Replies

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Nov 13, 2002 04:30am | #1

   Dano,

   Welcome to the forum!

   The 1.3 needle/nozzle is a good size for water-base finishes. Different brands of finish have different "thicknesses," called viscosity. Some are watery and some are syrupy. I haven't used the Varathane, so I'm not sure what it's like. Fill your cup 1/2 way and do some test spraying - if you can't get it to atomize well (form small, mist like droplets), you may need to thin the finish (or turn up the air pressure, depending on the brand of spray gun and current setting). If you do thin, you should do it in 5% increments, up to 25%. Usually, a little water makes a big difference with water-base finishes.

   Clean the gun according to the manual after each use/day and you shouldn't have any problems.

   You may want to get a copy of Andy Charron's book, "Spray Finishing." It covers all the bases on the subject and should help you get good results in less time.

   If you have specific questions, re-post anytime.

   Paul

   F'burg, VA

1. 
   danman71 | Nov 13, 2002 04:58am | #2

   Thank you very much for the quick response Paul, I appreciate it.  This forum thing is pretty great.

   The gun is a ProTek 2000LVLP-G and the Varathane finish is a little more viscous than Behr's water based finish, if that helps.

   thanks again,

   Dano

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Nov 13, 2002 05:30am | #3

   Dano, Glad to help you get started with spraying!

   Sounds like the Varathane should spray fine without thinning.

   I haven't found much on the subject of sraying on the web, but this link has some info on technique - http://buy.ppg.com/osc/Applications/app1.asp

   Paul

   F'burg, VA

1. 
   Sancho | Nov 13, 2002 05:53am | #4

   Hi dano and welcome aboard. I have a accuspray lvlp system and Ive sprayed varathane through it with ok results. I changed to enduro coat at http://www.compliantspraysystems.com it got pretty good results. I also used a sanding sealer before i put on the enduro finish. What is the manufacturers name? If its a cheaper brand that may be part of you prob. Do you have the air adj properly that may also be part of your prob. Mine uses 30psi from the compressor w/less than 10 psi in the cup. The least usable pressure should give you the best possible finish. (If that makes sense). Anyway bottem line is try adj your air and your material and maybe changing finishes. BTW did I mention I spray the enduro at full strength and dont have to thin. Hope this helps

   At Darkworks cut to size made to burn......Putty isnt a option

2. 
   sneezy | Nov 28, 2002 08:10am | #5

   There are 3 really good waterbrorne products that I'm sure are available  in Quebec. Two of them are made in Canada and I have heard good comments about them from American users.  I think you'll like spraying any of them far more than Varathane.

   Try Chemcraft, Becker Acroma Akva-line, or ML Campbell Ultrastar. Not being a pro finisher, I had a hard time tracking down a supplier, but I'm sure you can get some leads from the internet.

   My favourite has been MLCampbell, but the only one I could get here  in quarts was the Becker and it's fine.

   None of these require dilution, but can be thinned 5% with water.

1. 
   Joe_Fusco | Nov 29, 2002 06:15am | #6

   I'm also a fan of ML Campbell UltraStar, but just the other day I had a chance to use a product from Fuhr International. The product is a Waterborne Acrylic Varnish called 355. I did some testing and have a review on my site. Feel free to read it.

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1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Nov 29, 2002 08:07am | #7

   Joe - your site mentions Target Coatings - but it looks like you haven't tried them yet.

   When you do your testing, include some samples of very darkly stained, open pored woods AND some dyed woods to see which product you like best. If you ever rub out your finishes, give both a try with that test also.

   I've use both Fuhr and Target in large quantities and would be interested in your side-by-side evaluation of the two.

   Paul

   F'burg, VA

1. 
   Joe_Fusco | Nov 29, 2002 04:45pm | #8

   Paul,

   Sure. I'm more then happy to tell of my experiences with any product I use. Since you have used both products, can you share some of what you've found out about the both of them?

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2. 
   Joe_Fusco | Nov 30, 2002 07:59pm | #9

   Paul,

   Here is some information on how both these finishes did in the acid (acetone) test. I'm still looking forward to your comment on the Target Coats compared to either Fuhr or ML Campbell Utrastar. That is, if you have any.

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1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Nov 30, 2002 11:23pm | #10

   Hi Joe - I didn't intend to create some sort of challenge with my request that you provide some feeback in the case you do some side-by-side testing of products. I was simply interested in an independant opinion. Your statement "That is, if you have any." strikes me a little odd and I'm not sure of the implication; but it seems you're implying I have no basis to form an opinion. I do have an opinion based on experiences with both Fuhr and Target coatings water-based finishing products, but was hoping to get an unbiased opinion from you. I haven't used the water-base finish from ML Campbell, though I do use some of their other products.

   I used Fuhr 355 for well over a year and went through 5-10 gallons a week (I'll estimate 300 - 400 gallons). On 3 occasions, I had to re-do an entire week's work (click here to see a typical weeks' finishing for me - http://www.boomspeed.com/firstfinish/ReadyToGo.jpg ) because the finish had a horrible bluish, plastic look to it. Also, I consistently had a problem with the finish bridging pores, leaving a white spot over the pore that was unacceptable. The fix for this problem was far too time consuming and irritating. In addition, the Fuhr doesn't have quite the clarity of other water-based finishes I've used.

   I'm now using the products from Target Coatings and all my problems have been resolved. The finishes from Target do take longer to cure - generally 100 hours, so I wouln't recommend doing any chemical or abrasion testing for the first week. Most of their coatings dry for stacking in under a day. The premium spray lacquer (PSL) from Target has 100% burn-in bewteen coats, and combined with it's clarity, it has superior rubbing out properties. To achieve a "high-end" finish using a water-base product, Target would absolutely be my choice.  Athough the PSL is not Target's most durable finish, it will perform in a manner considered identical to CAB lacquers in terms of chemical and water resistance. In regards to the hardness ratings, the testing results on PSL push it into the conversion varnish arena. The PSL stradles the perfomance values of standard, solvent-based coatings commonly used for kitchen cabinets and case good applications.  In cases where I need a VERY durable finish, with a great look, I use one of the other products from Target - either their super clear polyurethane (table-tops for example) or conversion varnish.

   There are many water-base products I haven't used, UltraStar and Enduro for example, so I can only say that of the products I have tried, Target has given me the best results.

   Paul F'burg, VA

   Edited 11/30/2002 3:45:20 PM ET by Paul S

2. 
   Joe_Fusco | Dec 01, 2002 12:43am | #11

   Paul,

   I made no other implication other then if you have an opinion then give it. I asked you and you didn't reply. Not even to say I don't want to bias your opinion with mine while you're doing some tests on the product.None of that withstanding, I really appreciated the time you've taken to give your opinion and why you have it. Thank you.I've done an adhesion test also and once again Fuhr 355 preformed quite well. I have noticed that there is a slight case to the finish, but I've noticed that to varying degrees in many if not all WB products I've used. As far as finishing goes. . . well. . .some jobs require more then others. . .

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   Edited 11/30/2002 4:59:37 PM ET by J Fusco

3. 
   danman71 | Dec 09, 2002 06:28am | #12

   Hey guys,

   Thanks for all the info.  It's more than I ever expected to get.  It's great to see (actually, read) that everyone who contributes to this forum has a passion for woodworking, that common bond.

   'Til next time,

   Dano