Mantle and surround- Cherry breastplate planing trouble
Benny1974
| Posted in Wood and Materials on
So I have not really used planes in years, and recently bought a No 5 and No 4 for this project. I have a nice piece of cherry with cathedral grain I want to use for the breastplate over the fireplace. I spent too long today at this with both the Jack and the smoother planes, because no matter which way I go I seem to get tear-out. I sharpened the irons and all, but I can’t seem to eliminate the snipe, or chatter, or whatever it’s called. Does anyone have any tips for dealing with this grain? Is this where a card scraper comes in?
I put some Osmo on it and you can see some of it in the photos. Any pointers (aside from by sandpaper) would be appreciated.
Replies
I am a hand-tool only woodworker and there could be a number of issues:
1) Are your No 4 and 5 old or new? I.e., are you working with old or new irons? The older irons have thinner material and are liable to chatter.
2) Are your irons super sharp? And I mean super sharp.
3) Are you taking very thin shavings?
4) It looks like you have chatter at the beginning of the board. Very common. Are you ensuring that you are starting the toe of your plane flush to the board and not lifting it.
5) Are you starting the cut with the plane slightly skewed to the board? Slightly skewing the plane reduces chatter.
6) Are you planing with the grain? I.e., pith side (core of tree) up, plain with the cathedrals. If the pith side is down, plain against the cathedrals.
Also. I work with cherry a lot. I highly recommend that you take a piece and sand it at 400, 1000, then 2000 grit before using an oil finish. The result is spectacular with no blotching.
Stanley #80 cabinet scraper would be my next pull, especially now that there is a finish on / in it. When it gets REALLY bad I reach for the #112. That's a pretty squirrely board to start on after years away. Are the planes high end or budget models?
Thanks for the response.
1) Stanley 4 and 5 are old. I sanded the bottoms flush and everything is in good shape.
2) I used diamond stones- 400 and 1200 grit to sharpen. I don't currently have a strop.
3)I'm only advancing the iron enough to take thin shavings, and adjusting as needed. I rounded the edges, but sometimes it still gouges in different places.
4) I try to apply pressure to the front of the plane to set it, then the back. But yes, most of it is happening around the cathedral grain at the beginning of the board,
5)I've tried skewing the plane, tried following the arc of the grain, tried traversing in places. I turn the board around for the areas that meet to much resistance.
6)I think the pith is up, but I will double check. By planing with the cathedrals, do you mean following the arc? I had some success with that, but then towards the point of the cathedrals I still get tear out.
Also the center of the cathedrals, at the beginning of the board, is the hardest and is now high compared with the edges.
7) I was reading that sanding mutes the color compared with planing and scraping. I may try it, before I plane this piece too thin. I was hoping to learn good technique
1200 grit isn't nearly fine enough for handplaning. That's likely causing a lot of your chatter.
If you want to stick with dry sharpening, DMT has an 8,000 grit diamond stone, or you can go with an ultrafine ceramic from Spyderco.
Or, get a 4,000/8,000combination waterstone.
I completely agree. You need to hit at least 8,000, especially with those old stanley planes. Sharpening is probably the issue.
I recommend Mike Pekovich's FW video on sharpening plane blades. It is excellent.
It is most likely the case that your blades are not sharp enough. I use the following method with excellent results:
1) 220 water stone to sharpen the micro-bevel. Create a burr on the flat side of the iron (you must establish a burr, otherwise you will not get sharp). You can tell if you have enough of a burr by running a piece of dry paper towel across the flat edge of the blade. If you hear scratching, then you have a burr. If you hear no scratching, then you need to keep sharpening.
2) use 1000, 4000, and then 8000 water stones to hone and polish the micro bevel.
3) Ruler trick - Place thin metal ruler on 8000 water stone; place iron flat side down to remove burr. Use dry paper towel to ensure no scratching sound. Once burr is removed you are sharp.
4) For smoothing I go one step extra and strop the micro-bevel and the back of the plane iron.
If you cannot shave the hairs off of your arm you are not sharp enough and you will get tear out.
Sanding Cherry to 2000 grit effectively burnishes the pores to make sure that you do not get blotching. The colour is slightly muted, but a sun bath for a day or two after oiling makes no difference in colour to my eyes.
Sun bathing cherry is an excellent way to expedite the antiquing/aging process for deeper and richer red cherry.
I'm leaning to what _MJ_ said as the next step. The only other thing I could suggest would be putting a "York pitch" on the blade of your No 4.
Having said that, I work a lot in cherry and even have a dedicated plane with a 55 degree pitch. Sometimes, no matter what I do I end up with some tear out from the hand planes and go to a card scraper to clean it up.
Both are old Stanley's, Type 12 smoother and maybe a bit later model Jack.
I use old Stanleys. Sharpen the blades and skew the plane. That board looks very normal for cherry.
I typed a full response to your post, but it is stuck for some reason awaiting moderation.
I also use older planes. I recently bought a #80 Stanley Cabinet Scraper and use it to reduce chatter and tear out. I follow up with a card scraper. There is a couple of great videos on FWW from Bob Van Dyke and Peter Galbert on how to prepare a card scraper and turn a burr. There is an episode in a video workshop project where P. Lowe explains how to turn a burr on a cabinet scraper. You still should sand afterwards. It sounds like it takes time, but with experience you learn to do it all pretty quickly. A 14 day free trial with Fine Woodworking Unlimited and searching the names above should yield the videos' sites. I highly recommend them.
If you have a block plane (bevel up) hone a secondary bevel of 45 degrees on the iron (assuming a 12° bedding angle). you are looking for an included angle of about 57° . This should work without tear out.
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