Replies

1. 
   Floss | Jan 10, 2007 03:26am | #1

   If you run all your pieces through the planer at the same time(which you should) there should be no difference in thickness.

   1/32" on each end of a door that is 6'8" tall could in essence twist the whole slab so that it would not close properly.

   Personally I would not use solid lumber for doors.

   Google stave core construction and read all you can about how to use multiple pieces of a lesser grade lumber to build a more stable and smoothly operating door.

   Stave core construction has been used for about 300 years for all types of furniture and architectural doors.

   Solid lumber is nice, but unless it is quartersawn, you will most likely run into some issues with the fitting and hanging.

   Been there done that.

   J.P.

   http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
2. 
   [email protected] | Jan 10, 2007 05:59am | #2

   Take off less on the next pass, and keep the feed rate constant.   My guess is you are lifting / pushing vertically , and/or varying the feed rate as you feed the wood into the jointer.  But if your wood was off 1/8th to start with and your only taking 1/32 off per pass it will take at least four passes to get it straight, and probably a fifth.

   As you get close you can take less off with each pass, until you get clean surface with out irregularities.  If you have 1/32 irregularities, set the jointer to take that much off.  The final pass should barely skim the surface.  If you have the tables true and parallel the wood will end up true and straight. 

   I just reread this, and realized that maybe what your seeing is planer or jointer snipe.  It the irregularity at the ends?

   
   

   ---

   Edited 1/9/2007 11:14 pm ET by Jigs-n-fixtures

1. 
   brad805 | Jan 10, 2007 08:13pm | #6

   There was a small degree of snipe, and honestly I did not look at this close enough as this first project was just a storage rack.  I dont recall the irregularties being at the ends, but I do remember thinking that the task of keeping the stock level when starting milling was much more difficult than the descriptions in the articles.  I am sure glad that I decided to practice with a test project.  I had planned to allow an extra couple of inches at each end when I start the door project. 

   The jointer set to 1/32" for all passes.  The stock was either cupped or twisted approx 1/8" or more.  Sounds like more practice is necessary.  The bench is next, I have some 8/4 birch to try on now.  I will try to follow your suggestions carefully.

   Thanks

3. 
   lwilliams | Jan 10, 2007 06:12am | #3

   Can you explain what technique you are using--what machines or hand tools?

   It's hard to offer much help if we don't know how you are going about things. Properly prepared stock should end up pretty uniform, straight and flat. Errors in stock preparation compound themselves as you get farther into the project. The most careful and accurate joinery won't do you much good if you don't start out with true stock.

4. 
   oldusty | Jan 10, 2007 09:00am | #4

     Hi brad805 ,

                  What type of door will you build ? will it be Frame and panel ? solid raised panels ? flat recessed plywood panels ?

           What type of joinery will be used ? M & T ?  cope and stick ?

            It was hard to advise you based on the info you have given

               tell us more

                         dusty

1. 
   brad805 | Jan 10, 2007 08:02pm | #5

   You guys are great.  Thanks.  A little more info, ok.  Should have figured this, I know I am talking with many professionals with years and years experience. 

   Tools:

   I am using a 6" jointer, 13" planer, table saw and a cut-off saw for milling the lumber.  I researched this site for tricks/tips for milling.

   Door Info:

   Attached is a preliminary drawing of the door I was planning (going to re-consider).  The design is based on an article from FWW.  I was planning to used mortise and tenon joints throughout prepared using the table saw with a tenon jig and router and a jig similar to an article in FWW. 

   New question:

   For my test project (lumber storage rack) I used good ol SPF framing lumber.  I know this will be much more prone to shrink/twist/cup after milling, but when I got home last night I noticed that the lumber had cupped quite significantly over night.  I had stacked the lumber tightly without spacers and I realize that this is not a good practice.  I read one article where the fellow described milling with an allowance to re-mill after a couple of nights.  What is your opinion about this practice?

   Thanks to all.

   
1. 
   Rich14 | Jan 10, 2007 09:13pm | #8

   Brad,

   "I read one article where the fellow described milling with an allowance to re-mill after a couple of nights.  What is your opinion about this practice?"

   That is always the best way to go about preparing material. After the first "approximate" milling of wood that has first been allowed to equilibrate with shop conditions, there still will probably be some residual movement. Let it settle down, then do the final milling at desired size. It should not change dimension after that.

   Also, read JP's advice about "stave core" construction of the rails and stiles of your door. Stave core is a much more stable (and lighter) construction than solid wood, especially for outside doors.

   Rich

1. 
   brad805 | Jan 10, 2007 09:54pm | #9

   I am definetly going to consider the stave door construction suggested.  I have been thinking about the weight issue of the door of late. 

   Pretty darn impressed with the help from all.

1. 
   JohnWW | Jan 10, 2007 11:14pm | #12

   Stave core is still all wood and will weigh about the same as a door made from solid lumber.  The only weight saving, and it would be minor, would be that the wood in the center of the stiles and rails could be pine rather than a hardwood that would probably be denser.  The major advantage to stave core is that it more stable than solid wood, not that it saves weight.

   John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine 

2. 
   Rich14 | Jan 10, 2007 11:48pm | #13

   John,

   I had mentioned that stave core construction was much more stable than solid wood, and, parenthetically said it also was lighter.

   It may be an unintended consequence, but stave core is, in fact, almost always lighter than solid wood door construction. Stave core is frequently, though not always, made up of a soft wood "laminated" with outer plys of a face hardwood. The softwood, of course makes it lighter than a solid stile or rail of hardwood.

   But even when a hardwood is used for the internal construction, it is usually of a lower density (ex poplar) than the oak, maple, mahogany or more exotic external wood of the door. The total density is less than if the door were made entirely of the face hardwood.

   Rich

2. 
   oldusty | Jan 10, 2007 10:19pm | #11

   brad ,

               At first glance the T&G  solid stock to me looks as though the design may not leave enough room for the movement that will occur . It could pop that door frame apart in wetter times of the year from seasonal effects .Perhaps that is a change you have considered .

            As far as re machining your stock goes , imo it depends on how much time passes after cutting and the conditions in your space . With dry stock I have found if I get it clamped up and machined soon it keeps straight and will not move as much .

                        dusty

5. 
   frenchy | Jan 10, 2007 08:44pm | #7

   brad805

        Every place I visit that makes interior doors be they a small custom shop or a big mass produced assembly point has some variations on their work.   If they didn't I doubt they'd all run things thru those big drum sanders or  stand there and carefull sand everything  smooth and level..

      Perfection isn't practical when working with wood.. I know darn few who succeed at perfection.  Nice goal but live with what you have..

     

1. 
   brad805 | Jan 10, 2007 09:58pm | #10

   My goal is that the doors appear and function as though done by a professional.  Too many times I have seen projects taken on by a "handyman" that clearly look poorly built.  As an engineer, I have been trained to worry about details.

    

1. 
   frenchy | Jan 11, 2007 10:02pm | #15

   brad805,

    Ok then sand!

    every shop I know of has them or does it..

     You aren't milling steel, you're working with wood..  you don't weld it ,you glue it.. you don't bolt it, you nail it..

6. 
   cadiddlehopper | Jan 11, 2007 12:03am | #14

   Don't ignore JP's remark about quartersawn lumber either.

   Cadiddlehopper

1. 
   brad805 | Jan 19, 2007 08:26pm | #16

   I checked over the stock closely and have made some adjustments to the jointer (also found a nick in one blade) to improve.  I have been reading about stave core construction and agree that would be the way to go.  Thing is I already have the cherry 6/4 and 8/4 cherry stock in the basement adjusting to its new climate (not quartersawn).  The relative humidity typically hovers around the 20 - 30% in our area.  Would it be worthwhile to cut the stock into smaller pieces and laminate it together to change the grain orientation?  This would be a lot of work, but I would prefer to build the doors only once.

   Thanks for all your help.

1. 
   jeanlou | Jan 20, 2007 05:04am | #17

   Brad805,

   If you want to rip the boards and relaminate, look at the end grain. It the grain is relatively straight lined, even if is is on an angle, do not waste your time and energy. If the end grain is curved, like half circles and you can see the core, or imagine where the core should be, that is where you want to rip the board, splitting the core, and then reglue so that the grain pattern then resembles a herringbone. The two pieces will work in a way that will help to stabilize the glue up. You can make solid wood doors, but you need to have a clear understanding of how the wood will move and insure that you have allowed for the movement.  JL

1. 
   brad805 | Jan 22, 2007 07:08pm | #18

   thanks for the advice.

1. 
   jeanlou | Jan 23, 2007 02:44am | #19

   Pleasure.

2. 
   Floss | Jan 23, 2007 05:54am | #20

   If you have a band saw you could make your own door veneer and order the staves edged in cherry. Although veneering the staves would be a little hectic without a vacuum bag or veneer press.If you resaw the pieces and try and glue them back together, you may not have enough material if the pieces cup. If they cup too bad you may have to remove too much material to get out the cup. Since you have done the preliminary milling, has the wood moved much?If not, then maybe just go ahead as planned.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com

1. 
   brad805 | Jan 23, 2007 07:19pm | #21

   i do not have a band saw and i don't think I want to add one right now (project is dipping into the bank big time).  I have not touched one piece yet.  I had never planned on the garage prep part of the project taking so long, and I ordered the material months ago.  All of the stock has been sitting neatly stacked in the basement.   I think I will do the rough milling for one door and see how the material reacts. 

   Took a look at your website, very nice pieces you build.