I’ve become enamoured of this Lee Valley panel gauge, based on a Stanley No. 84 slitting gauge. But rather than buy one, I’d like to make one, perhaps more like the Stanley than the Lee Valley albeit with a cutting wheel rather than any sort of knife or point.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-gb/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/marking-gauges/110788-lee-valley-panel-gauge?item=15N0601
It would all be easy enough to make apart from the cutting wheel part. Where to get a suitable cutting disc of just under 1″ diameter with a single bevel? I can find plenty of tile cutting wheel cutters of the right size but they all have a double bevel of too steep an angle, as they’re meant for just scoring a surface line, not cutting or slitting wood.
Can anyone point me at a suitable cutting wheel? The Lee Valley spare would be OK except that it has splines on the inside bore, presumably to suit a matching arbor on their panel gauge arm end. ……….
Ideally I’d like something that’s available in the UK or Europe, as buying from the USA or Canada means high postage costs, 20% added to the price (and postage) for sales tax, another 6% on top of that for customs import duty and a £12 carrier charge for processing the sales tax and customs fee paperwork!
Lataxe, bitten by the tool-making bug.
Replies
Can't help with a specific cutting wheel,unfortunately, but my first port of call might be the local supermarket to have a look at their can openers, some of which have circular cutters (might pose the same problem as the tile cutters, though). Diameter might not be 1", but does it need to be precise -- surely a smaller blade would just do more revolutions?
Failing that, could you not grind/file an edge on a washer? Could then probably get inner/outer diameters to suit whatever configuration you want.
Bitten by the tool-making bug myself...just waiting for the glue to dry on a veneer hammer, but have been tinkering about with clamps and various other bits and pieces over the past couple of weeks, inspired by Wearing's excellent "Solution at Hand" from Lost Art Press, a veritable gold mine for 'shop-made tools, gizmos and accessories. I've found that with a bit of ingenuity repurposing parts (and fleabay for an endless assortment of specialist screws, dimensional brass bits, etc) via some gentle metalworking, one can manage most things.
The can opener. I had a look at one the ladywife has in her kitchen drawer and it does have a round cutter blade that looks like it might work. It does have a double bevel but it's a very pointy double bevel.
It's hard to know how significant that would be in making accurate cuts if used in a panel gauge. All the cutting gauges I've come across, including those that use little wheels rather than a knife, have a single sided bevel. Presumably the straight side of the cutter is needed to keep the cut vertical or square to the surface on the workpiece side, with the bevel on the waste side?
But the washer idea sounds a goer. There are 1" diameter penny washers of A2 or stainless steel that have a small central hole that could run on a smooth bolt shaft, with a nut & small washer on the end to clamp the washer in place. I have a belt grinder that could be used to put a good bevel on such a penny washer via a small jig of some kind .....
The cutters in that Lee Valley slitting gauge have a Rockwell hardness of 50 or slightly more. I don't know what the hardness of a stainless steel washer would be but if it wasn't hard enough it would surely be easy enough to harden it with heating and plunging into oil or water .....?
I'll look that up.
The "Solutions at Hand" book is now on my booklist. I didn't realise it contained lots of tool making stuff. Happy, now I am! :-)
Lataxe
For the washer, I was envisaging using a bolt and nut as you describe (a pan head machine screw would be ideal so the head doesn't foul too much), and then mounting it in the drill press, and to use a fixture on the table to offer an abrasive to the spinning washer at the desired bevel angle. As long as the runout on the drill isn't too great, should give a nice, even grind. Could cut the bevel into scrap and stick some paper of various grits on it...and then shove it in a drawer and keep for resharpening down the line. Or if you want to make tools in order to make more tools, could put together a snazzy holder for a stone with adjustable angles of tilt, to generalise the solution for as-yet-unenvisaged future challenges!
Re hardening, I don't know enough about metallurgy to offer an informed opinion on that. But I do think, from a woodworking tool user's perspective, that the demands placed on the thing are hardly going to be huge -- it needs to scribe a crisp line from time to time, and not protest or wander off while doing it, but isn't a chisel or a plane blade. As long as you can keep it sharp relatively easily, surely not too much of a problem? And it's surely not an all day, everyday item like a marking knife where constantly resharpening would be obnoxious. I've seen functional -- and even good looking -- scratch stocks bodged together from who-knows-what, and they are more demanding, since ideally they should be leaving a clean, finish-ready surface.
Come to think of it re metal, the can opener blades might very well suffer from similar problems to hardpoint saws, that as a consumer item they're designed to hold an edge for longer, but not be readily resharpenable. I'm sure you'd get a fair bit of mileage out of one, considering what it's designed for vs your use case, and you could always just replace when it eventually dulls, but might not want to be forced on a great adventure to find a "just right" can opener each time! But I could be talking nonsense, as you could fit my metallurgy knowledge on the back of a 1" penny washer, it's just an afterthought to mull over and dig into if needs be.
Re the bevel on the wheel, yes, I've always understood the idea to be that the flat side should be against the workpiece side, with the bevel eating into the waste. But that imparts a "handedness" to the gauge -- for example, my wheel gauge has its bevel pointing towards the stock, which makes it ideal for marking tenon shoulders and the like, riding along the endgrain. But for a panel gauge, where it would probably be riding along the jointed edge and spanning the desired width of the workpiece, you'd probably want it the other way, with bevel facing out. That said, with a tight enough bevel, it's not going to be a huge problem, I don't think, unless you're really ploughing a groove with the thing (something I confess I do sometimes, as the eyesight isn't getting any better)...but really, if just scratching the surface, the difference would just be a couple of thou, surely?
Lataxe, first you gave us plane making envy and now marking gauge envy. I think the can opener cutter idea is great.
Ecyor,
No need to envy - you can make one too! :-)
I was surprised at how easy it was to make a wooden plane; and how well it works if the details are done carefully. It's also inexpensive, especially if you can find chunks of good wood in the firewood pile.
I confess to being wary of the metal work, mind. That could lead to the buying of, oh, all sorts of not-self-made tools. Consider that Chris Vesper, who has to sell his admittedly superbe tools for loadsamoney just to be able to afford some more machine tools to make them all.
One might need a surface grinder and a milling machine to make the parts to make one's own chisel, for example! And then a long list of other fascinating machines with lots of knobs, levers and a Big Green Button. Them machines are not cheap. I have a catalogue full of them .......
Lataxe
Many wheel cutting are not designed to roll, but are fastened firm to increase accuracy. You rotate the "blade" to get a fresh edge from time to time if needed.
Yes, I believe the Lee Valley one works that way, which is what the splines on the inside of the wheel are for - to lock it in place. Presumably you move it 'round a bit when the cutting part of the circumference gets a blunt.
But a round edge on a cutting gauge seems to work much better than the older traditional pointy blades. A point can dig-in too easily. I have a gubbins that goes in a Veritas router plane with two small pointy knives that cut parallel lines for routing out between before fitting in some banding. The points are prone to dig in if stuck out too far below the router base, which is a nuisance. Two little wheel cutter would work much better, I feel.
Lataxe
Keep the nubbins from rubbin on the gubbins or at the whetstone you'll be scrubbin!
...I might have that backwards.
It looks like the same wheel that many marking gauges use -- except it is several times larger. Lee Valley lists the wheel as 13/16, and they sell them for 7 bucks. 7 bucks for that properly hardened steel wheel, with the internal teeth, is a frikken bargain. I wouldn't bother looking around for a workaround, I'd just buy 3 of those.
John,
You may well be right - the LV wheel is made for the job, after all. I imagine the splines would work to hold it in one position if pushed on to a wooden dowel end, assuming the user doesn't put too much pressure on the blade when slicing.
But the cost would not be that "7 bucks" to moi, since the postage, sales tax, customs duty and handling of the paperwork charge would double or even quadruple that cost, because I live in Blighty, which is still (just) part of Europe. So .....
.....The washer it is. Mr 7579783 has some handy suggestions about how to get the bevel on. And I believe he's right that a good quality steel washer (stainless, probably) will be hard enough in practice to do the cutting of a marked line or even a veneer slice.
Lataxe
I’m not certain what the diameter of the wheel cutter is that you’re looking for. My wife uses a fabric cutter (Fiskars is one brand name). I’m not the best at conversions but I think the replacement wheels- only one side beveled) are just over 30mm. Don’t know if their available on your side of the pond. Seem to be pretty decent steel. Perhaps an idea.
Mr Mudgeon,
That is a very useful suggestion.
The ladywife has an Olfa fabric cutter with a 45MM (7/4") rotary steel cutter. That's too big but they make such fabric cutters with 28mm (just over 1") and 18mm (just under 3/4") as well.
The Olfa cutter wheels are double-bevelled but the bevel is very shallow (i.e. they're long, making a very sharp point along the circular edge). I'll have a look for Fiskar cutters to see if there's a single bevel wheel .... but I suspect that, with such shallow bevels, having a double bevel isn't going to be an issue when marking a line - although it might be if one was slicing a thickish veneer.
The spare wheels are inexpensive. Two Olfa brand 28mm spare cutter wheels for under £5 (about $5-6). There are other off-brand items advertised as very good steel, etc., at around $1 (sold in packs of 12, though).
The Olfa and Fiskar wheels have a three-prong axle hole and the unbranded come with the same fitting or with a plain round hole. I'll be trying one or the other, since they aren't expensive and can be bought here in Blighty postage-free.
Interestingly, there are fabric cutters using these wheels that are configured like WW cutting gauges. Frankly, they look rather better designed than some of the traditional gauges. Most are made of plastic and use a pin as the fence, though. I'm wondering if their design can be reconfigured to suit woodworking .......
Anyone interested in these fabric cutting gubbins and their wheels for marking gauge purposes can see them via these Amazon links:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Olfa-Standard-Rotary-Cutter-28Mm/dp/B07CD62S8T/ref=sr_1_10?crid=1C058JLXZ8O07&dchild=1&keywords=olfa+fabric+cutter&qid=1607245875&sprefix=olfa+fabric+cutter%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-10
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Arteza-Quilting-Rotary-Replacement-Fiskars/dp/B01M16ZDU4/ref=sr_1_4_sspa?crid=34OXVZEVTPN3Y&dchild=1&keywords=olfa+rotary+cutters+for+fabric+blades&qid=1607246009&sprefix=olfa+fabric+cutter+blades%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-4-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExMTRZRjYyNUJNWkpKJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjUyNDc4MlBHTUdQVUs4MUlSSyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTYyMDYwMzE3R1hTNkpDUzRRNiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Olfa-Rotary-Compass-Cutter-Multi-Color/dp/B00BMLG6J0/ref=sr_1_12?crid=1C058JLXZ8O07&dchild=1&keywords=olfa+fabric+cutter&qid=1607245875&sprefix=olfa+fabric+cutter%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-12
Lataxe
Hey Lataxe, how about the wheel from a copper tubing cutter?
MJ,
Ha! Another possibility. But for the moment I've committed to the fabric cutter wheel and sent for some from the Great Interwebbery Emporium.
A measurement of the screen image followed by a bit of scaling-calculation suggests that the arbour hole is 5mm diameter, which will suit both some bolts I have with a smooth section of the shaft at the head end, as well as the drill bit in a hole saw that might make a couple of wooden supporting discs to clamp either side of the fabric cutter wheel. The bolt going through them all would be screwed into one of those deep-thread metal inserts put into the end of the long arm of the panel gauge.
The Lee Valley item has a supporting plastic wheel in line with the cutter wheel, to help stabilise it in use. I'm thinking a small wooden sled would serve the same purpose. It could be part of the handle.
The LV item has a palm-push handle at the cutter end of the gauge arm but I think I might revert to the original Stanley design and have a saw handle style tote there.......
Next decision is: what shape for the arm and for the matching hole in the fence that it goes through?
Then: how to configure the locking knob that goes through the fence to lock the arm in place? I prefer to have a brass strip along the arm and some sort of force-spreading brake shoe under the lock-knob end, to avoid marring the brass strip when the knob's tightened.
*******
I'm just finishing another wooden plane at the moment. It's a small mitre plane rather like the Lee Valley metal one (down-sloping nose and tail) which I'll use as a block plane but mostly as a small shooting plane on the shooting board. It has a 40 degree blade bed and takes a standard Veritas block plane blade, sharpened to 25 degrees plus a 1 degree micro bevel, no back bevel or camber; and used bevel-down.
I also gave the blade the unicorn treatment. I'm hoping this will make the already sharp edge longer-lived. The blade is adjusted with a Veritas "slow" Norris adjuster let into the top of the blade bed.
Lataxe
Try this — https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/conduit-tools/1-inch-emt-replacement-scoring-wheel
M,
I suppose such a cutter wheel might work - although they're double-bevelled with a rather steep bevel angle.
That one you point at is just $7-8 in the USA. In Blighty they want £41 for one! Were I to buy one from the USA and import it, it might well eventually cost £41 too after postage, sales tax, customs duty and all the other additional costs imposed by one lot of rascals and another.
But thanks for the suggestion.
Lataxe
Wow, that hurts to spend that much on shipping! I know I would balk at that too. Not sure how much the real thing is from Lee Valley, but starts to look worth it at those rates.
There are these from Rob Cosman https://robcosman.com/products/rob-cosmans-marking-gauge-cutters-without-rods?variant=7842162344002
Or these that include the rod for $10 more. https://robcosman.com/products/rob-cosmans-marking-gauge-cutters?_pos=3&_sid=cfeb64df7&_ss=r
I’ve personally purchased some of Robs “Cosmanized” Wood River Marking Gauges. They are perfection!
Or buy this and get two extra wheels. To use for your panel gauge. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0887WZLQN/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0887WZLQN&pd_rd_w=tuset&pf_rd_p=7d37a48b-2b1a-4373-8c1a-bdcc5da66be9&pd_rd_wg=x0fJL&pf_rd_r=R3QY7X8QZ3VRJHPCSTJD&pd_rd_r=1a2b7120-804f-4466-b48e-27b1b4ad3368&smid=A1AMFMNPLAZ8D8&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE2OFAxOFVBUkpEMlYmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA3OTc1MjBUMVlEWUMwMlI0NDUmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMTA0MjgxNDFBS0pZU0RXTDMwNUgmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWwmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
Or something like this. There seems to be a few options... https://www.amazon.com/Newkiton-Replacement-Woodworking-Precision-Bearings/dp/B07JYKGQ5M/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Marking+gauge+cutter+wheel&qid=1607283278&s=hi&sr=1-4
Thanks for all the additional cutting wheel suggestions. Many options in the USA, eh? But in Blighty these options are not available; or may be but at a much greater price. We're not called Rip-off Britain for nothing, tha knows! All them middlemen adding their cuts....
Those Newkiton cutting wheels would have been an option .... but Amazon UK sell only the whole Newkiton marking gauge, although it does come with those two spare cutting discs (total £30).
The other options (Cosman et al) aren't available in the UK so I'd have to buy in the USA then pay the large additional costs of importing them to the UK, as with buying from Lee Valley in Canada. Nae gud.
I do wish Lee Valley would get their British importer (Brimarc) to import their whole range instead of just the 10-15% of stuff in the LV catalogue available to us at reasonable (sort of) prices in the UK.
So, I currently have 12 28mm diameter steel discs meant for fabric cutters, These are very thin but also very sharp. To use one in the panel gauge, I'll need to bolster it each side with claspers - perhaps wooden ones I can make with a hole saw, a millimetre or two smaller in diameter and with the same 5mm axle holes so the cutter with claspers will all fit on the 5mm bolt that'll be the axle. These claspers would also stabilise the cutting end of the arm, perhaps?
Watch this space. :-)
Lataxe
I used an old reciprocating saw blade when I made my marking/panel gauge last year.
I didn't do mine round, but made one side rounded. It's like a square with one side rounded, if that makes sense. I'll see if I can find a picture, or take one later today.
It didn't take me too long to make. When I was done shaping and getting it close to sharp, I hardened it with a propane torch and some water. Then I snuck it into the toaster oven. (Shhhh, don't tell the missus!)
It actually worked better than I expected. I've been super happy with it, had fun making it, it didn't cost me anything but a little bit of time, and it kept me from throwing away one more piece of raw material. Reduce, reuse, recycle, right?
I was recently given a "Wheel Marking Gauge Kit" from Taylor Tool W
orks and this maybe the resource you are seeking.
https://taytools.com/
Wheel Marking Gauge Kit with 8 mm Beam, 3 cutters, 2 Brass Inserts and Knurled Thumb Screw
by Taytools
No reviews
$10.99 USD
SKU 775912
2 Piece Set of Replacement Cutters for Taytools Brass Wheel Marking Cutting Gauge
by Taytools
No reviews
Save 10%
Original price$9.99 USD
Current price$8.99 USD
SKU 31172
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