Making kitchen cabinets to fit an old house with interfering window.
prairiescl
| Posted in General Discussion on
Hi all,
My house was built in 1929, before full cabinets were common. The wall with the sink plumbing (bottom in the photo) is the longest, but still only 105″. The wall to the right (in the photo) of that wall has a window, whose frame is only 19.5″ away from the sink wall – the window sill is only 18.75″ away. Standard kitchen base cabinets are 24″ deep and countertops are 25″ deep. The previous owners solved the problem by “fitting” standard cabinets and countertop, which included cutting the window frame and had the countertop extend a few inches in front of the sash – a ham-fisted solution at best. I’m building cabinets, so I can make them whatever size I want, but the sink depth forces the countertop to be standard depth.
How do I combine a line of base cabinets where some are standard depth and others are 6″ shorter? Having all the cabinet faces parallel to the wall means a step at the change, which seems like a good way to bash your kneecap or trip. Having the window-side cabinet face angled would be better in that sense, but may look odd. A curved face might look better, but would be finicky to make drawer faces that fit well.
I’m sure this is a common problem with older houses. Any examples of other solutions, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott
Replies
Not a cabinet solution, BUUUUUT...
Do what you now wish the previous owner had done and change the window. Bring it up to or above the counter height. Once that's done you can layout the whole shebang any way you like.
Pipes can also be moved. Putting the sink under the window would make for a nicer experience in a spot where a lot of time is spent.
This is the best solution.
I will say from personal experience, that isn't always possible. I work in an area that has many older neighborhoods that have historical zoning regulations that would make this all but impossible. I realize that may not be the the OP's situation but it still adds another level of complexity to the project depending upon exterior facade material and being able to match it.
Yes, the bottom of the window is below standard countertop height. Raising the bottom of the window would solve the problem, and I would do that if the exterior were siding, but this house is balloon frame with brick veneer. Finding brick to match requires finding a tear-down that matches - something I've tried to do in the past without success. It's also a job I don't want to tackle.
Hard to see on the blueprint photo I posted, but the sink is under a window on the adjacent wall.
You could make the cabinets as a step-back -- less deep on one end, or both.
You could have the center at regular sink height, and one or both ends stepped down, to go below the window.
You could have the ends curved.
A Wharton Esherick house built about the same time as yours has a round or elliptical counter with the sink in the deepest (wider) part.
With custom cabinets and counters you can do a lot of things.
I'd play with design ideas, but probably would do as MJ suggested and put in a smaller window. Or remove it entirely.
As a professional kitchen designer who on occasion works in houses over 100 years old, I will acknowledge they pose many design challenges when trying to retrofit a modern kitchen in them while still maintaining all the charm that makes them so attractive.
If I understand your situation properly, the drawing is of little help without dimensions and elevations, you have a window that is less than 36" off the floor and less than 26" from the back wall creating a situation where a standard cabinet and countertop would obstruct the window. If I was faced with situation I would use an angled cabinet with a fluted overlay or depending on a customer's preference possibly a split turning, but I would take it a step further and use the same detail at the other end of the cabinet run as well, I'm assuming you intend to wrap around the corner for an L-shape. By having the same detail at both ends of the run it will have better balance and symmetry and look like an intentional design element rather than a cobbled together solution to a problem. While you could incorporate a drawer into such a design IMO it's not worth the aggravation and will look better just having this element full height. By my calculations it would take an 8" filler at a 45° angle to buy you about 5 5/8" you need. Building this into the cabinet structure is better that using an overlay simply because of the additional space required for the overlay. If you opt for a split turning you will need to make sure the profile clears the sill without looking too crowded so something that is thinnest at that height.
I attached photos of a model I made. The first shows the windows at the bottom (north) and right (west), a swing door on the left, a doorway (without door) to the back hall at the top right, and a 6' pass to the breakfast nook (labelled back porch) at the right top. The second photo shows the layout with some pieces in place. Yes, I will wrap around the corner for an L-shape to the stove.
The west window's sill is 32" above the floor, and the north edge of the frame is 19.5" away from the wall. Some friends of mine have a similar layout. They chose to make a vertical step in the countertop so it goes below the bottom of the window frame. They like it, but this small kitchen is already starved for counter space, and a step in the counter breaks up what little counter space is available, making it less useful.
Since the window casing has already been cut, perhaps I can continue the crime and angle the cabinet only a little, making the counter edge line up with the inside of the casing, rather than extending into the sash area as was done before. That said, I think it will still look like a hack-to-fit job.
That's a very small kitchen, with not a lot of counter space... ..a door that swings, blocking a cabinet...
..Just thinking outside the box. Do you need a formal dining room? Could you make the current dining room a large eat-in kitchen and use the current kitchen as an office, reading room other some other quiet room with access to the back porch? (my preferred solution.) ..and repurpose the pantry... (I'll wager that you don't have a lot of closet storage in your home...)
..Or you could you take down the wall separating the kitchen and dining room and make a huge eat-in kitchen. If you're stuck on the current layout, could you turn that swinging door into a pocket door? If your home has undergone a modernization, a new sliding "barn door" might not look out of place and would take up less space.
Could you extend the existing kitchen into the pantry and the enclosed back porch. You'd have more wall space for cabinets, etc. I lived in a home built in 1924 and I opened the pantry to make an L-shaped kitchen for better space utilization.
I take it you see the pantry on the blueprints. I've made some mods since then. I tore down the wall between the pantry and the porch to make a single space as a breakfast nook. I made that door swing out instead of in, and I put in a 6' wide bay window. These things are reflected, albeit poorly, in the other photos. I think that space is best for eating rather than cabinets.
I could remove the Kit-DR swing door.
I had some through the wall AC sleeves in my brick house. When I went with mini splits I was determined to get everything to match as I sealed the openings. In the end the brick is off a bit and the mortar doesn't quite match. Truth is you have to look for the old patches to find them...and you just never do.
Changing out the window seems like what is really needed. Add a couple of corbel bricks and put a flower box in to hide the patch. IMHO you'll be glad you did. You live INSIDE the house after all.
The next block over from me someone painted their house bright purple. The whole house, even the foundation. I've always thought that the people across the street from each other should paint the other person's house, and mow their lawn. They are the ones that spend the most time looking at it.
Every time we drive past a purple house my girl says we should stop to buy weed...claims every last one is owned by potheads.
As far as the bricks are concerned if you can't match it change it. Lots of ways to go. A Dutch weave with a contrasting brick , do something with stone. Steal an idea from the Borabador. If you do it right it can look intentional. The downside is if you like the result too much you'll want to do it to all your other windows. I work with designers a lot. It's difficult to think outside the box sometimes in your own home. You've seen it one way for so long that it's hard to see it some other way. Someone else, someone that thinks about these things, can walk in and suggest something instantly that you never thought about before. Sometimes things can seem monumental and when you do it it turns out to not be that big of a deal. Sometimes it's monumental. When I do something and punk out or cheap out and not do something that looked hard at the time I always regret it later.
Nancy Hiller published a book via Lost Art Press that focuses on kitchen remodels. Probably worth purchasing as it likely has all kinds of useful ideas in it that are applicable for what you are doing.
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Strike one
Wow, your work must be amazing (if so much better than Nancy's!). And you must be a pain to be around.
Admittedly, I like Nancy's work and writing.
Nancy knows more about woodworking and kitchens than Suburbanguy will if he lives to be 200. He has no idea what he's talking about, and a first-class jerk.
My friend installed his cook top in a counter 6 inches lower than norm arguing that it gave him better control while cooking.While you are at it,why are dishwashers installed so low making using them difficult.Someone figured wall ovens were more practical,why not dishwashers?
“[Deleted]”
just fuckin eyeball the measurements and everything will be fine
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