I bought fir 2x4s at a local lumberyard and asked them to cut them in half. Twice, the clerk offered to let me select the wood but I said Not necessary. I didn’t care if the wood had flaws in appearance; it would become a small workbench in an environment where it is bound to take a beating.
That may have been a mistake. Much of the wood had black dots that I assumed were mold and mildew. And while I neither expected nor needed sharp lengthwise corners, one piece was missing a surprising (to me) amount of wood.
Still, no big deal; I sprayed the wood with a 10% bleach solution and sited the banged-up piece where it would be least noticeable. But when I assembled the bench, several of the self-cutting screws spun freely. Evidently, some interior portions of the wood were mush. No sign of termites.
Could this be dry rot, and is the stuff “catching” (i.e., is the rest of the house in danger)?
Is it normal for lumberyards to sell wood with water damage? Rain is rare here in southern California, and this lumberyard keeps its stock outdoors and uncovered.
Replies
No I don't think your house is in danger, unless it is built out of the same stuff you just bought. It's amazing sometimes what shows up at lumber yards for sale. The wood is often so wet that you can get water by hitting it with a hammer. Nick
What grade of lumber did you specify? There is an acceptable level of quality for different grades. The wane you mention (the missing edge - I believe that's what it's called) gives me the impression that this was what we here in the Pacific NW would call 'utility' although even standard and better can be pretty rough.
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To be honest, I can't remember because I was jittery from something else*. If he asked me, I would have said "cheapest,"--but it never crossed my mind that a lumberyard would keep, much less sell, wood that had mushy areas.
*I was in my car, turning the corner to get to the lumberyarn, and there were a lot of men standing on the sidewalk doing nothing. I figured they were on strike. They ran up to my car and all started waving and talking at once in Spanish, which I don't understand. I thought, Oh no, I must have crossed their picket line and they're telling me to go away.
They finally realized that I was totally baffled, and stepped aside. At the lumberyard they told me that these men were day-laborers and they thought I was there to hire one. So that was explained satisfactorily, but it took a good hour for me to calm down from "crossing the picket line."
Utility lumber is often used for concrete formwork or such things as temporary stuff like that.
The dark spots were probably fungus type growth from being outside and wet. Wood is such a great attraction to this kind of small beasties.
As used for a workbench, I gather you're something like myself in that you intend to use your bench somewhat "thoroughly". I built a couple benches in my garage in a similar fashion laminating up some plain ol' 2 bu fers that works great for rough stuff. Plus I don't mind pounding nails or screwing screws into the top to hold things down when need be.
In your case, though, I suspect as wet as the lumber sounded from your original post you'll get some gap-osis between the boards after a time. I did and I used kiln dried lumber that had been stored indoors and purchased it during the summer months.
There was a recent thread regarding building up a bench top in this manner. There was no clear consensus that I remember with respect to using something like all-thread through the pieces to keep them tight. I used it but more so as a clamping device for the glue-up than to squish things together. As noted, though, it didn't prevent cracks from developing between the individual boards over time.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
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Yes, this workbench is going to get a lot of use, and it's not fancy, but it was inexpensive and quick to make. I found instructions at http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/fliers/F-DIYA-WB.pdf and the connectors at Home Depot.
Dennis,
If there are standards applied to 2x4 studs, I'd be surprized. The problem with these things is two-fold:
improper/insufficient drying that leads to twisting and warping.
lumber cut from "stud bolts" which are seldom more than 5" in diameter and very unstable.
For good 2x4s, buy from a small lumber yard that knows what to buy and how to take care of them.
(I recently stopped at HD and purchased some beautiful "Premium" spruce studs for a bench top. Put them in the shop, and checked them a few days later. They looked like pretzels.)
Jeff
I agree, Jeff, you have to know and understand the lumber grading rules to get what you expect. And the casual DYI places don't place a very high degree of quality with respect to their specifications. But there are indeed grading rules for framing lumber. Which rules govern the particular material and whose rules are used would probably make a difference, too.
You're right as well - buy lumber from a lumber yard. Buy hardware at a hardware store. By beer at the brew pup.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
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Dennis,
I never sawed much pine or spruce, mostly hardwood. However, whenever we sawed to the point where we got "spike knots", we'd stop there and leave that section of the log in-tact to be used as a beam.
Rotten, cracked wood, of any species, went to the boilers.
Jeff
Why couldn't a person purchase 2 x 8", 10" or 12" & let them set in the shop for a few weeks or months depending on how dry the material is, then rip the material length wise to 3" wide & turn them so the grain is vertical.
Then my thought is to use biscuits just to help with alignment glue up in 4 board sections then glue 2 4 board sections together & then 2 8 board sections together until the depth desired is reached. In my case it will be 36" deep & 60" long as a back off feed table combination wood working bench for my table saw.
Dennis do you know of somewhere here in Washington (I live up on Whidbey Island) that I can get yellow pine at a reasonable cost if not I'll need to go with straight grain vertical fir. There just isn’t any free lunch when it comes to good wood for a bench top. I am thinking of making the bench that was in the August Popular Woodworking. The differences would be that it is 36" x 60".The tool case sides & back would come up a little higher than the top of the case so that some extended glides could be fastened to make a pull out tool shelf. The tool case would only be somewhere between 22" & 24" deep this would allow room for the motor of my contractor tablesaw. I am hoping to make the bench movable with some type of kick down wheels.
Some thoughts would be appreciated. The bench in the magazine has the legs going straight to the floor with no feet. This is fine with me. However I want the tool case to use as much of the under bench area as possible. I am thinking of putting feet on the legs & stretchers from the foot on one end of the bench to the foot on the other end of the bench & set the tool case on top of these stretchers & screw through the sides of the tool case into the legs. This way I would not need the 2 x 7" board across the front & back. I think the stretchers & tool case being fastened together should make the bench support system heavy & stiff enough to do all that is required. I also plan to make the height of the top 3/8" shorter than the top of the saw so there will be no need to route miter slots into the top. If I need to do a lot of ripping I can put a 3/8" piece of plywood on top of the bench, other wise the miter guage & sled runners will slide on top of the bench. This is a user bench for making furniture not a piece of furniture to make furniture on.
So what are your thoughts Knotheads?
Bart -
I got some pretty good looking pine at Dunn Lumber a while back to use as trim (painted) around a door in the house. But we're talking small stuff like 2x2 and I don't know that it was 'yellow' pine or not (what other kinds of pine are used as lumber??)
Whether or not they have larger dimensioned lumber can't say.
Your idea of milling your own 3" lumber from larger sizes seems sound although might add some to the cost. I'm like you - I'll suffer through the knots and wane (hidden on the bottom) in order to have a good solid surface I can bang on and not worry about marring the finish. Not building furniture at this juncture but that might change. The only thing constant is change, ya know.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
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Guess I've been lucky buying framing lumber, Jeff - I've never rec'd rotten or cracked material. Oh - some of it split really easy if you pounded a nail too close to end but....
If you want good stuff for framing you need to specify #1structural hem/fir. Then expect to get half of it as larch, too.
My Douglas Fir Use Book dates from my college days ('65-'71) so I doubt if anything in it is relevant to today's standards. 'Course, back then you could still find decent trees to make lumber out of.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
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I am currently in the final stages of building a closet with built-in drawers and a cabinet on top. Since I didn't want to make such a large piece out of walnut (even though I have thousands of board feet of the stuff in my barns), I decided to make it out of birch plywood and regular dimensional pine (1" and 2" stuff), and then paint it to match the white trim in the room. The closet is replacing one built from 2x4s and panelling made by the former amish homeowners.
I wanted to use quality material, but the cost of clear pine is outrageous. Instead, I carefully selected material from some of the local Lowe's stores (there are at least four that I pass by on my 40 mile commute from work to home.) When I browsed the lumber area, I kept in mind what I would need for my project. If the lumber in stock at one store didn't pass muster, I would try another, or come back when the store had restocked. In one instance, I dug through an entire stack of 8 foot 1x6s, and managed to find two prefectly clear boards. On another trip, I stumbled across a 12-piece bundle of 6 foot 1x3s that hadn't yet been unbanded. There wasn't a knot in the bunch, so I bought them all. When picking through the stacks, I also kept in mind the dimensions of my finished parts and how I could cut around any knots or other problems.
I realize that this method is not for everyone, because it takes time and patience. I have been working on the closet since July, and hope to be finished in another few weeks. However, regular dimensional lumber is about one-fourth the cost of clear pine, so it makes sense for me and my budget. The results are certainly worth the effort. The closet is nearly comlete except for the drawers and cabinet doors, and there are no visible knots. My wife even suggested that we stain the wood rather than paint it.
Ideally, I would like to be able to go to a lumber yard and buy all my materials at once, to minimize delays. However, the reality is that the quality of lumber available at most yards and home centers is pathetic, and you have to be willing to pick through a lot of piles to find the good stuff.
That sound like a good idea. The closest Lowes is 30 miles 1 way & Home Depot is about 1 hour south or north. I have 2 lumber yards with in 12 miles & maybe another 15 miles away in Anacortes but I am not sure about this because the Copeland lumber yard there closed & I don't know if there is another yard available. There is a business that deals in materials for boats.
Bart,
I've found it helpful to speak with reputable builders who don't have the time or patience to sort through piles of junk. They usually know the best local suppliers.
Jeff
Thanks for the reply Jeff. I could talk to the contractors around here till the cow come home there is still way to few choices to choose from when it comes to buying materials close to home.
Sometimes one can find small, behind the barn sawmills that do a nice job. (They usually charge half the price or less of a lumber yard.) Wood needs to be planed and sized, but when you do it yourself, you know it's being done right.
Jeff
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