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I’ve got a cabinet job, using excellent cherry veneers, cherry mouldings for everything but the face frames and the door stiles/rails which are to be made from a large supply of hard maple that have already been ripped down and jointed. I was able to get a local paint shop to mix a stain to work on the maple to match the kitchen cabinets (all cherry).
The problem is that it really is not showing much grain, despite the nice figure in the maple. The stain is mostly even, but sometimes a tad blotchy. Is this just the way it’s going to be, or is there a way to bring out the grain? The paint store people said you can’t do much with maple and this dark a stain, and did not recommend any kind of conditioner either.
I’m hoping we can improve on this. It seems a shame to make maple look so boring.
Any thoughts?
MD
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MD,
You probably won't like my "thoughts" so I'll be gentle.
b ;)
There is no way to get Maple to look like Cherry, nada, none, no go. Maple has a totally different grain and density than Cherry. If you want a perfect color match then you will have to stain the Cherry so it's grain is obscured and color matched to the Maple. Which of course obviates it's choice in the first place.
You would have been much better off in using Cherry in the first place or at least have used Birch or Poplar. I've had great success in using both as substitutes for Cherry stained with Min Wax Cherry Wood Finish (#235). I've discussed my technique on this a couple of times, a search in this folder will bring them up, if you are interested.
At this point, my only suggestion would be to apply a film or oil finish on some scrap pieces of the stained Maple to see if that will bring out the grain any. I seriously doubt that it will have an effect on the blotches, other than highlighting them. FWIW.
Dano
*I have successfully imitated cherry by staining maple, but not when used on the same project. When I say cherry, I mean the commercial cherry finish seen on today’s factory furniture, not real aged cherry. The stained maple won’t ever look like exactly like the cherry now, and the difference will only increase as the cherry ages, which it will do fairly quickly. Like Danford, I have used birch as a cherry substitute, but I wasn’t fooling anybody who’s seen real aged cherry, and gave it more than a passing look.
*Rob,I hope that you didn't misunderstand my intentions for using Poplar or Birch as a Cherry substitute. This was(is) only done as a cost savings measure, the clients knew what they were getting. Frankly, in my neck of the woods, Cherry and Birch are so close in price point, I can talk the client into using Cherry. If they can't afford the extra buck or so......Dano
*I appreciate your confirmation of this. Yes, the maple was used as a cost-saving substitute, and poplar had been discussed, as I've used it as poor man's cherry before. They got the maple pretty reasonably, at least the smaller stuff--but paid pretty righteously for the shelving and tops. It was still $2/foot less than cherry, which was high at the pricey lumber yard, and they only had about 1/3 of what was needed in real cherry.I didn't know that maple would lose the grain in the stain. Oh yeah, one more thing--nobody was implying that we could fool anyone here, we knew it wouldn't look like cherry, just wanted a color match, which we've gotten, and were disappointed to lose the grain. Thanks.
*MDI'd use a water based dye instead of a pigment stain. When it's dry, apply a sealer (shellac, thinned topcoat, or sanding sealer). When dry, I'd scuff sand & remove dust. Then I'd make a toner by adding a small amount of stain to a 50/50 mix of finish & thinner, and apply this to even out the color. It will take a couple coats of the toner to get the color you want, but it will work. Whenn dry, apply a couple coats of finish. This process will give you depth of color, minimal blotching, and the ability to fine tune the color matching.Good uck,Bob
*MD. Bob the Boardmans procedure following this message will probably yield a quite good result. The maple won't ever really look like cherry, and as others have noted the cherry will change colour quickly too. Bob is suggesting use of an (aniline?) dye that doesn't hide the grain, followed by a toning procedure to get the colour closer. The glazes and toners often are essentially thin paint that will tend to hide the maple grain, but if used judiciously won't hide it too much. One trick I get up to is to add a spot of spirit/alcohol soluble dye to a spray polish to adjust the colour a bo'hair. Proprietary dyes can be got ready mixed from the makers of your spray polish, assuming that you are going to spray finish that is. ML Campbell are the spray products I use for instance, but other makers have a similar range.Aniline dyes can have a tendency to blotch on maple, so watch out for this if you decide to go with a methodology along the lines Bob suggested. There are techniques for reducing blotching that can help. Experiment a bit and get back here if you need help with the blotching. I'd bet that what the paint place mixed for you was a pigment stain, and heavy on the pigment too! They mixed it with the express purpose of largely occluding the grain. It's a thin paint similar to the toners and glazes mentioned earlier. You can make your own pigment stains from cans of paint. Just thin down the colour you choose with a bunch of the solvent that the paint maker used, mineral spirits, water, whatever.For future reference, Red Alder makes a passably tolerable substitute for American Cherry. In your situation this is the timber I'd have chosen over every other one thus far mentioned in this thread. Much easier to work than hard maple for a start. ;-) I'm also weak at finishing as compared to other furniture making skills, so don't be surprised if someone can give you a better opinion here than mine. Slainte, RJ.
*I was not suggesting that anyone was trying to pass off maple or birch, as cherry, with the intent to deceive someone, I was merely pointing out, that when placed side by side, it is nearly impossible (if not impossible) to replicate the color of real cherry, using another species. I myself have use maple as a substitute for cherry when maple was cheap, and the results were good enough to pass for today’s factory cherry, which is only a facsimile of the real thing. The one time I used birch, was to cut costs, since it was readily available in plywood and solid would at a substantial savings to the real cherry. With experience I have learned that the material represents such a small portion of the finished product cost, that the effort to make something look like something else is a waste of time, results in a substandard job, and really saves nothing in the final analysis.
*Rob,Not a problem. I didn't misunderstand you. Just wanted to clarify my reasons.It's been a good experience. I appreciate the tips. Some great information, you guys are a valuable source.
*i use a laquer based stain and spray it on. it drys fast and you can darken and light areas with a air brush.
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