Although I’ve worked wood since I was a youngster and have accumulated a shop full of equipment, it wasn’t until a few years ago that I learned the real value of and skills to use hand tools. But a bow saw remained apart from the more common hand tools generally available until I found plans and kits offered for the Gramercy Bow Saw at www.toolsforwoorkingwood.com. This saw uses a twelve-inch blade (available in three sizes) which makes it ideal for dovetails and other small applications and its relatively small size and light weight are great for detail work. Making the saw parts and assembling them is rewarding in itself, especially since the company offers an inexpensive kit with the blades and pins, but a lathe is needed to turn the handles. I made mine out of canary wood. The company recommends using hickory. Questions?
Replies
Very cool. I may have to buy the kit and try it myself. I use a coping saw now to cut dovetails but I imagine a bow saw would be a big improvement.
Let me know if you get the kit as there are a couple of details that can be improved over theirs.
Okay thanks I will. I just downloaded their PDF plans. I'll see how tight my money supply is this month and let you know if I buy the kit.
You might want to convert the decimals used for the tenons on the stretcher page to fractions so they match the rest of the dimensions. They said something like "Oops!" when I pointed it out to them.
"They said something like "Oops!" when I pointed it out to them." Too funny. I've been intrigued by the bow saw, side-effect of watching quite a bit of Roy Underhill years ago. Thanks for posting the info.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yes I see. Thanks for pointing that out. Detail B looks a little silly with decimals. Thanks
Mike
>lathe is needed to turn the handles
Jimma,
Very nice bow saw. I enjoy the lines of it and the color.
I include the following for a little contrast ( will make your saw even more beautiful once they see my sorry quick job).
I wasn't sure I would like a bow saw so I threw this guy together for a trial and figured I could finish it when and if . . .
I don't mind the minimalist handles ( dowel stock ) they are surprisingly comfortable to use.
I want to encourage those without a lathe to still make a bow saw. One can still carve and file the handles. See the third pic. I wish I could hang out with some one who is good with this type of saw, Tage Frid back in the day, there is probably allot I don't appreciate.
anyway my two cents
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
That's way cool! Looks like it would work just fine even without the fancy turned handles.Is that an old hack saw blade?
>Is that an old hack saw blade?: )nope. It is a length of band saw blade ( on both saws )>Cool ?
No Jimma's is way cool, mine is an excellent example of the infamous "gitterdone"rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )Edited 6/7/2009 1:41 pm by roc
Edited 6/7/2009 1:43 pm by roc
In my book it's way cool as an example of creativity and typical of how a craftsman can test a concept. Plenty of times I've made a junk prototype or a cardboard mockup as a test. While mine's a lot more finished and "elegant", it's just a copy of somebody else's design with non-functional details. (Could you tell from the photo all the shaping and faceting?) Yours is just as functional. I thought the way you solved the problem of the pins and the blade connection was especially neat. Rock on, Roc . . .
>all the shaping and faceting?Affirmative on the nice shaping.May need more telemetry on faceting.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
The finish on the canary wood is Deft lacquer out of an aerosol can. I think it was their version of a matte finish, or whatever they call it, and then I rubbed it a little with one of those woven abrasive pads just to take any gloss off.Canary wood is one of my favorites and I’ve made a lot of things out of it. It is a little waxy or oily, but feels great and has lots of color running through it plus it takes most finishes quite well. Its one drawback is a tendency to crack or fail along the grain, so routing across grain or drilling through it too fast may cause the grain to separate. Be gentle. It takes shaping well and it’s hard. If you look at the downloadable drawings for the Gramercy saw on the website http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com, you see where they show facets on most of the edges of the parts, especially the stretcher (four edges) and some other non-essential details. But, inasmuch as I wanted this thing to be a showpiece and feel good in my hand -- I mean, who needs a 12-inch bow saw? -- I followed the drawing pretty much except for the brass pins which hold the blade. These have a 1/2 inch collar or shoulder to keep them from pulling through the cheeks and they keep the handles from making positive contact with the cheeks which allows the saw to flop over unles you overtighten the cord and hold it with your finger. So I recessed the collars into the cheeks so the handles are tight against the cheeks. Works great and it’s a fun project.The way I put the facets on the parts was to use an oscillating spindle sander freehand with guide marks pencilled on the workpieces.You can download their plans for free and just make the saw without the pins and blades, but it’s a lot easier than trying to make or scrounge alternatives just to save $25 -- at least for me. Besides, what would I do if I took the blade off my bandsaw?
I see. ThanksI could go for a bow saw this size and I didn't realize it until now. I have tried a coping saw for the root of waste in dovetails while cutting the harder hard woods rather than chisel it all. I switched to a jeweler's saw for better/finer blades and more blade tension but the blade can not be rotated in the frame so throat depth becomes a problem.A little bow saw like yours could provide the blade tension and still allow the optimal blade orientation.For those who have not enlarged the OPs original pic to see the grain up close I recommend it. Beautiful wood.Thanks for posting !rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
You can overcome the problem with the jeweller's saw by installing the blade, then bending it at both ends with pliers to around 45 deg. -- or whatever angle you find best. That way the handle is east-west as you enter the sawcut, but vertical as you remove the waste. I can't imagine that a bow-saw would work any better.
Jim
Jim,Oh that is enlightening. I would have guessed the blade would snap while bending or would unbend while tensioning.Thanks !I like my new jeweler's saw so going to give it a try.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 6/7/2009 7:05 pm by roc
You tension it first, then bend just before you use the saw. I've seen Rob Cosman use this method at woodshows -- he may have a youtube showing how it's done?
Jim
Jim,Isn't that Frank Klaus's trick?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com and now http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Very likely -- I knew of it from somewhere before I saw Cosman show it. But C. has the video, and it beats trying to expain how it's done!
Jim
Yep, he has one here: http://www.robcosman.com/tools_fret.php I use fret/scrollsaw blades, which cut much faster and can fit into a narrow kerf.
Jim
I like your split bolt for the blade holder. I've had problems with a brass rod epoxied in the handle. I'm getting ready to make another saw and will use the bolt this time.
Thanks for the pictures
Roc,
Did you make the shoes with the saw? You truly do Roc.
Seriously, both are great saws. Ahmogitmeoneathem.
--jonnieboy
Added: I should have said ALL are great saws. Fascinating. I_really_goddagitoneathem!
-jb
Edited 7/4/2009 12:45 am ET by jonnieboy
>Did you make the shoes with the saw?No. I do a bit of leather work but not moccasins. These are truly great moccasins made in a traditional style by a friend here in Colorado. He and his father used to own a leather goods shop where all sorts of moccasins and other goods where made, by hand, to order. He would draw around your foot with a pencil while you stood in stocking feet on a piece of card stock and a week or so later the shoes would be sewn using the two needle style by hand ! ! ! Super high quality thick stitching cord. The way the leather is cut and sewn wet makes a stitched area that is truly beautiful to behold. Very finished and professional looking. In fact I am off to take a pic.And werrr back. These pics are of a nicer pair with more interesting detail but the sewing is the same on both and you won't say "why are you still wearing those old things" when you see a close up.The sewing is done while the leather is tacked to a wooden last and wet. The leather would then dry on the last and he would knock the last and it would articulate in the middle so he could get the shoe off. He had pulled out the tacks one by one of course.Labor intensive but, I gathered from watching him, rather a pleasant way to spend ones time while making a living.His name is Charlie and he and his father were small in stature but they did a lot of mountain man rendezvous, ( you know; tipis, muzzle loader rifles and I don't know what all; not my thing ) selling their work there as well.His father would go moose hunting in his seventies and haul one out ! ! !
Was bit by a rattle snake and had a devil of a time recovering from it.They were modern men, drove cars and ran a business on the main drag but spent allot of time living in the old ways that were part of pioneering this country.I have bought several pairs of these moccasins over the last three decades. The sole is an extremely heavy horse neck leather ( I think he said horse; may have been steer ) and this is a natural color ( kind of a super pale gray/yellow when new ) stitched over the normal leather sole of the moc. You could walk around town all day on black top and be happy. I have; but then I don't like shoes with raised heals except dress/business shoes when that is appropriate. But I have worn these vary mocs to plays and the opera. Hey who said that ! Well they aren't for every body. Sure are comfortable though as long as you aren't logging or standing on a ladder etc. Yep, he will resole them.Mostly I wear them around the house but I restored a whole car wearing the moccasins in the other post and they have some chemical burns on them from harsh cleaning solutions.That is probably more than you wanted to know.Here is more. One of the credentials Charlie has under his belt is he is a licensed midwife. Far out huh ? He is a thoughtful and serious person and has several female friends that do this work. So I supose every thing turns out alright.Have a great 4th of July ! * ! * ! *rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )Edited 7/4/2009 3:35 am by rocEdited 7/4/2009 3:45 am by rocEdited 7/4/2009 3:54 am by roc
Edited 7/4/2009 3:59 am by roc
Roc,
Those are some great moccasins! It's also a great story to go with them. Not to go on and on, but what are the insides of the sole made of? They look extremely comfortable.
Jonnieboy
Inside of moc and sole is just "rough" side of leather which is basically suede like. Soft back side of the leather but less regular in texture than suede. Smoothes off with use to be about like the sole leather on the smooth side. These higher ones definitely would not give you a blister on the first time you wore them. I had him make them to fit right with very thick winter wool socks so are about like they are fleece lined then but in warmer weather can wear lighter socks.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
And are the now famous moccasin makers have an on-going business that you can point us to? They look great and look like they would be great in cold, dry snow as well.
Thanks,
Randy
>famous moccasin makers have an on-going business that you can point us to? The dad retired; as I said some years ago he was in his seventies. He passed away several years ago. Charlie works out of his nice garage shop at home so no store front now but I googled and found this.http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_dh8s2xEven better this is where you want to lookhttp://www.mountainpeoplefootwear.comAnd don't miss clicking on the sole link that shows how thick the bottom leather ishttp://www.mountainpeoplefootwear.com/dblSole.jpg>They look great and look like they would be great in cold, dry snow as well.Nah they are like greased grease on snow ! ! ! If you want to wind up on your a$$ just try to make it to the mail box in these mocs in the winter. Thick socks was for around the house or on days with no snow out side. I have always wondered how the old timers dealt with this. I suspect it involved pitch or resin and some gravel but I don't know. I should ask Charlie.He used to provide a moc with a thick crepe sole. Well made but kind of stiff some how. Glad you like them otherwise.Say high from roc the bicycle guy he will know who you mean.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )Edited 7/5/2009 12:57 am by roc
Edited 7/5/2009 1:00 am by roc
thanks man. cool treads.
Roc Marten!
You're responsible for reimbursing me for these. I wouldn't be in this position if it weren't for you. Whaddya think I am, made a money?
Aw, what the heck. Keep your money. These are going to be some great togs!
--jonnieboy
I see by your outfit that you are a cowboyWell actually I see by your personal profile that you like Jazz. Who do you like best these days ? I have been very interested in this person and her trio.http://www.lynnearriale.com/I just never get tired of her work. Of coarse I have thousands of cuts on the pod by others but always enjoy Ms Arriale ! Be ware the iTunes cuts of the album A Long Road Home are messed up but is my favorite album of hers right now. Best to buy a CD of that one.I was all exited about getting a video DVD of her concert(s) but then watched a preview on YouTube. Great music but she gets so into her playing she just sits there at her piano for long periods with her eyes shut in her grove with only her hands moving. DVD kind of like watching cheese age but man what flavor.Just me; you may hate it.To keep this on the woodworking track I wonder if one can turn the mocs into glue when past their usable point or if this is only for hooves and bones etc.Also I had a thought on the bow saw for new people showing interest in making one; be aware that the vertical section between the blade and the cross brace can be used as a handle so that is an area that maybe should not be made too skinny.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 7/5/2009 5:53 pm by roc
roc,
Dang I thought you said greased geese. Never mind.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks, Roc.
Jon
>Questions?
Jimma,
What did you use to finish your saw ?
How did you like working with the canary wood ? Likes/dislikes.
By the way I wrote "No Jimma's is way . . ." as if I was talking to some one else about your work because I thought I was ! I swear on my end it indicated the entry I was responding to was from one of the judges "gavel dudes". Now it says from Jimma.
I may be loosing my mind. Take anything I say with much caution. I may be loosing my grip.
: )
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 6/7/2009 2:56 pm by roc
Hi Jimma,
Thanks for posting your bow saw. It inspired me to make one of my one. I made mine out of some scrap white oak and walnut and used 80lb braided finishing line for the bow. After buying the kit from http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com I was able to complete the saw tonight. I really like the way it feels in my hand and it seems more versatile than my old coping saw.
Mike
Edited 6/22/2009 8:07 pm ET by mvflaim
That bowsaw looks great, Mike! Sounds like all the stuff you bought from those New York guys worked out OK for you, and it looks like their plans. It was fun to make, too, I bet. I haven't used mine a lot yet, but I do have a project that will be a good test. Glad you could get it together OK and it looks terrific. Good sawing!
If it were me I would use Hickory as they suggest.
I love Ash but it is a 'bit' more flexible and for the Bow-Saw, ridgid is better! Yes Hickory bends.. But not as easy as Ash that I use often... Ash a bit easier to work with though and should work satisfactorily...
If I were to make one I would use Beech, then Hickory.
I pretty much agree with you about the domestic species, but I chose canary wood because I like working with it and because I like the way it feels. I'm not sure I'd use it on a larger saw like those older ones that were used for most all heavy sawing, similar to the one Frank Klaus uses. I think beech was a common wood in the "old" times. I have access to a lot of hickory, but I'd rather use it in my smoker than make a saw from it. Thanks for your take on it. Jim
Jimma.. Gee.. Sorry.. REALLY!
I did not realize you already made the Bow Saw. I thought just looking for wood choices to use..
Lovely work.
I know for a fact that I have never, ever... , used Canary Wood. I 'think' I have never even seen it!
Jim,
Very nice bowsaw.
Now I'd like to see you use it to cut dovetails, just like Tage. THis i s a goal of mine, but I might not realize it for a while. Have fun.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hi, Mel! That's one thing I made it for -- dovetails and other things that need some precision and control. I'm currently using it on a carving. Jim
Jim,
Glad to hear you are actually going to use that beautiful bow saw. Over the years you have expanded my mind. I will never forget your "Cucina" sign. I downloaded a photo of it back then. Gorgeous work. Let me know the next time you and your beautiful bride head up to the DC area. The local woodworkers guild had a contest a few weeks ago. The winning piece was a copy of the rocking chair that the guy makes who you apprenticed to. It was beautiful - beyond beautiful. Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Thanks. My carving has been on hold for awhile as I apprenticed under my contractor son doing remodeling of parts of our 45-year-old house. No carving required!
I bought the kits long ago at toolsforworkingwood.com and built one. It was really fun task and am proud of being able to make ww tool that I could hardly find one in my country except in ww museum..LOL
Thanks for sharing
Edited 6/27/2009 11:05 pm by Masrol
Edited 6/27/2009 11:09 pm by Masrol
Here is the picture (mistakenly deleted)....masrolsumairi
Influence by Tage Frid, I made this 11" long bowsaw for dovetailing some years ago. Oak and Jarrah. The blade was made from a bandsaw blade and the brass fittings were shaped from bolts.
View Image
It worked OK, but felt too light for my taste. Prefer my backsaws.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Looks very pleasing and comfortable in the palm. Mine is a bit too heavy for my relativelly small hand.masrolsumairi
Derek -- your bowsaw is very sexy looking. Maybe you could replace the blade with one like they sell at Tools for Working Wood. Theirs is 12 inches, however, but it would allow you turn in the workpiece if your saw would adapt to the longer blade. I enjoy your posts. Thanks for staying involved. Jim/Orlando
Sir!
It worked OK, but felt too light for my taste. Prefer my backsaws.
No wonder! Your Bow Saw had no brass in the final project!
I recognize the design along with some embellishments of your own. Very nice. Do you use it often?What is the full name of the country you are emailing from? Is it Myanmar?
Thanks Jimma.
The design is from TFWW with slight modification. I used once and when the string broke (microphone cord) , I could not find a better replacement...(likes leather strap).
My country is Malaysia but you can easily find many Myanmar people here in Kuala Lumpur.
masrolsumairi
Edited 6/28/2009 12:19 pm by Masrol
Thank you. It's really interesting how this medium has linked the world together, isn't it? I was in Malaysia about a Navy ship, but that is as close as I got. Very similar there to Florida in the summer.
My country is Malaysia
Sir..
I 'think' I read someplace that the Malaysia fishing nets are some of the best made. Sorry, I am not sure why I 'think' I remember this. What do they use for the 'strings' of the fishing nets?
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