Replies

1. 
   sawdustmaker | Jul 06, 2004 06:07am | #1

   I was fortunate in that I started my business while I had another job. This other job provided my wife and I with insurance and other benefits, and helped us through the "lean times" monetarily. Most of my business now is from repeat customers or word of mouth. I still keep my other job part time (15 hours per week), while retaining my full benefits.

   I never had much luck with advertising, and it's expensive. Arts and crafts shows are costly as well, and most of the people are looking for small dollar items. Along with constructing cabinets and furniture, I do refinishing and repair work. The repair work got me in the door at some high end hotels and restaurants. That would lead to the occasional book case, table, etc. I did some repair work for moving companies, but that is mainly insurance work, and slow paying (60 to 90 days for some companies). Try some consignment shops.

   Good luck, hang in there if you can.

2. 
   AlbionWood | Jul 06, 2004 07:46am | #2

   How much money do you need to make?  If you just need to make a profit to justify the hobby, that's not too hard.  If you need to make enough to buy groceries, only a little harder.  If you need enough to pay a mortgage, insurance, car payments, food, education, retirement savings, etc... then you need to be very skilled, very hard working and very lucky, all at once.

   I make a little profit, but not enough to live on.  If I had a mortgage payment to make I couldn't do it.  And I have no health insurance...

   "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."  A. Einstein

   http://www.albionworks.net

1. 
   notDusty | Jul 06, 2004 07:59am | #3

                     AlbionWood ,

             AMEN to that, you hit it right on the head , with few words too .

1. 
   macalex | Jul 06, 2004 01:36pm | #4

   FWW has done a few stories on this subject over the years ... There's no magic bullet.

   Except: The guys who do make a real living mostly seem to have a lot more going for them than just woodworking.

   They're also great marketers, or media stars, or gifted designers, or great at pulling a team together ... or they're related to British royalty ... you get the point. Some, very few (think Maloof, Castle) are exceptionally gifted woodworkers. Working harder, getting better, buying more gear ... all are necessary, but somehow they're not sufficient.

   I worked full-time in the UK for nearly 7 years, some time ago. I made half of a living and my wife made the other half. On my own with no kids and no security, I could have survived. But it wouldn't have been a life.

   Don't give it away too soon tho. You might find a formula that works. Mix it with something else, talk to everyone you can find in or near the business, look for some bread and butter stuff that'll pay the bills. You just might be one of the lucky ones.

2. 
   ajm | Jul 06, 2004 02:06pm | #5

   I have a good job, real secure but it just doesnt pay enough. I dont want to work wood full time I just have to make some money to help pay the bills. not to mention helping to justify the $25,000 or so I have invested in this little hobby.

1. 
   Adrian | Jul 06, 2004 03:37pm | #6

   I'll throw this in there for consideration.....there are people out there who ARE trying to make a full time living from this, raise a family, etc., and educate their customers that custom woodworking is expensive because:

   -it takes a lot of equipment

   -we're highly skilled technician/artisans providing items of considerable value and we deserve to make a living..... does a highly skilled cabinetmaker deserve to make the same kind of money as the guy that delivers your mail, say? or not? It's also a lot more dangerous than, say, delivering mail (not picking on mail persons....insert your own occupation if you want).

   -it's a risky business; most of what we make are prototypes.

   All in all, it's a pretty tough business; hours tend to be long, financial returns tend to be lower than in many less skilled occupations. You can make a good living, but it takes discipline and business smarts.

   One of the obstacles faced by all the people who are in the business of making a living from this, is the competition from people doing it on the side, or just starting out.....often, they charge unrealistically low prices, and often, they are killing the professional. You can't really blame the customer; if they can get the same thing, cheaper, why wouldn't they? (if they are really getting the same thing is an open question).

   There is a lot of turnover in the furnituremaking/woodworking world, and IMO it creates an impression that the area is healthier than it is.....what you often see is somebody deciding they're going to be a woodworker.....they set up shop, start making stuff for family and friends.....start working for other people, at lowball prices, telling themselves it's because they're learning, and there is certainly some truth in that.....but they often find, when they need to get serious and start making a living (which means raising prices, sometimes dramatically), they can't....because they're being undercut on everything by the guy down the road that is 'just starting out', and is now the lowball guy. And woodworker A quits because he/she can't make the numbers work.

   It's definitely possible to get out and above that loop....some people move into production woodworking, where they are competing against other shops theoretically charging realistic prices (although lots of the same issues arise for small cabinet shops, etc.)......some are able to define a niche where competition is less fierce, and build a clientele that is willing to pay what they need to make it work....highly recommended if you can do it. But there are a lot of folks trapped in a grey zone where they can't generate enough revenue to sustain a woodworking business, and competition from the lowballers is often a big problem.

   I'm not saying you shouldn't use your skills and your investment in your shop to generate some extra revenue.....not saying that at all. But when pricing work, bear in mind that charging unrealistically low prices hurts you, and others too, and it lessens the true value of the work we do.

   Last comment: I do a project with my second year students....we have several teams, each has to create a virtual woodworking company: choose machines, shop space, etc. decide how much they are going to pay each other, what are the payroll burdens, figure out how many hours they have available in a year to work (minus holidays and all that). They have to know their costs. Then they each have to design and price a project for a customer, using that  information, and prepare a professional drawing and proposal to a client, in a competitive bid situation.......I put it to a real panel of 'civilians' to choose the winning proposal.

    The goal is to teach them how money works in a small woodworking business, because it's essential......they are all, to a person, shocked at what it really costs to produce quality woodwork, even though we have been talking about it since day 1. They may use that information if they start a small business.....if they do, I hope it keeps them from closing the doors after the startup money runs out. If they go to work for someone else, they will know what is ticking away in the background. If they junk a part, for example, the cost of replacing that part isn't the raw costs of the material....it's the labour, material and overhead required to make the first part......plus the labour, material, and overhead required to make the second part, plus the profit lost because they were remaking a part when they should have been making the next part.....because you can never get that time back.

   Anyway, good luck with your venture.

   cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jul 07, 2004 01:30am | #11

   It's always tough to make a living in this game, Adrian. It's probably much easier to earn a good whack  in almost any other line.

   There's always the amateur with little or no knowledge to contend with-- and their prices.  Slainte. RJFurniture

3. 
   CharlieP | Jul 06, 2004 05:13pm | #7

   I concur with the other responses, but here is another thing to consider...you have to decide where you can offer special value. 

   You cannot compete with simple factory made items - a kid's chest of drawers, generic style, even made with real wood, will be cheaper than you can build it. 

   You cannot compete on volume.  It is unlikely that you can make enough small items to sell at a craft show as fast as someone overseas can crank out the candle sticks, shadow boxes, or wooden candy bowls (or whatever) in a factory.  There may be an exception if you use exotic wood or special design...

   You have to decide where you can add value.  Entertainment centers are a pain to build, but are often custom cabinets to fill a specific space, while holding specific equipment.  Kitchen cabinets are boring, but are often custom installations.  If someone calls me and wants a bookcase, it is normally "no sale" after they take a lot of my time, because I cant beat the generic units.  But if someone wants a built in murphy bed, with a custom desk to fit a specific area (my latest commission), I can do a great job for them at a competitive price. 

   ________________________
   Charlie Plesums  Austin, Texas
   http://www.plesums.com/wood

1. 
   ajm | Jul 06, 2004 11:39pm | #10

   custom built-ins and cabinetry is where i hope to end up when I retire (17 years) so some kinda build up to that would be nice. my area is so lacking in professional woodworkers (I dont know of any) that I am not concerned with taking buisness from someone who is trying to support a family. any competitors will most likely be smalltimers just like me. I do know a little bit about small buisness though having failed at 3 previous buisness attempts.

4. 
   robkelly | Jul 06, 2004 08:08pm | #8

   aj, remember the following:

   Q.  What is the difference between a custom woodworker and a large pizza?

   A.   A large pizza can feed a family of four.

5. 
   MichaelPB | Jul 06, 2004 08:09pm | #9

   I agree with much of what is said here, the difficulty of making money in the wood business, the importance of being able to focus your time and be productive, and the ability add value.  The first two I struggle with but I have the third down pretty although I am sure there is a lot of room for improvement.

   With that said, I hope to be profitable next year after two money loosing starting years.  I picked  a niche business, there are lots of companies selling gunstock but I am one of VERY few that specialize in military stocks.  I add value by being the only one that sells them finishes as few have the ability to finish stocks well.  Adding value is a real key to success.

   An important area to add value in is image.  They are not just buying a gunstock, they are buying a stock made by ME.  In everything I do that is seen by my customer base, I project an image of quality, expertise, and craftsmanship.  That image isn't false but it certainly is carefully crafted.  All of my photos are shot against dedicated backgrounds to show both the color and to just simply "look" professional.  I spend time on discussion boards talking about stocks and guns in general.  In a classical woodworking shop, I might donate work to a local museum or some other place to get my work seen.  This is slowly paying off as I am starting to be seen as the "guru" of military gunstocks. 

   I am careful never to show photos of my shop that are not carefully staged.  I want them to think of some old world craftsman working with chisels rather than a noisy dust filled shop with machines and stocks cut from ugly rough wood.

   None of the above works without the real quality in my work so I am not faking anything.  However, to steal a phrase, I AM "managing perceptions"!

   This has slowly paid off, when someone asks a question in my field, my name is mentioned as the "expert" to ask.  I normally hate being called an expert but people want to buy from one so I have worked hard to be thought of as one.

   So, when you present your work, be honest but don't talk yourself down.  You are a proud craftsman, even if your building chipboard garage cabinets.  Think about who you want to target as your client base and what they want and who they want to buy it from.

   Image will not build a reputation, only quality and timely delivery.  It will however get you chosen over another who does the same quality and it will get you inquiries.  Then it is just hard work from there.

   Michael Bush, Stockmaker 

6. 
   mudman | Jul 07, 2004 02:10am | #12

   You weren't very specific about your situation. If you are already in a bind, now is not the time to start new business. For me it seems that it is hard to get into real furniture making, however it is pretty easy to get in the custom cabinetry/ built-in furniture business. Marketing is the key. Prepare a portfolio of some sort and give it to realestate agents, decorators, sippliers, hell give it to your neighbors and friends. I actually slipped cards under windshield wipers at local ritzy shopping centers and that was what gave me those first crucial leads!

   Good luck,

   Mike

   please excuse my spelling.