Replies

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Mar 31, 2007 12:15am | #1

   Is this new work?

   Have you tried a finish? If so, what and what has been the result?

   Why would you throw the wood in the fireplace?

   Howie.........
1. 
   Rich14 | Mar 31, 2007 12:19am | #3

   We posted just about simultaneously!

2. 
   Rich14 | Mar 31, 2007 12:16am | #2

   Whoa! Don't do that!

   What finishes have you tried?

   Rich

1. 
   Icantgetaname | Mar 31, 2007 01:02am | #7

   I tried a product called cetol (sp) and it didn't last.  Chipped up and peeled off.  I took the whole thing apart.  Sanded everything off and went with a hardware store outdoor poly.  That has not lasted and now there are many long cracks and discoloration.  What could I fill the cracks with?

   Thanks.

   Rich also

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Mar 31, 2007 01:31am | #8

   Outdoor finishes are quite a problem.  Their is NO finish that will last without regular maintenance.  (If you need a deck rail that you don't have to touch for 3 years, the ONLY way to do that is with 316 stainless steel.)   If you go the oil route count on applying another coat about every other month or so.  You will have to sand slightly before you do it since you don't want an oil (oil/varnish probably) finish to build up on the surface. 

   Hardward store "outdoor poly" might last a few months more than the oil, but be a lot harder to maintain since the instant the finish starts to peel off, it must all be removed and you start over.  Therefore, for a film finish you need the best there is.  This is only found at marine supply stores.  There are three varieties to consider--Epifanes Gloss, Interlux Schooner, or Pettit Captain's.  Any less expensive alternative is an imposter.  And, you can't skimp on the directions.  After sanding down to fresh bare wood, apply the first coat thinned heavily, the next somewhat less, and the apply 4 or 5 more coats thinned just enough for brushability, sanding lightly with 320 grit.  Then, every spring when the weather warms up, you should scuff sand and apply another coat.  If you are far enough South that you could apply varnish practically all year, you should expect to sand and add a coat twice a year.  If it doesn't warm up enough to apply varnish until July, you can probably go every other year. 

   The best solution might be to sand off the old finish and then do nothing.  Honduras Mahogany heartwood will weather quite well and end up a nice grey color.  Surfaces might check a bit, but the splits should be superficial. 

   The other low maintenance option is paint.  Sand to bare wood, prime and apply two coats of a very good exterior enamel in a light color.  This is sacriledge to do over mahogany, of course. 

    

2. 
   Rich14 | Mar 31, 2007 01:57am | #9

   Rich,

   Go with Steve's advice. Marine spar varnish was what I would have recommended and he's outlined just that. The hardware poly you bought cannot possibly stand up to the elements.

   Only the very expensive stuff will do, believe those of us who have maintained teak on boats! Only spar varnish has the flexibility to withstand the outdoor stress that it will get, and only those brands mentioned will have the ability to stand up to UV. It's available only at marine supply stores. I don't know if you can get it in quantities less than a gallon and the gallon price will take your breath away.

   I don't know anything about the oil product mentioned.

   Rich

   Edited 3/30/2007 6:58 pm ET by Rich14

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Mar 31, 2007 04:35am | #12

   Fortunately, the marine varnishes are available in quarts (liter for Epifanes) and Epifanes even come in 1/2 liter and 1/4 liter sizes, though only some chandleries carry the smaller sizes.  (A liter of Epifanes, at the cheapest place I know is $24.99 plus shipping.)  At the same place, the Interlux Schooner is $23.99 and the Pettit Captain's is $21.99.  ( http://www.defender.com )  The prices do pretty much reflect the consensus on overall quality, though they are all close enough that it wouldn't be a very heated argument in the club. 

1. 
   Rich14 | Mar 31, 2007 04:08pm | #13

   Yep. I Googled "Marine Spar Varnish" and got lots of sources of supply for various quantities less than gallon size. Here's another: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/search.do?freeText=Spar%20Varnish&page=GRID&history=&engine=adwords!6456&keyword=%28Marine+Spar+Varnish%29&match_type=

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Mar 31, 2007 07:20pm | #14

   Jamestown Distributors is a great source. I wish I had a nickel for every dollar I have spent there over the years. If you want anything marine, they are the folks to talk to. Their service on telephone and internet orders has been excellent but I used to drive up there when I really needed something big or fast.I also what to stress something you and Steve (another boater) has said. The big box "marine spar poly varnishes" are junk. In the Consumer Reports ongoing tests of outdoor finishes, those products are the first to fail. Poly is not a good finish where UV is present unless it is properly formulated with the proper type and amount of UV protectents. Then, at least 5-6 coats must be applied and, annually, scuff sanded and recoated. Us boaters wish there were some other way, but there isn't.Howie.........

   Edited 3/31/2007 12:26 pm ET by HowardAcheson

3. 
   Kevin | Apr 01, 2007 01:03am | #15

   I know that it's a very different application in many respects from what one deals with on a boat... but have you ever tried automotive clears? What makes me ask is that following this thread made me wonder what they used to use on the old "woodie" cars and trucks and what those who own woodies today use. The very spar varnishes suggested here turn up in "how-to" discussions for woodies that I've found online. But some of them are using automotive clears and claim that they vastly outlast marine spar varnish in that they don't require the yearly or bi-yearly maintainance that spar varnish requires.

   Here's a very interesting article on both historic and modern finishes for woodies: http://www.oldwoodies.com/shoptalk_refinish.htm

   I would be interested in hearing the thoughts of yourself and other boat refinishers as to the pros and cons of these two types of exterior finish materials... aside from the obvious toxicity and the need for spray equipment with automotive clears. 

    

4. 
   SteveSchoene | Apr 01, 2007 04:07am | #16

   I suspect that the problem with the clear urethanes is not that the finish material isn't durable-- over metal or fiberglass it is very, very durable.  But over wood, I doubt that the wood is as well protected by them as by the thick traditional varnish coatings.  So, if UV starts to deteriorate the wood fibers the whole system can fail.  There are brush appliable two part urethane clear varnish on the market, but I don't think it has had a big impact, except as a clear coat over pigmented urethane coatings. 

5. 
   Kevin | Apr 01, 2007 04:34am | #17

   That's all more of less what I would have thought. Which is why I went searching for what the woodie owners use and recommend. It seems that at least some of them consider the automotive urethanes to offer superior protection in that it doesn't require the maintainance that marine spar varnish requires.

   I'm curious as to the source of your doubt. Is it about UV protection? Flexibility?

6. 
   SteveSchoene | Apr 01, 2007 05:02am | #18

   I think it is a little of each factor.  Certainly flexibility might be a problem.  Interlux recommends against using their two part urethanes on flexible boat construction warning about cracking.  As for UV protection, it always seems that thickness is very helpful, but I don't think that's appropriate for the two-part urethanes.  I think that if it were really superior for teak, that it would be widely used, at least in one part of the yachting market.  But, even in yards where professionals do all the work they are applying Epifanes to teak brightwork.  

   I also wonder about how much protection is needed for restored woodies.  How many of them are parked in full sun for 6, 7 or 8 months of the year?    I'd be surprised if many of them see the sun for more than 30 days a year.  They're not usually daily drivers.

   Edited 3/31/2007 10:06 pm ET by SteveSchoene

7. 
   Kevin | Apr 01, 2007 07:36am | #19

   I'm not familiar with Interlux products. It may be that they are chemically more akin to the older style automotive clears. Many of the older clears had to have a special "flex" additive put in to meet the criteria for like flexible bumpers and stuff like that where super flexibility is absolutely required to maintain adhesion. The newer stuff like the DuPont product cited in that woodie article is fully flex rated right out of the can. I would be highly surprised if any marine spar varnish is *more* flexible than they are.

   I've only finished Teak once and it was a number of years ago... some kind of store fixtures going into a shop in Hawaii as I recall. What I remember was a lot of warnings about it's oily nature. I suspect that automotive clears would be less than ideal over an oily wood. And that may well be a rather large factor in why they aren't used on boats.  

3. 
   Tom7 | Mar 31, 2007 12:25am | #4

   I have a solution for you.

   I have Ipe handrails and boards on my deck.  I use TWP 116 Rustic by Gemini Coatings on them.  TWP stands for Total Wood Preservative.  It is an oil/stain combination.  It produces a beautiful color.  Just wipe or brush it on once a year.  I usually put on two coats with one day dry time between coats.  It is important to apply it when the temperature is above 80 degrees so it dries well.  The Ipe nevers turns gray and looks just like new.

   Do a Google search to find sources for the product.  It is well worth getting.  I found out about it from a deck contractor in Kansas City that does a lot of posting on deck sites.  He has used it for years and wouldn't use anything else.  I agree with him after three years expereince with it.  It works just as well on mahogany as Ipe.

   I have put on as many as six coats over a week.  It builds nicely to an even nicer finish.  It has never peeled though it does get lighter after a year and needs recoating to restore it.  But recoating is so easy it has never been a big deal.

1. 
   Rich14 | Mar 31, 2007 12:46am | #5

   Tom,

   That sounds interesting. We don't know the nature ofthe problem he's having. I would have recommended marine spar varnish, but the TWP sounds a lot easier to apply and renew.

   Rich

1. 
   Kevin | Mar 31, 2007 02:18am | #10

   Ditto... everything you said. I've stayed out of it though since it's well outside my experience. But from what y'all have said in the past I thought of recommending spar varnish. The TWP does sound interesting though. In some ways it might be better. As is always the case it's a matter of weighing the trade-offs.

2. 
   Icantgetaname | Mar 31, 2007 12:55am | #6

   Thanks very much for the response.  I will try it.  It will be a long time before it stays above 80 up here in Maine but that will give me time to track down the stuff.

   I was just kidding about the wood stove.

4. 
   user-83153 | Mar 31, 2007 02:59am | #11

   If you don't mind a semi-transparent stain/finish combo try One Time Wood. It is garuanteed for something like 8 years. I know this sounds to good to be true, but it actually works.

                   Rob