haven't got one already. Hard to make a wrong decision buying a good performing smooth plane. Its a purchase I think few regret.Adam
Black Cherry it is! from a tree that came down in my yard 4 years ago. Great call, bad resolution picture and all. So, do you have a recommendation on a high quality smoother? Thanks againjack
Hi Jack,The stands look good. If the aprons/table rails are 1/32" inside the legs, then I'd leave them alone. A bit of sandpaper to get the burn marks out and it's done (although a plane is the proper tool that gives a crisper edge and a neater finish.)I'd personally ignore the cries to get a block plane that you see in all the tool magazines and get a general hand plane. A No5 plane can be used in many situations, but, as Derek alluded to, I use a No6. A 5 1/2 is a good compromise as well.Honestly, after a while a block plane is a dinky little toy that sees little use - for the smaller work, I use a shoulder plane or a bullnose plane if I need to. I did buy one of the Lee Valley knockoffs of the very small thumb plane to clean up the small areas if needed. Haven't used it yet in anger.Cheers,eddie
Edited 11/6/2007 3:30 am by eddiefromAustralia
I've ummmmmmmmmm...... 5 L-N block planes (nooo I don't have a fetish.... honest Guv)... said goodbye to regrets as soon as I'd bought the first one... no more would I need to blow head gaskets trying to use their predecessors... (names omitted to protect the shameless)...
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
I have the Lie-Nelsen and love it. But, then, I have 4 others, and after I bought the first one, never considered another brand. I'm a hobbiest, and not a pro, but those tools are sweet! I've heard nothing but good things about Veritas, so I'm sure you could not go wrong with either. Good luck on the decision and enjoy the new toy.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Went to Highland Woodworking the other week to purchase a spoke shave for a project. The salesman went to the back room and brought out an LN shave. As soon as I touched it I realized why I do not like their tools - it was too small for my hands. Now, the fact that I don't like their tools does not extend to all of them as I have only put my hands on a dozen or so.
All of this goes to say that I vote for Lee Valley as they are a larger tool and fit my hands better.
To me how it feels in my hands is very important - the tool needs to be comfortable to hold, easy to use, and, I hate to be etherial, but it needs to feel right.
Bottom line: You can't go wrong w/ almost any well made high quality plane.
I have a Stanley I probably didn't pay more than $25- I keep it sharp, it's as good as I am-
I went with the Veritas Low Angle Smooth plane, and a relatively inexpensive Anant block plane. I absolutely LOVE the Veritas. The Anant is kinda crappy, but I've honed the blade well enough to take the finest of shavings, and don't anticipate using it all that much.
I appreciate all the feedback. Without it, I would have spent the big bucks on a block plane and then wished I bought the LA Smoother.
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